Central MS FFB2 topic - repair, settings and mods
 

If it doesn't exist yet, I think it's a good idea to have as much info, links to other topics, settings, repairs and possible mods in one topic for our favorite stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztQvK287y04&NR=1

Post moved from original thread:


Ok, just went for some evaluation flights:

I think it's broken.

Ffb comes and goes whenever it likes, sometimes the stick stays ffb free for several seconds.
The ffb itself does feel like you were moving the stick over some tiny knobs or something.
Actually unflyable.

Win7 Problem? I'll give it a try on the xp machine later this afternoon.

**********

Update:

* FF=1 in config
* FF disabled in GUI(seems to disable the "rumble" effect, resistance is still there)
* calibrated stick
* Power light is on, didn't see any flickering or dimming


I guess(and/or hope) it works now the way it should, of course I can't compare.

Should the resistance feel like your were moving soft plastic over the coil of an e-motor?

Hi

For adjusting the tension on a MSFFB2 for Vista/Win7

You can edit an existing ffe file or create a new one and name it accordingly for IL2.

Force feedback files are located in the main IL21946 directory.

EG: Spring adjustment using the "Spring" ffe file.

Open fedit>effect>insert>spring>right click spring2d1>properties

from here you can create the axes timing saturation profiles

I'm not saying its the easiest thing to get your head around at first but you need to experiment with it
You need to get stuck into the program and try various things in there to see how it works :)

It simple and effective once you have spent a few mins with it.

EDIT>>

This file as an example of lowered tension by 50% .

Don't forget to put your default "spring.ffe" somewhere safe whilst testing.

Fedit and test file with backup >> http://www.mediafire.com/?0v99r1lbhhmeblh

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../Capturefe.png

If you are getting intermittent FFB - as in, dropping out and going slack - I would check the IR sensor first. It detects if your hand is actually on the stick and stops all FFB if not.

I'm going to open it.
(exploratory operation, lol)

So far I see only 3 screws in the base, but there must be more - are they covered with the rubber thingies? edit: yes

IR sensor? Cool, where is it supposed to be located? edit: in front of the handle

Guys, i have MSFFB2 but it requires midi port. How can i use it via usb? Midi to usb changer did not work.

Swiss, if you loosen your grip on the handle and allow the ir beam to go between the two small holes ( one at the front of the stick on the base of the grip and one directly above it under the trigger), the FF cuts out. I'd be surprised if the stick has a fault with the IR sensor tbh. If it isn't you, then I'd check the mains power lead, if the light stays on all the time then it's ok. Hope this helps...

Then you're out of luck :( Buy a USB version and keep the other for spare parts. It was already a problem with XP, it's impossible with Vista or 7.

Summary:

No mains lead - Blinking LED - XYZ+Slider pots and buttons still work.

No IR obstruction - Power Save Mode - Dim LED - XYZ+Slider pots & buttons still work.

IR obstruction - Force Enabled - Bright LED

I've had to fix one of mine a couple times because of failing momentary switches by soldering in new ones. This was a few years ago now so my memory is bad but I found the switch type online and by some wierd chance the manufacturer had an outlet that just opened in my city. I just walked in and bought a bunch of them for dirt cheap.

It's a bit tricky putting together the handle once it's apart and the spring can get put in the wrong position which takes the proper resistance out for the "twisty" axis but I didn't bother fixing it because I have rudder pedals and don't need it anyway.

Mine has almost none - at least compared to the X52. :confused:

They do what?



Awesome thread btw, I love you guys for all the info you share. :)

The twist should have at least a bit of resistance and spring back to center easily but as to how it compares to another stick I couldn't tell ya.

The switches are for the trigger and all the other buttons. Forget what they're called or the part number offhand but I have some extras at home. Just that if you find sometimes your keypresses aren't registering on a button or the trigger than it's time to replace them.

Oh man... it is bad to read that. Thanks anyway.

The only way I can get the MSFF2 centering tension is disable FF in the GUI with windows 7 64bit. I don't need the FF effects, but the centering tension is critical. As you already know your hand must cover the sensors on the stick will flying. I also find its best to set the elevators, ailerons, and rudders with a gradual slope from around 30 to 100 in the input section.

Nope. You need a sound card with gameport like Sound Blaster Live than get a driver on the net for gameport leaked By Daniel K and only works with XP.

If I´m not wrong these switches are tactile switches model B5 from Oron, and yes, the handle is a pain to reasamble.

You still can find this great joystick second hand in amazon and ebay. The discontinued production line was one of the bad decisions of Uncle Bill.

Ah, great to hear that. I will try it mate. Could you please send me a link for midiport program?

They were forced to due to patent infringements.

Guess are these http://digiex.net/downloads/download...-daniel_k.html. Seems that Creative was pissed off with the guy and was willing to suit him by the time.

Really!? Well, he should payed the royalties and keep us happy!:rolleyes:

Thank you Mad G, salutes from Turkey.

This thread will be sticky for a couple weeks to allow members to share information about the MSFT FF2, which is still very popular.

Interesting way to solve buttons problems:

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachmen...7&d=1183960945
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachmen...5&d=1184147215

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...t=47596&page=1

See ones with Suncon F-15 and Thrusmaster F16FLCS/F22 PRO grip too.

Sokol1

Is there any way to increase default force effects under windows 7? I've extended my MSFFB2 stick, so the force feedback effects feel much weaker now.

I don't mind opening up the stick to do some hardware modding, but since I don't know much electronics, I am hoping that someone can point me to the right direction.

Any help? Thanks.

Please note that the materials are calculated on certain strength properties that will not withstand greater forces.
Without very heavy modification there is nothing you can do.

how do i activate the buttons for win 7?

which buttons?


extended with?

If you extended the usb lead the 5v power loss would /could affect it, use a powered usb hub (http://www.power-on.co.uk/ProductDet...ProductID=5563) nearer to your stick for better forces rather than messing around inside the sick.

I've extended the shaft with a metal pipe of ~5-6 inches or so.

Nope, I extended the shaft - not the usb wire. Either way, the power for force feedback comes from an AC plug, not usb.

the old software doesn't work with win 7 to assign the buttons on the base

FF gameport/midi kit on OS later than XP/32 - forget it
 

Rakinroll,
Like you I tried to get my old FF Pro-gameport/midi to work on my Windows 7-64bit machine. But, it can't be done.

The ultimate problem is that OSs later than XP 32 bit do not support midi - it's been dropped by MS. The only option left is a USB converter and no one seems to have got them to work.

See my old thread for the midiport program ....

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...448#9971067448


Regards, Tanimbar

Ok now it makes sense, it wasn't clear to me what you meant before.

You have more leverage in the stick so less resistance is felt.

Have you tried editing the "Spring.ffe" in IL2 1946 ?

Yep. I tried, but the strength was already set at max 1000.

I tried to add another spring effect. While this makes the overall force stronger, unfortunately it also increase the 'notches' of the stick (when I move the stick one direction, I can feel soft notches of resistance during motion).

Have you got the other spring effect file?

I would be interested in having a look :)

This is my preference but if you or anyone have better settings or ideas for even more control ... don't hesitate to post them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...co/il2Aile.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...co/IL2Elev.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...co/il2rudd.jpg

I setup my MSFF2 elevators, ailerons, and ailerons.....starting at around 28 with a slight convex curve to 100. This takes away any twitchyness around center, but I'm not sure how it would effect a long extension.

with extension, i run 100 across the board. Formation flying becomes so much easier with the extension. Best mod ever. Aside from getting MSFFB2 of course :)

What do you mean?

You can test it out using fedit.exe. Open the spring.ffe file, and insert another spring effect.

You said you added another Spring effect file, that was notchy, what do you mean "another" ?

Azimech,

I tried your settings, and like them a lot. Thanks. I flew them in a Hurricane and an ME-109. Which leads me to a question. I find the Me-109, from 320-370 kph "bucks". The joystick jumps around as I get to 320, and then quiets down after I get above 370. Is that common? If not, any ideas why it does this?

binky9

I had to do a repair to my trigger switch, so whilst i had the handle in bits, I ran a couple of wires up from the buttons on the stick base into the grip. Here's a couple of pics of the switch placement:

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...1/CIMG0716.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...1/CIMG0717.jpg

Awesome. I was thinking about doing the same thing - how do you like the button positions?

I'm really pleased with the positioning. The thumb button is very slightly beyond the rest position of my thumb so that I have to make a conscious movement forward to use it. This works really well in practice. The second switch falls directly under my middle finger.

Well worth doing! :D

Good idea. I'll do the same.

Well what I've been fearing for some time has finally happened today! With only about a month to go for COD to come out and button 2 on my trusted FFB2 is failing. It hardly works at all any more.

I'll have to reassign cannons etc. to button 3 for the time being.

I had a look at the Omron website for replacement switches but can't tell which ones I need. The ones mentioned in older posts e.g. doesn't seem to exist anymore. Does anyone know what type to get nowadays? Is the button 2 switch the same as the trigger?

I think I'll stick with button 3 for now, I rarely use it and if the trigger fails then I'll try to repair, before replacing them I'll try cleaning them like in the old UBI thread first.

I couldn't live without buttons 3 and 4, I use them to fluently zoom in & out.

Have you tried contact spray? Some dirt or fat might have entered the switch.

Thanks, I don't really want to open it until I have to, which is if button 3 or the trigger fail. Unless you mean spray straight into the gap? I only really use the trigger and button 2 the most.

Button 3 used to be for centering TrackIR, button 4 was for toggle gun-sight view and the hat for zoom in/out and for radiator flaps.

Ever since I got TrackIR 5 and the 6DOF enabled I don't need the toggle for gun sight, I just lean in and the same with zoom.

All axes on 100%. Anything below is too sluggish.

Still using Win XP with SW software... this makes it work no matter what.

http://help.lockergnome.com/windows/...ict447258.html

i saved this off the BBS a while back... i'm guessing it would apply to the FFB2 as well.

------------------------
Microsoft Sidewinder FF Pro Info
Hey guys, my Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro gets a real workout when I play AH - especially the hat switches.

Anyway, the switch that selects right view started dying so I toook it apart to see about replacing them.

Here is the information:

The switches used are Omron 150g actuation tactile jobs. They are available from Digi-Key.

The ones for the hat are Digi-Key part number SW408-ND (Omron # B3F3122) and are $0.36 each (4 required).

The switches for the stick buttons other than the trigger are Digi-Key part number SW401-ND (Omron # B3F1002) and are $0.26 each (3 required).

The trigger switch is Digi-Key part number SW426-ND (Omron B3M6009) and are $0.71 each (1 required).

Swapping out the switches is easy and even though I only had one dying, I replaced all of them. The others would also be long in the tooth so I figured get them all while I had it apart.

I guess it has been about two years since new and with optical encoding, I'm expecting it to last a few more years so I bought extras to swap em out next time one decides to go belly-up.

To disassemble the handle to get to the board that the switches mount on, there are the obvious screws on the right side of the handle. The trigger must be removed before splitting the shell - spread it at the top to disengage the pivots. There is a catch at the bottom that will let go once you release the top. Then there are catches that hold the halves of the handle together I guess to make assembly easier. They let go real easy and if one breaks (one of mine did) it's no biggie as there are others and the screws actually hold the halves together.

Once you split it open, you have access to the circuit board. Just desolder carefully and then reinstall the new switches. Be sure to seat them properly down on the board (they have feet to assure the proper setup) then solder them back in.

You need to have a little soldering skill for this but it's no hill for a climber. I saved myself a new stick (about $100) for about $3 worth of switches and a few minutes of my time.
found it in this forum

~S~

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/i...topic=144521.0

I have a FFB2 usb And I'm trying to edit a specific File ....what I want is to have guns and punch and what not but I want the spring to be constant to center....What I mean is I don't want it to lighten up when slow or landing or in a stall fight etc. Can anyone help with that? Thanks

Sully, I think most of us turn off the return to centre forces and set the sensitivity of the stick to all 100's. It will feel very different to a constant force spring stick but has great advantages for controlling the aircraft, you can fly right up to the point of stall with the wings buffeting and feel that through the stick, useful for 109's and spits. The game already has built in return to centre forces and the M$ one in the original stick software isn't required. When this is switched on you have two return to centre forces applied to the stick and it lessens the feel of control, (felt like mixing cement IIRC!). The first time I turned mine off it was a revelation to me and 'flying' started to match RL accounts and make sense. The controls will go light at certain times, but that's how it is and how you can understand what the plane is doing and hence the advantage of FF. I'd stick with it and relearn to fly with stick forces off. If COD's FM is as hard as Luthier has implied you'll need any edge you can get. Best of luck.

I'm confused, does this stick work with Windows 7 (64 bit)?
I'm going to upgrade in a week or two for COD and I'm worried I won't have a FFB joystick to use.

It does, but:

- you cannot use the software - the forces are not adjustable(only with fedit which is a pita)

- If you use Alt+Tab while in cockpit you will lose FFB. If you respawn it will be back

That's good, I never adjust the forces. I only removed the files from IL2 that stop the shaking when shooting.

I had the same Alt-Tab problem years ago with IL2/FB because of that I never Alt-Tab when flying. I guess they must have fixed it at some point.

Thanks ..been flying with FFB off as of late because I'm having a hard time getting used to the controls going light...they just seem too light....guess I'll just have to get used to it.

What forces are you wanting to edit. spring ?

Try this file

http://www.mediafire.com/?gtmm3s3mkonjj7m

If you open it in FFE you will see how to increase the tension and smooth the notches

Sully, you will have to learn to be very gentle with it at first, just push the stick or pull it with two fingers at first, making sure that the IR beam at the front of the handle is broken or interrupted. If you look at the base of the grip at the front there is a little hole and another directly above it just under the trigger that needs to have something blocking the path at all times when flying, come to think of it this could be why your stick forces keep disappearing or going light.
Also the need to trim constantly will be much more apparent as you get used to the stick. Have fun...

@KG26_Alpha - I was trying to get the spring to hold center tension all the time .. to stop it from going light/limp at slow speed 's .

@jameson - The forces only go light at slow speeds, landing,take off,stall as I guess they should ...I wanted to eliminate that and keep the tension like it feels at 300kph all the time while still getting the other FFB responses. My stick has no IR holes anymore as I've modded it to a X52 Pro FFB2 and never lose it . :cool:

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...a/DSCN1077.jpg

Ahha a XFFB52

As you know with the beam permanently broken the DC servos will be on all the time the sticks powered up.

I'm not sure what you mean by "centre tension all the time" as my MSFFB2 progressively produces resistance as you head to stall point then buffets the stick at stall, the rest is smooth loading of the stick forces as the control surfaces load up when manoeuvring depending on speed and AoA.

Low speed "limpness" is realistic of low resistance as there's less air pressure on the aircraft's control surfaces.

I'll have a look at what you want in FFE, but it seems strange to want high speed at low speed force across the range.

LOL Never thought of that .


I know ...maybe I'm not looking for high speed but something in the middle ... I was messing with the editor but no matter what I do I can't seem to get it. Just a little more/some stiffness/tension at idol .... Thanks for looking into it .


I keep it unplugged unless I'm using it. As I imagine it could wear it out faster.

Thanks again.

Looks like a nice convertion. Stick forces shouldn't be too light on landing, but then again you shouldn't be waving the stick about much on the final run in. Practice is all I can suggest, sorry!

I don't really have a problem with take off or landing I would just prefer a little more resistance in a stall fight ....but I will fly with it on to get used to it ... Thanks

Disable FFB in the the GUI - et voilà, only non-adjusting centering force left.

What GUI ? IL2? I'm using Win 7 so that would be the only place .... If I do that I lose all FFB and thats not what I wanted..no worries I'll get it figured out .....thanks

If you disable FFB in IL2 you won't lose centering force.

I know but I'll lose the guns and buffets ...thats what I'm trying to avoid ....I want constant centering force with Cannon,machine gun, shake,bomb and morter FFB.

I'd love to see a little "how to" presentation on the XFFB52 mod.

How does the X52 handle solidly attach to the MSFFB, and how about the wiring?

This stick looks like the "killer app". Bravo.

Me too!

Ok I'll try ...I don't have many pics of the mod but I'll see what I can do.

OK heres what I did for my X52-MSFFB-Pro

I don't have any pics of the joystick top breakdowns but you should be able to figure them out. You take all of the screws out of the sides of the MMffb2 joystick handle and it will split in two. Disconnect the wires from handle to the main board in the MSFFB2 and you can pull that through and then you should just have the black stub from the base of the joystick Where the joystick handle used to be.
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...msffb2copy.jpg

now in the next pic you'll what it looks like in the base of the x-52pro. It's a bit of a bitch to get the metal shaft and joystick handle away from the base. I broke a few pieces out to make it easier to remove. (I knew I wast going back to this joystick base.) You will see where the joystick handle and toggle switches unplugs from the main board do that and remove the stick. Now remove the main board and the connector board from the base.
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...CN3035copy.jpg

In the next pic you can see where I mounted the main board and connector. Theres enough space there for both.The connector plug that plugs the X52 stick to the throttle is a PS2 type plug I drilled a hole in the side of the FFB2 so just the metal part of the plug went through. I then put a few slivers of double side tape on the edges of the main board and stuck it to the wall to hold it then put some hot glue on the corners to hold it in. I then pushed the plug through into the plug connector board and hot glued the top to hold the board in place and then ran a bead around the outside of the hole at the plug end and it holds nice and firm and you can pop the glue off later if you need to remove the boards
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...CN1087copy.jpg

..you can see in this pic where the hole gets drilled and the bead of glue around it.
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...DSCN1077-1.jpg

About attaching the handles

Depending on the height you want the handle you will have to cut both down a bit if you want in relatively low. The FFB2 is easy it's plastic. The X52 is metal and the wires are in there. For me it seemed like to much of a pain in the ass to take the stick all apart to pull the wires through so I stuck a screw driver in the shaft to protect the wires from the saw then cut one side of the shaft to the halfway mark then the other.
Joining the two can be done all kinds of way's ...the X52 shaft is a little thinner then the FFB2 so I took a drill and drilled out the center of the FFB2 shaft so the X52 shaft could fit in it or close. Well it didn't go as well as planned and the shaft of the FFB2 cracked when I was forcing the x52 in :-x
It worked out though I put two small hose clamps on it and it's solid as a rock. Later I thought about maybe getting a copper or plastic slip coupler for 1/2 plumbing or what ever size is close to put over both shafts and after cutting some slits in so the ends would clamp, hose clamp it in place that way. Once you have it apart you'll see what I mean and I'm sure you'll think of something.

Let me know if anythings not clear...hope it helps someone S~

Thanks for the pics Scully.

I just disassembled my X52 and it was no picnic, I cut the wires near the plug in the base, which helped only a very little bit.

I'm taking my sweet time on this but my plan is to keep the X52 base with its buttons , plugs and circuit boards.
If I lengthen the handle wires about 2 feet with a plugin connection in the middle, I can mount the X52 base next to the HOTAS on the desk and keep the XFFB52 on my lap, which works best for me.

I'm looking at making a metal or plastic ferule to connect the shafts.

I know someone who manufactures industrial adhesives, but he would need to know the materials involved.

Does anyone know what type of plastic the FFB2 is made of?

I don't have the stick you mention, but I would think Rovell might be a place to start.

Funny story. I was fumbling around and grabbed my headphones off the desk. When I did the cord pulled a whole cup of coffee off the desk and onto my MS FF2 while it was on (it was situated on my keyboard roll out tray). It immediately stopped working, the light went out and everything. I was like "OH SHNIZT!" Took it all apart and there was coffee all over the circuits board as well as had shorted out the main power connector. Cleaned it all out, washed the PCB down with alcohol, cleaned all the gears and the gimbals. Put it back together, crossed my fingers, and it's still working like new to this day. There is no finer consumer grade joystick on on the planet in my humble opinion.;)

@woodchuck .....don't forget to post a pick when your done .

Some good stuff here... I have just retired my MSFFB2 stick thatI started using in 2002 when FB came out.. I just broke out my spare that has been sitting in it's box since 2004 .. My FFB stick used to do the same thing .. only it would go to one corner and just stay there... and it only did that on CFS3.. and it does it on FSX as well... which is one reason why I swear off of MS sims.. for me they just don't do it.

That stick is one of the best ever though..

Sully that is a nice little piece of work there.. I just modded my X-52.. but I still use the MSFFB as my flight stick.. the X-52 is a throttle and a button bay.

Interesting mod by Flashman:

I got a 1 foot piece of 3/4 ABS rod for $8.00 at:
Search there for "ABS rod"
http://www.smallparts.com/


Dissassembly of the X52 was a bitch. I drilled out the end of the captured acorn nut on the handle later to ease re-assembly.


I did a lot of whittleing and fileing on the shaft of the MSFFB to remove protuberances and key the X52 shaft into slots.


A friend in the adhesives manufacturing biz did the glueing for me, the best he could tell me about what he used was "MMA".


The wiring and soldering was a fussy job (clean your tip on a damp sponge OFTEN).
The rest of the assembly went pretty easy, and to my suprise everything worked. (*see below)



If I were doing it over:

I'd make the ferole out of Stainless steel not ABS.
I'd shop around for thinner wire than the bulky 22 gage multistrand that I had on hand.


*The lights on the X52 Hotas stoped working, except the power on light which works, as do all the other lights.

The x52 programing software doesn't like what it sees and is confused. (I don't use it anyway)

The 3 mode switch on the stick doesn't seem to do anything without the software.
I think I may be able to fix this by playing with the, now unused, hall sensors in the X52 base.
(try to fool the software into thinking nothing is amiss)

The X52 handle is much heavier and longer that the stock MSFFB handle, add to this the extra legnth of the ferole,
and the stick is a bit top heavy. The FFB motors seem more stressed and the effects somewhat reduced.
When the power switches off it tends to fall heavily to the side stops.
The increased legnth does seem to add a bit more precision though.

The MSFFB base is much heavier than the X52 base.
When you see how flimsy the connection between the X52 shaft and stick is, you won't casually lift the stick up by its handle anymore.

And thanks so much to Sully_pa for the inspiration to try this.

Solved the software problem by pluging in to a different (rear) usb port.
All is working nicely now.

See this in Sukhoi forum some years ago - dont remember the builder name.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/66/mffmig.jpg
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...FvoVKOSr14epKg

M$ FF base + Mig21 (?) grip.

Sokol1

I've had to fix one of mine a couple times because of failing momentary switches by soldering in new ones. This was a few years ago now so my memory is bad but I found the switch type online and by some wierd chance the manufacturer had an outlet that just opened in my city. I just walked in and bought a bunch of them for dirt cheap.


http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang4.jpg
http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang2.jpg
http://www.makemoneymakemoney.net/huang3.jpg

Hi,

I just bought this game and decided to blow the dust from my MS FFB2 and try it but I think it's broken... so I was wondering if anyone had the following problem and knows a solution...

I'm running Windows XP, installed the software, connected the joystick but when I went to test it...I got this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...oes/rudder.jpg

The Rudder bar starts like that and when I twist it to the right, it doesn't reach the end :( In games, the airplanes are always acting a bit crazy due do that, pulling to the left usually.

I'm thinking something broke? I had it inside the box but there was a heavy object on top of it, so maybe it forced something?

Anyway, just wanted to see if any of you guys could help me. Thank you for your time.

P.S. - I've cleaned the sensors like I read here and still nothing.

Well, mr Devil, i donk know the joystick, so dont know what caind of sensors it uses. But it can be something forced in the sensor/pot, (or excess of use) it can also be calibration, or something in the electronics. If calibration,
try some programe to calibrate, instead of using only the windows calibration. The windows calibration "sucks". So, do it manually.
I use 2 programes, but there are more. What i use is freeware: DIview, and Dxtweak2. Just spend some minutes and sure you will understand how the programe works. You will input the nunber you want for center, and also were it starts and were it ends. Even if it doesnt help you, it is a precious tool to work with game controlers.

Thanks for the reply. I guess it really it a sensor damage :( I tried Dxtweak2 and it immediately shows my "Rotation Z" off to the left and although I can tweak it to the center, it never reaches the right side to the end. Damn shame, cause it's a fine joystick. Guessing there's no point in opening it then :(

The rudder pot is in the handle. Tip the stick on it's side to the left and lift off the top half of the grip after removing the five screws in the handle. From memory it's a standard pot with three wires soldered to it. Once you have sourced a replacement it'll only take about half hour max to replace :)

You should be able to reach the other end of values, also using the DXTeak programe. Observe the RAW values at the problematic end and calibrate the black scale to the same value. Changing the pot its not difficult, but finding the spare part is. Besides, the range of the pot should be about 30º and "normal" pots have 270º, so even if you use the correct resistance value, you wont get 100% use in only 30º travel angle. You can allways disconnect pot, extend wires to outside, make a ruder pedall and connect the 3 wires from joystick. In this option, the best way is to use magnetick hall efect sensors, sensivity 5.0
If you need more info, i can tell you were to buy them in Portugal. Currently i am builting a throttle quadrant to the game: 2 pots and 2 hall sensors, with game pad electronic board.

Happy new year! :-D

Saw this the other day at the DCS forum and thought I'd link it here as it maybe the most incredible MSFFB2 mod ever!

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814

Hi all,

This posting is almost a "copy and paste" of this thread that Scarecrow has linked and post it here again to share it with you -because I'm really,really very satisfied with this controller.
-smile-
And most of my inspirations to do something like this I got from this thread!
So I decided it's time to open a account here to be able to answer directly if you have questions .

First a video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB9oy...layer_embedded

(BTW: if you are wondering what it this thing I tilt 90° and use as a collective:
A picture Tale: "Dual Thrust" or "What I did in my Easter Holiday")


Short summary:
I always used a MS-FFB2 for DCS-BlackSchark but I was very unhappy with the lack of buttons on the stick in DCS-a10.

I switched forth and back between the Cougar and the MS-FFB2 - and this was very unsatisfying and I searched for a solution for this lack of button/lack of FFB dilemma...

Finally I found it by digging up this video:
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v16515202T...Cougar+FFB+Mod

And after some testing... (read more about my first steps here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...91#post1304491)
...I was not really satisfied with the power of the FFB.
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/PICT0004.jpg

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/PICT0011.jpg


And after I opened my trusty (btw:8 years old) MS-FFB2 for the first time I saw that it might be is possible to attach a second mechanism to it to double the FFB force - so the extended handle will still be hold in place in every situation.

I also found out when DirectX send a FFB command it will executed by every FFB controller you add.
I found it out by moving my MS-FFB2 and saw that the Logitech FBB-steering wheel turned also in the x-axis the same as the joystick...

So I bought the second MS-FFB2 (at a price I don't dare to tell... the seller didn't know what he was offering... - I gave him 10€ extra in the end...).

When you plug in two MS-FFB2 - they will react in sync to a FFB command.
So I realised that I "only" have to reconnect some wires of the second MS-FFB2 to sync both. - at least in DCS-Simulations.

Nice -isn't it ?!

So here is what I did :) :

Here a some photos of the most important steps with explanation so you get a Idea what I have done.
They are not meant to use as a manual and there is no chronological order (!) - it's just how I did it... ;)
There are also some steps missing (I just didn't took pictures)
Using the methods / circuits / components / constructions as described in this document is entirely at your own risk.
If you damage your PC / Joystick / Keyboard / Yourself by any of the things I wrote down in this document, it’s NOT MY FAULT.

!!!
Snapper reported some problems in IL2 - The both FFB don't work in sync using my method. He will try a different approach using only one FFB circuit board to drive all four motors:
Read more about it here: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3507325

So If you want to build something like this yourself: ask me - and I will try hard to answer! :)

I use a old bass-box of a old 2.1 sound system as casing for the stick.

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/PICT0006.jpg

The dismantled FFB mechanism of both MS-FFB2's

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...asing-fast.jpg

A look inside the casing (bass-) box:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...ougar/box1.jpg

The overall dimensions:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...gar/masure.jpg

Here you can see how I attached the switch-panel (I used a unused part of the saitek throttle quadrant - that I use as a dual-trust controller) :

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00015.jpg

Here is the stick in front of my (also) modified office-chair:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/PICT0013.jpg

The switch-panel that is driven by the buttons of the two MS-FFB2's

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../buttonbox.jpg

Soldering...

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...ar/buttons.jpg

...even more soldering... (I hate this kind of work! :D - but it is very important to do it clean with concentration! )

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00142.jpg


Both FFB mechanism joint together :

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...nginemount.jpg

Link to the Motor-Mountings:
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/2...SHLESS-MOTOREN
They just fit perfect and assure that the gears are already in the right distance!

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00055.jpg

View it from each side:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00034.jpg

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00042.jpg

The baseplates came in handy... :

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00073.jpg

How I solved the "no more room for tools left inside the box" problem:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...gar/klett1.jpg

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...gar/klett2.jpg

Here you can see what holds every thing in "balance" and helps the motors to hold the heavy stick in place :

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/counterw.jpg

Tip how to calculate the needed counterweight:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...ar/balance.jpg

That is tight....and chaotic! :D
(don't worry... - I haver already taped everything together and the gears are not distributed by the wires - but don't have a picture.)

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00132.jpg

almost forgot ....

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00045.jpg

But It just fitted !!! ( the controller board of the TM-Cougar is behind the wooden plate in the middle)
All held reliable together by Velcro!
From the board goes a 5-pin cable through the FFB mechanics, to the s-shaped tube, into the metal joint of the TM-Cougar that connects to the cougar grip.

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/.../PICT00056.jpg

Scrapyard ...!:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...r/PICT0001.jpg


Very Important thing:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...cougar/top.jpg


Very important but isn't shown:

To make both MS-FFB work together in sync you have to mirror the X and Y axis of the second (the lower one) FFB-Mechanism.
That means you will have to swap the cables for both potentiometers and also swap the cables for both motors. (what is connected to + has to be connected to the - ).

Potis for X/Y axis : swap the brown and the orange wire(leave the red one as it is) and also connect x to y and vice versa.
- do the same with the wires for the motors.

And I also extended every wire so I could connect everything back together in the end.
I also used hot-glue/lock-tight on every screw/nut - so It can't get loose when the motors vibrate.

The controller- boards are simply hold by hook and loop fastener sticky-pads - so It is easy to maintain (If needed) and so it was easy to put them inside the box. As you can see - there is no more room left (not even a screwdriver ) - so Velcro was the best and only solution.

In DCS I only have asigned the x/y axis of the upper MS-FFB2.

Edit:
Before this question(s) arise again I will post a PM conversation:

That's a nice project :)

There is some great stuff in here..

Can anyone from TD possibly fix the bug that makes you loose your FFB if you Win Key or Alt Tab out of the sim? I do not use FFB in the sim because of this. I prefer to just have the stick tension rather than the whole FFB effect (ie gunshake etc.. ) and if you turn off FFB in the sim you still get the stick tension FFB which IMO is better than any spring, you just don't get the other FFB effects like buffet etc..

As it is now if you turn on FFB in the sim you get the full FFB effect. Gunshake, stall shake etc .. and the normal stick tension that comes when you block the sensor.. but if for any reason your sim minimizes .. when you bring it back you completely loose your stick tension forces. The Gunshake and stall shake is still there but the stick tension is completely gone making it very difficult to fly. IIRC it wasn't always like this. As I said now if you turn off FFB in the sim you will not get the gunshake and stall shake (naturally since you turned off FFB) but you will get full stick tension and it will remain even if you minimize he window and bring it back up. You will also still get tactile input from the sim in that if say for instance you have a damaged wing.. you will feel the difference in responsiveness from one side to the other .. you just wont feel the other FFB effects (again naturally because you turned them off..) ..

So it seems the sim is talking to the stick with input whether you have FFB selected or not .. but for some reason, if FFB IS selected as soon as the sim minimizes and comes back you loose the FFB stick tension only. All the other FFB effects are still there. Also .. while the sim is minimized and you are at your desktop .. you will still have stick tension .. it is only when you bring the sim back up to the screen that you loose the stick tension. It still does this in 4.11 ..

Perhaps if you guys could look at the code you can find a solution to this.. I am sure there are dozens of FFB users who would be grateful. I know I would .. If this was fixed I could used FF Edit to turn down the gunshake forces to a minumum.. but leave all the flight forces in tact..

Seconded.

Thirded.

Peter_P, I Love your controller! If you have more info on how to drive 4 motors with one board, I hope you will post it in this thread. In the mean time I'm gonna think about buying an extra MS-FFB2 and start planning on building my own. Thanks!!

I still don't understand! How do you turn off return to center forces?

Just enable FF in the input section in IL2. Unless I understood him wrong, that is what he is referring to. Then on the ground the stick is more or less dead = no return to center. Only when you take off and gain some speed.

So in conf. ini FF needs to be 0 and in game Forcefeedback light should be on or off?

1 = light on in the game. Thats what I have. There is one downside to this, and that is losing FF every time you alt-tab out of the game.

...and, as result you'll have to respwan to make it work again.