cheats allready
 

:evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68C1GoAH2gc

:evil:

No protection via STEAM ???

Apparently the guy is able to connect multiplayer and do his mess without problem :evil::evil::evil:

It's possible in single player,you'll get an instant account ban if you try that online Luthier said, but if that isn't true then the devs better get a hold of it.

I guess the ban of which Luthier was referring to will only be applicaple when the second patch is official.

I wonder however if there is a version check when joining MP. If not I don't see how they will ban ppl when they continue playing unpatched.

Gutted :(

If that is applicable to full switch servers as well, that sucks.

I believe Luthier said they would gather data and do wide spread ban after a bit of time.

So I would think right now tons of people think they are getting away with it and the devs are gathering tons of info to ban them. This info would then most likely be used as a guide on how to catch future cheaters I would think... Kind of like teaching a system how to detect cheaters then have a set of eyeballs to really verify uncertain things.

Lets hope you are right about this. We will know more after the official patch is released.

I'll be laughing my head off if that happens, all the cheaters happily cheating and all the sudden, WHAM, end of story.:grin: :grin:

S!

Cheaters will cheat no matter what. The most clever cheater is not the one seen in that video but a player that adds a few % here and there for example. It is hard then to tell if it is due ping or other things. Some use 3rd party programs outside the game to achieve desired results, like the "see it all" cheat in IL-2 where you could see where other players were etc.

Banning cheaters is a good measure, how to implement it is another issue.

The use the same way as MS uses to ban hacked xboxes. They gather data ,flag the users and then ban them in waves. And Steams policy is the same. You will never get the account re-opened no matter how high you cry or whatever threats you can come up with. Not as long as you did cheat or use any mods in multi-player!
Better think twice before doing any of these things unless you don't care.

Actually, we have no idea how effective the "anti-cheat" stuff is, because no one has been banned yet.

Hopefully, it's extremely effective... time will tell. The wiki says that this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...9a/Mathack.jpg hack is not detectable by it, which makes me wonder about the effectiveness.

But how probable is it to be banned by mistake? And what can one do?

i dont know how it is at the moment, but one time i was cheating in counterstrike 1.6 a few years ago... then i stopped cheating and about one month later i got banned. had to get a new account, but anyway, i had 2 months to cheat... VAC is not fast... its slow

I se nothing unusual with how that 109 was flying. Looks normal to me....LOL!

As much as I want cheaters to be banned, how will modifications be handled for this game? I'm an offline user, so will the game be similar to the current Il-2, or will a modding effort be more coordinated by the developers with tools released...?
Already people have been able to play with the sound-files, which to me isn't a bad thing, but I don't know what the developers will do in order to coordinate these endeavours.

Another question, surely someone banned for cheating wont be prevented from playing single-player, or mp through a 3rd party browser/LAN?

It would be wrong to prevent them using the game they paid for, even if they did cheat online. It would be going too far.

You dont own the game. You agree to pay a fee for using it under their terms. ;)

There really needs to be some kind of system to warn the user if he is attempting to join a server with a disallowed mod. Banning genuine cheaters is a good thing, but an absolute requirement is that nobody is banned for wrong reasons. Also it should be up to the server admins what mods they allow or dont. How stupid would it be to get steam banned from using some sound mod or something that the server admin has said to be ok to use?

Imho I think the RoF approach is quite a good one. You have to start the game with mods on or off. And this goes for server settings.

Looks like the old days when we were on the ZONE...

If I edit a file while mucking around in single player, forget about it and enter multiplayer - is there any warning that I may be doing something wrong?

I feel there's a massive potential for being accidentally banned with such a system. don't get me wrong, I want to stop cheaters entirely - but they definitely need to put some warning in that you may be infringing the rules.

Also - what exactly do they mean by "banning the account"? From the last few years of buying through Steam, I have several hundreds, if not over £1000 worth of games on my steam account. If that all disappears, with "no recourse" to getting it back if I'm innocent... crikey, that's a bloody sobering thought.

I might be wrong - by "account" they might mean playing online multiplayer in CoD, but I strongly suspect that any Steam account accused of cheating will be locked down entirely, and I've heard plenty of nasty stories in the past about people having their Steam accounts locked by mistake, and there's apparently very, very little you can do to unlock them.

I certainly won't be playing MP until there's some proper clarification on what files can/can't be changed, how the ban mechanics work, and hopefully some kind of warning system is in place.

I like that idea in theory, but I don't know much about this stuff, couldn't that help the cheaters to know whether there hack has been detected or not? If there is no warning then they would be more afraid to use the hack.

wow thats a memory and a half .... ago. whats it 10 years or somthing ?

VAC banned accounts are only prohibited from visiting servers with VAC enabled.

VAC banned accounts can still play offline and can still join servers that have elected not to enable VAC.

There are some sick little puppies with sore egos and a vengeful streak that will be posting this sort of stuff for months to come, its their twisted way of making themselves feel useful. :rolleyes:

Why could someone enjoy cheating? where is the challenge?

In a way u can't blame people trying to make the game more playable. It was completely broken when first released.

As much as i dislike cheating, this is a perfect example of defeatist consumer attitude. The only reason things are the way you describe them is that nobody has the money to fund a class action lawsuit to enforce what is actually state consumer law in many countries and relegates all EULAs to junk.

I'm not being aggressive against you, but the law where i live states that what you say should not be applicable to me.

Ban the cheaters from multiplayer sure, but not letting anyone use software they paid for is plain and simple rubbish in my humble opinion. According to Extreme_One it works like this, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed.

In any case, i prefer the IL2 way where banning cheaters was enforced by server admins. This way there's less chance of accidental bans or bans to people who just mod harmless parts of the game. Sure, it's more effort and it doesn't completely shield you from cheaters, but i prefer to be shot down by a UFO a couple of times per month and submit a track to the server admin so that they can ban the cheater than accidentally lose access to multiplayer and being unable to do anything about it for the duration of the sim's life :rolleyes:

All this stuff about "selling a service that we can partially or entirely terminate at our own discretion with no warning and no refund" is plain and utter crap. If they were selling a service they would send me a printed manual or a replacement installation disc if i ever lost my original one. Good luck with that.
What they do is sell a physical product and then interpret parts of it as a service so that they can't be held accountable for anything.

They're not interested in the actual cheating, just interested in proving they can hack the game, in order to prove to themselves that they are extremely clever, and to score points against the developers in their own (twisted) little minds. :rolleyes:

It depends on the terms and conditions you've agreed to. Have you read all the T&C of Steam and Ubisoft for the game? If the terms say that you are paying for a license to use the game, and you lose the right if you modify the game, then why are you so sure that law where you are is different?

I agree with you about having admins do the banning. But I am guessing cheating really wont be a problem in this game. Simmers have a different attitude than the average (other COD game) type person. I would suspect that they would get very bored after awhile, and even then if they took enough time to learn how to get the damn thing off the deck they would be more intrigued to be better.

Thanks for clearing that up for me - I'm sure a quick google would have brought up the info :oops:

That puts my mind to rest somewhat.

If he did that online and cheat protection was on and working he can expect VAC BAN on his account in following weeks. That will prevent him from joing any multiplayer game from that account.

Haha. This is actually great. All this little wankers that were hacking away this last few weeks, thinking COD is a village without dogs, will get a nice surprise, in a few weeks.

Cool.

from the vid it looks like he got into the plane files and did some tweaking with cheat engine and if he had this running in the back ground while online in multi player yes hes been flagged for sure and will get the bann hammer. Cheat engine is very well known with hardcore hackers (homefront, blackops and tons more). i recall back in the day of CFS when they would get in with a modded plane and have like 100 guns and rip ya apart in a split second and you could never shoot them down

Get your priorities straight. Im saying like it is and it is just a game. Therefore I have no problems paying for the right to use the game instead of, wow, OWNING it and the rights to use it any way I want. Yeah, owning a computer game is just so important to you hippies isnt it....

Your general judgment of people based on renting a computer game is just pathetic. Get out of your sofa and do something you forum jockey, if it really is that important to you. BTW, I am being aggressive against you. No need to cowardly disguise anything here.

all "arrrgghhh - ffs, not again!" @ the zone monster


hack cheats? - ban their sorry butt

Because EU consumer law treats software more or less as physical purchases, like a car or a toaster: you buy it, you use it, you can resell it, etc. Local law is above and invalidates any EULA, it's just that none of us can afford to take a publishing house to court over disputes in their EULAs.

However, during the fiasco with the always online Ubisoft copy protection scheme enough people were affected (couldn't connect to the validation servers, so they were locked out of their legally purchased games) that certain officials and members of parliament in Scandinavian countries started looking into it.

Unfortunately, the situation was defused before it could get to courts. And i say unfortunately, because all it takes for this to change is setting a precedent stating that "you can't sell in the EU unless you follow such and such rules" which will benefit the customers. After that, other markets will start demanding the same treatment from software publishers ("why do we have to put up with X while they Europeans don't? i'm boycotting the game/buying a European version/etc") and will eventually get it.


Hahaha, glad to know where you stand. It seems i am doing something by the way, exposing a point of view you dislike to as many people as i can at every opportunity, otherwise it wouldn't be sufficient to get you all riled up. No ill will against you still by the way, you just placed yourself on my "funny angry tantrums" list so thanks for the amusement :-P

On a serious note, if you don't want to own your games and forfeit your basic consumer rights then that's your own right, but don't pretend that forfeiting the protection of the law on a personal level somehow makes you better than the rest or makes your choice applicable to the rest. If a person suddenly decides to sell himself as a slave that doesn't mean slavery is re-instituted for everyone, it's still contrary to the law. It's the same with everything else and like i said in the answer to the previous quote, if Ubi hadn't pulled the plug early on their previous DRM scheme you'd be very surprised at how many "hippies" with legislative powers would push to bring the issue to a final and undisputed resolution that stands against your point of view. So have a nice day and don't pop a blood vessel next time you disagree with someone because you like being treated at a standard less than what the law affords you. All i'm saying is everyone is free to be a masochist as long as they don't try convincing me that whipping is enjoyable, if they do they get on the "funny people" list. :-P

try that with your legally purchased right to drive after your license has been revoked for DUI.


Houses/ server operators just make a condition of service (paid membership) that cheats will locked out...

Anyone familiar with steams VAC - Valve Anti-cheat, will know that it detects and logs file changes and anything tampering with the game and bans within one or two months.
It's random so people won't know what cheat that got them banned, that way it's harder to figure out a way to avoid the detection mechanism.

Only downside is that cheaters can play for up to two months or so..
But it will cost them 45€..

Rip`em to shreds!!!
 

Whatever, I don`t care. I use ONLY vanilla games, I buy ONLY original games for xbox360. Cheaters need drastic measures to be applied to them because the whole community hurts.

And let`s be frank here : they don`t need to put up any kind of warning, since the EULA itself is the warning. You even TRY to fiddle with the game files, you`re toast and well done. Just the way I like it!

A certain quote comes to mind: "Never Argue With A Fool – They Will Drag You Down To Their Level, Then Beat You With Experience!"

You had me baited, fool. Congratulations. ;)

On a serious note, do you have the game?

You pay a fee to be "granted" a license for the privilege of driving. Administered by a lawful authority that of course has the ability to revoke that privilege.

No one is a consumer of licenses.

Come on, you can certainly do better than the cliche defence.
In any case, sorry if i ruffled your feathers intentionally in my previous post, i just got surprised you got so jumpy about matters of personal preference. I'm perfectly happy to retract my previous ironic comments if you can agree that we don't all have to subscribe to one certain preference ;)

To answer your question, i do have the a collector's edition of the sim and i'm enjoying it immensely despite the glitches. I just weighed pros and cons and the sum was a positive so i went ahead and purchased it. That doesn't mean i'm 100% happy with everything neither that i'm going to get my panties in a twist over each and every issue, especially since with the kind of frequent patches and support we're getting it is shaping up to be just fine. I just like to keep things balanced and if i don't like a feature i'll go ahead and ask for an option to turn it off, heck i will even ask the same for features that i happen to like if other people take objection to them. It's only fair that we can all enjoy this the way we prefer and it also ensures a wider appeal and more potential sales for the developers.

I think that the current launch platform was chosen to reach wider audiences (good) and ease the distribution of patches (also good) due to the rushed release, but making things mandatory is always worse than making them optional. I'm not going to start a "make it optional" campaign when there's bigger fish to fry at the moment, it's just that if i don't like something i'm going to ask for check-box to turn it off without having an effect on the ability of others to keep it in use. I'm just not partial to making this the no.1 issue when there are other more important things to take care of, so i keep it on stand-by for when the game is fixed and the major issues are taken care of.

I'm not saying i hate Steam, it has caused me minimal problems thus far, mainly the fact that it keeps reverting to auto-update status everytime i run the game, i have to reset it manually each and every time, plus the annoyance of having to start it up, wait for login, close the advertisement screen, etc.

I just think that Steam will have to facilitate certain customized checks and allowances as far as CoD is concerned (if it doesn't already) to be able to prevent cheating without hampering beneficial 3rd party additions. If we just exchange one set of problems for another then it's no use in the long run, at least if we do have to choose between two sets of issues then let's make it possible for the user to choose on his own.

I'm not panicking over it since i can't really draw conclusions unless i see how things will work out in practice and currently i spent most of my time learning and explaining to others things like CEM, interface and so on. I'm just waiting to see how they will handle things, then i will draw my own conclusions and voice my opinion.

I hope i answered your question to a satisfactory degree.

View > Settings > Interface > Notify me... (bottom of the page) Annoys the buggery out of me as well. Ofc, if your settings are being reset each startup then it's a different matter entirely.

That's what I'm hoping for.

I'm not sure what to say about that to be honest. To put it into an appropriate analogy for the subject matter: spray and pray doesn't work - and generally ends up in friendly fire/civilian casualties.

Man without principles, hypocrite, forum troll, take your pick. I'm gonna have to go with "idiot" though. I will be happy to withdraw this ironic comment if you can agree that making twisted assumptions about people on an internet forum, based on factual one liners is pathetic. ;)

If you'd like to sign here gentlemen,

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/s...n/02258c98.jpg

You have to love the troll.

yeah... that's right


Sven...

I can't find the crayon button to sign with

Hey, you're the one who got all agitated in the first place and even admitted as such. In case you don't remember here is your first post in this useless exchange:

You just seem to be the kind of person who can't stand having their opinion challenged one iota and please do note that i said "seem to be" as i realize there might be a host of different reasons for you getting off the wrong side of the bed. Fine by me, it's your choice, it just doesn't hold much merit if you start things up and then backtrack and play sad panda when people point out what YOU said. If you don't like the way it reflects on you don't say it in the first place, problem solved.

You made no comment on the fact that i did answer your question, the one that you supposedly asked "on a serious note", neither that i made my best to provide ample explanation for what my take on actual topic of the thread is. In short, you sidestepped everything that was actually on topic and persevered on keeping this useless exchange going, i extended the so-called olive branch and you're still going at it undeterred.

My conclusion, and feel free to disagree with it all you like (since a. it's your right to and b. i've lost the ability to care by this point :-P ), is that it just seems you're spoiling for a flamewar and i'm not going to give you that, not out of respect to someone who seemingly lacks the capacity to reciprocate it, just in order not to further derail this topic.

I could use similar language to yours and call you a corporate shill or another suitable, overused and equally stupid cliche to the ones you used, but first of all it's boring and i like to come up with my own lines and second, i find that keeping within the boundaries of "annoyed politeness" is more effective: it infuriates the loud, annoying people just fine, without even having to say stuff that could constitute a banable offence :cool:

I'm just fine stating my point and agreeing to disagree without the need to convince anybody. I don't want, care or need you to subscribe to my point of view, i just like having options to suit everyone including me and you.
What i don't take kindly to is others telling me how i should feel about things or trying to force their opinion on everyone else, so yes, you're going to get called out on it.

You can think that EULAs are cool, i will keep thinking they are customer-hostile, undermining basic consumer rights granted by law and most of all, not legally binding because they are not visible before you buy the product and there's no refund after you open the box 99% of the time.
There's nothing either one of us can do to change each other's mind and thus there's no reason to argue about pros and cons. I don't care to convince you either way, i just maintain the right to openly disagree with you along with other like minded fellows, so that we can maybe advocate an option that will give us what we want without taking away what you want. If you can't grasp (or don't want to) that simplistic bit of fair treatment towards all users of this product then too bad, because i'm done explaining.

Just don't go acting sensitive all of a sudden only because you get called out on casting the first stone by bashing people for having a different opinion. Have a nice day and go fly the sim, or don't and do your best to keep this useless back-and-forth going. It's your choice and apart from a couple of minutes it took me to answer you, it's not my concern in the slightest :-P



Now that i'm done with the distractions, on the actual topic i'd have to agree with this:


...and generally not enough pressure being put on the actual target: the ones who usually get inconvenienced the most are the ones who shouldn't be, while the actual wrong-doers (cheaters, pirates, etc) will most of the times find a work-around just because they actively keep looking for it.

Let's hope that Steam's experience with multiplayer and modded games is enough to facilitate a solution suitable to CoD. I'm not saying it can't/won't and i'm not saying it will 100% succeed either. I don't know, so it's wait and see at this point, i just hope they provide a suitable solution.

the more you take from those who do and give it to those who don't do, the less there will to take because those who do won't do anymore.... then you'll be upset.



not visible? ... what planet are you on?? the EULA has to be clicked on to Agree/ disagree before it will install and warranty information is located there too.

not legally binding? until tested, very binding sorry to say

You jumped on to attack a factual statement. Doesn't matter what opinion or "attitude" I might have, besides the fact that you implied that I personally is a person with a "defeatist consumer attitude". That's how it is. No wall of text on a game forum will change that. Now wake up and smell the coffee. Get over yourself.

Yes, I do get agitated over idiots. I think mankind deserves better than having them walk around on the planet. Or in this case, typing walls of text to relay the simplest of message.

I will point out that 50 pages of hardcore legalese is completely incomprehensible to most people. I used to read EULAs, but when they were taking an hour a pop, and I came out will pretty much no idea what I would be agreeing to, I just quit. For a $50 game, that much time and effort deciphering the contract just is not worth it. I'll probably get burned by it a couple of times (Bioshock, I'm looking at you!) but if they screw me over to many times, I just quit buying, and then where does that leave everybody?

"I just quit buying, and then where does that leave everybody?" running a sim with you watching tele... I should imagine ;)


I only see two word doc pages for the Steam Install Agreement

Pretty sure you were the one to blow this out all proportions. I think Blackdog has a valid point of view that was written well. You on the other hand quickly resorted to name calling which is a sure sign of immaturity when confronted with things one doesn't understand.

Get a grip.

Ah, it was the defeatist thing that got you going? I missed that completely. Maybe because i clearly stated i was not implying that you are personally defeatist (the "not being aggressive against you" part), but that we as a consumer public are by and large willing to make more and more concessions and inconvenience ourselves, while the people who cause the problems make none.

I think i get it now, you saw a quote with your name on it and took my post as personally directed answer despite me stating the contrary.

@ Wolf Rider: As for the EULAs, they should be plastered on top of every game box in the shop shelves so people can see what they'll have to agree to to play a game, then they would hold some weight. But then many people would not probably buy either. See how this goes around in circles? What happens instead is you pick up a game, you pay for it, you put the disc in the tray to install (which means opening the packaging, something that makes it non-returnable and non-refundable in 99% of the cases) and THEN you are presented with the EULA once you run the launcher. Sorry, i pay for my games but i don't respect any such document.

How many of you guys run modded versions of IL2? That's against the EULA too but i don't see many of you considering it such heresy :rolleyes:

Anyway, as usual i'm just arguing a personal viewpoint, feel free to agree or disagree at your own discretion.

@ blackdog...

well that's just it... you don't seem to respect much at all except for what you think is your inalienable right to do whatever it is you want with software you think you own.

there's something about english teachers being pompous... they're all the same :)

I'm not sure if this is more Steam than CloD?

I play MW2 a lot and many times I join servers with Hacks and Mods running. This isn't through choice, it just happens and you can only disconnect.

I wonder how the Servers will be locked down in CloD?

Just asking, cheers, MP

Just a funny story:

There was a guy here in California who had his license mistakenly (DMV admitted as much) revoked but the guy made such a stink about it the DMV decided not to extend this privilege to him for an undetermined period of time (that'll teach him - lol). The guy took the DMV to court where the judge ruled that the state could not withhold the ability of a citizen to drive without just cause, thereby ruling that the privilege to drive is in fact a conditional right to drive which cannot be denied as long as one meets the requirements for qualification.

And, yes, rights can be forfeited ... that's what prisons and gallows are all about.


:D

Zippit you are getting way off topic and the topic is bad enough.

Right isn't really the correct term for it. What you are looking for is equal protection under the law. What that means is that once the legal standards for a license have been set, they must be applied to all people equally. A government cannot simply say that is you meet X, Y, and Z, you can do Thing A, and when you show that you meet X, Y, and Z, turn around and say, well for you, you need to do thing W too, without having already mandated everyone else do thing W too.

With out that equal protection under law, we cease to be a nation of laws, and our lives are held at the whim of whichever official we happen to be dealing with at the moment.

EU consumer law still allows for contracts and terms and conditions, and if you agree to those T&Cs you can be bouned by them. There are all sorts of things that can go into T&Cs - like if you go to a casino and are caught cheating, they take all of your money off you - sounds fine, but if you then go back there later and hand over money for chips, they take your money then ask you to leave, keeping your new money too, because you accept that in the terms & conditions.

Sure you can, a game doesn't cost much and you can take them to the small claims court, represent yourself and pay a £15 (or so) fee. They're hardly going to waste thousands on a legal team if you're in the right.