Newb
 

Hey guys im new to this forum. Been playing Birds of Prey with the fellas on my PS3 but i was wondering how the PC Il2-Sturmovik games are? And if i decided to get one which i should get and on important thing are there P38 Lightnings cause it nearly made me cry when BoP didnt have them

There is only one game IL2_1946 you need to buy it includes all earlier variants, you should patch up to version 4.09m as soon as you install it and yes it includes several variants of the P38.

How are the game mechanics and graphics? I use to play janes Combat Flight Simulator always liked that.

Its a 10 year old sim so has its limitations, but its still being improved.

In terms of mechanics its still currently the best combat flight sim around and vastly better than Janes ever was.

As for graphics, depends on the aircraft skinner and map but it can get quite good for an old sim.

One of my 73 sqdn gladiators:

http://www.mission4today.com/uploads...7/4472_73d.jpg

Here is one of Kristorf's screenshots of his new spitfire skin copied from the screenshots thread above. The terrain looks like the Slovakia Summer map provided with patch 4.09m.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...torf/MkIb3.jpg

its not an like birds of prey, it takes a lot of practice to get good at 1946, its more of a simulator, you can't just hop into it and fly, each plane has its own unique flight charicteristics, and it takes a long time to get the hang of'em, then you need to get to know the online... community, who the aces are, who the up-and-comers are, that kinda thing, so then you can learn how they fly so you can plan on how your gonna fight them later :P... or in my case... most of the time its choose a different server, rather than fight them... if your ever in a server with a lot of dudes that are in the same squad and your not on the same team, in a squad or on teamspeak... just find a new server.. they can and will camp you on takeoff... well thats pretty much the good and the bad of IL2...

I've been playing this game 9 years now and I'm still learning new stuff in IL2 every day, and there's always someone better...

some more general info:
there's 5 or 6 different servers you can play on that always have people in them, the difficulty and the timezones people use the servers varies, but there's always a populated server to join, i think some of the servers allow 64+ players, and they do max out during peak hours.

http://serv32.enterupload.com/i/00249/9gxpjhcciane.jpg

KJWrite

I certainly hope you take the plunge and get yourself a copy of Il2 1946. If you like BOP you will certainly like IL21946 as it has so much more to offer.

I had a chance to fly the BOP Demo on my PC just to see what it was all about. I flew in Simulation mode and I can assure you it's not that much different than IL2 in terms of FM. There are a few differences but nothing unmanageble. There will be a learning curve but coming from BOP it's not as big as you think.

You will take a step back in terms of graphics however I think there are plenty of places where IL2 still holds its own against any modern sim.

Again I hope you pick it up. It's clearly the king of all WWII Simulations.

Im really considering it. Ive been playing flight sims since my Dad introduced me to Chuck yeager Air to Air combat on original DOS file( I was 6 and was blowing Bf-109's and FW-190s out of the sky). Once i hit higher grades mainly 4th-7th I played the janes series of USAF and Combat Flight Simulator. hardest part for me will being able to identify targets with out a lock on, but im under the assumption that its like that for everyone at first. I will strive to be the best P-38 pilot the likes of which most new people have ever seen. The Fork Tail Devil will rain supreme! Hopefully my joystick still works Its one of the older Sidewinder Pro sticks so i feel confident. Is there anyone good at the p38 like really good?

I can shoot anything down with it if that what you mean.

I think you'll like the IL-2 P-38, kjwright. Handled properly, it is a killer in the air, and at ground attack too. You won't be able to turn fight with it, particularly at low altitude, so you need to learn 'zoom and boom' tactics. The contrarotating props make handling easy, as does the trike undercarriage. It handles pretty well on one engine too. About the only thing that catches people out is it's high-speed dive characteristics - fly too fast and you'll never pull out - just like the real thing...

If you only ever fly the P-38, expect an unpleasant surprise if you eventually try something with only one prop: IL-2 models torque and gyroscopic effects more realistically than most sims, and this takes getting used to.

I'll see if I can find any handling notes for the P-38, for you, but a couple of suggestions to start with:

(A) Don't carry more fuel than you need - it handles better at low weight, like any fighter.

(b) The P-38 J VNE is 820 Km/h (indicated airspeed), P-38 L is 880 Km/h. Dive any faster and you are almost certainly going to have something nasty happen, very soon. In practice this means that you should start to pull out/throttle back well before you reach these speed. The P-38 L has a dive recovery brake, which helps, but you then risk blackout - IL-2 models that too.

I bought IL1946 having heard so much about it playing BOP on Xbox. I wished I had bought it years ago! At first I thought the graphics looked dated but in many repects I now prefer the clean crisp rendering without that grainy atmospheric ambience that BOP has. It's a lot more difficult that's for sure but you can adjust the level of difficulty to your own preference without being confined to just three difficulty settings as on BOP. There is a hell of a lot to learn but I am absolutely hooked on it. The campaigns are so much better and, if you don't use Time Skip, some missions will take a good hour or so to complete. The only downside is that you won't experience the chat and banter like you do on PS3 (if you can find a game that is!), the upside is that you won't have any problems getting an on-line game (getting a kill is the exception....:grin:) . My advice is to get it but be prepared to be a IL1946 junkie......!

There is actually a p38 thread running at the moment over at ubizoo:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...6291076078/p/1

Though as usual over there the thread gets way off topic at times.

One thing to note about the p38 online, the twins are worth twice the points online for a kill so you will get a lot of attention from the blue side :D

I've not been able to find any handling notes for the P-38, though you will do ok if you just keep the airspeed up in combat, and don't get suckered into a turning fight.

You might find the pilots' manual for the real thing of interest: download here - http://aafcollection.info/items/deta...1!title!up!100. Though the sim doesn't model everything, you'll maybe get a few clues about how to make the best of the P-38, and maybe appreciate it a bit more too.

Hi kjwright,

You can take a look at this original training film for the P38.
Even if IL2 doesn't model everything as Andy said, it might familarize you with the plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq_2UmiCoJk

Hope this helps, and welcome to the IL2 world :cool:

cheers
Schallmoser

Nice to see that some people have actually moved from BOP to Il-2, the movement has been, I think, mainly the opposite mostly!

The P-38 is a real killer in the pacific front, being faster than anything the Japs have, except Ki-84 and J2M, that are, in realistic scenarios, limited to Home island defense mostly.

P-38 is not so good against its Luftwaffe opponents, remember that every 109 WILL give you hard time in a dogfight, as do 190s. USAAF, having early on nothing better, just had to stick with the P-38, before P-51 and P-47s with multiple droptanks. Remember that you are faster or as fast as 109s, so you dont usually have to fight them if they cant dive to you. But remember that rocket and bomb racks slow you down...

If you can get a 190 slow down, you can fight and win one, however online the 190 pilots often tend to know their machine inside out, and might still come on top. Dont let them use their superior roll and kill you early.

And as with every aircraft, never be alone, work together, attack from advantage only and fear the death, and you shall become fearsome! ;)

In my experience, most people who flew IL2 and gave WoP (~BoP) a try for a few days, and then started to wait for WoP Dev's promises to come to life. They posted on WoP forums about its patches and what need to be done, but returned to fly to Il2 (I was one of them). Now, patches no longer appear, WoP forums have dried up, most people have forgotten about it and carry on with IL2/RoF.

IL2 is FAR more advanced in damage modeling when compared to WoP/BoP, almost each kill is different (or it feels like it anyway) - chunks of planes are blown off, wounded planes stream smokes from different areas, oil is leaking etc. Exact part that was shot at becomes engulfed in flames (fuel tanks, engines, ammo storages). Wounded planes behave and sound completely different and exactly in accordance to the damage sustained.

This makes IL2 air-combat much more alive than the generic mega-flameout of WOP/BOP.

IL2 sounds BLOW AWAY the pathetic electric shaver attempt of WOP/BOP.

Campaigns/missions/ online play - once again IL2 humiliates WOP/BOP.

IL2 FM is not better by the same margin, but still significantly better- planes shudder at high angles of attack, snap rolls and stalling behavior are more alive...

Graphics wise- IL2 is no BOP, but still is beautiful looking. Its water is nicer than BoP's...

IL2 rules and is one of the greatest sims/games ever!:) THE greatest as far as I am concerned (although far from perfect:)

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...rsch1/p38m.jpg

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...h1/20b226a.jpg

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...howcenter3.jpg

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...4924062010.jpg

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...0090-23-47.jpg

Not my photos - S! to all of their makers!

Here is a great resource for all armchair pilots, newb or otherwise; http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/main.html While the site is a business and they charge for the disks, there is a bunch of free content (including the vid posted earlier). I've learned a lot from watching these vids and reading the pdf's from here. It's an amazing testament to the historical accuracy built into IL2, that studying the real techniques and tactics used with the real aircraft is usually the best way to learn how they work in the game (The simplifications and imperfections being a given)

Wow some enthusiastic pilots. I like this alot. Ill proably wait alittle like a week or so then get the game.What other planes do you guys fly. Im sure there are Squadrons for the Luftwaffe, USSR, USAAF, Royal Airforce and what not. I just think the P-38 is a well rounded fighter over all

Favorite planes. p38, p47, p51, HellCat, Hurricane, Tempest, Spitfire, Corsair, Fw190, BF109, Also big fan of p61 black widow and the A20/B25's set up for anti-shipping and ground attack

All of them apart from p61 are present in IL2 and I love to fly them too:) P39 Airacobra, LA5fn, Il2, Zero, Me-262 Shwalbe, Yak9, I16, Bf110, Ju 87 are my other favs. But, the beauty of Il2 is that eventually people try out missions/campaigns for lesser known craft like Fokker XXI, Gladiator, Buffalo etc etc etc - they are all great fun in Il2! PLus, even the "big names" have lots of variants represented and look and feel different to each other - the number of planes is almost a distraction in IL2:)

The P38 is a fun fighter and is over all my favorite Fighter mainly for its looks. ive tried to fly it a few times to dogfight bots....I suck w/ that thing haha. Its a good Anti Bomber plane, but for me ground attack usually ends up in the only thing exploding on the ground is me =P

I've flown the il2 p-38 quite a bit, it is great flying aircraft in il2. Very stable, gun range is very good due to them being mounted on the nose, can make very long distance shots because of the lack of convergence. The 38 can also turn very tightly, use combat flaps and down throttle the inner engine on the turn, can out-turn most fighters save for the super-light single seaters. Very nice flying characteristics, just watch out for steep dives in the J model, they will result in compressibility and are had to recover from, in the L just pop the dive brakes and you're good to go. The 38 is easier to land and taxi than most too, and like has been said it has good speed against most Japanese planes, but is in tough against faster Luftwaffe aircraft. It has a good ceiling though and like most of the USAAF planes is very good at altitude.
The biggest problem with the 38 is that it is a big target, and aiming at a P-38 is easier than other planes due to the sheer size of the plane. IMHO its one of the best designed and best flying planes (in il2), but like the other twins is an easier target.

So how does the P-38 stack up in competition compered to other fighters. same with the P-47. Now I know that the twin boom design does present a bigger target, but even the show Dogfights showed what an experienced pilot can do with a P-38. Also I understand that the P-47 was called the jug for a reason. Its a huge aircraft with lots of weight behind it. It does carry 2 more .50 cal mgs then the mustangs aswell as alittle more armor.

I'd not put to much credence on TV documentaries about dogfighting. The reality was that the safest way to shoot someone down was to come in fast, and fill him with holes before he knew you were around. Evenly-matched 'jousts' were rare, and not something any rational pilot would want to get engaged in. Neither the P-38 nor the P-47 are sensible planes for circling fights, unless you are at high altitude. In any case, it's no good looking for a 'killer plane' - it is only as good as the pilot flying it. If you really want to learn how to dogfight, you are better off learning in an inferior aircraft - unlike for real pilots, a smoking crater is a learning experience in a sim.

Haven't played online in ages but my hunch is in late war servers a good pilot in a Spit 25lb or Dora will both probably dominate.

But as always depends more on the pilot than the ride.

Those american planes only work well when flown 10 to 1 or something like that!





"Duck and cover :-D"

thats why most German pilots obeyed Richthofen rules and only attacked when they had the advantage and could win

to be honest you give me a flight of 4 P-51D and ill take on 9 109's, i look at this way if there are more then you then me. that means i have pick of targets to shoot at. You know A "target rich environment".

well the P38 is a really good attack platform, if you can keep it on the attack... otherwise get a P51 or spitty wingman to keep its six clear (cause it has a big ass) and its unstoppable (assuming you know exactly how to fly it). its main point is excellent acceleration and a very good climb rate in a step climb.

the P47 on the other hand is a good solo fighter, u don't do turn fights with it, you keep ur altitude, its got the best diving ability in the game (next to the DO [push prop german plane]), and at altitude its really fast and agile despite its size, just don't get low and slow with it, the best manuver is a powerdive, 4000m to 700m it'll reach speeds of 880-900km/h, when you pull out of the dive, do it slowly, and then point your nose up on about an 70-80 degree angle, u'll climb right back up to 4000m.

against a dora the p47 and the p38 couldn't win in a streight line race, u'd have to stall fight'em or run towards some friendlys and get help, but remember to keep your altitude, the higher you are the better your plane performs... thats the difference between the dora and the american planes, the dora works better down low.

as for the spitfire... just keep your energy up (altitude) stay above him and you won't have any problems...

and the P51C or the mustang mkIII are much faster, and a bit more manuverable than the p51d, so i'd reccomend flying those over flying the D models, but if you must fly the D, then the 5NT is better, much lighter, though not as tough, its not as touchy. when you get better at flying the P51, try out the B model, its my favorite one, its slower, but much more agile, and super fun to fly since it doesn't have the same stall tendency as the C and D models

I'd recommend you, too, to first learn the basics of the game... Because no matter how good plane you fly, online, the Il-2 is not an easy game, even against complete greentags.

The difference between Il-2 and many other WW2 flight sims published before(as well as some TV "documentaries" and especially movies, is that this time the "bad guys" can fight back. The best prop fighter series of the game from 40-41 is the Bf 109. 42-43 its the Fw 190. 44-45 is arguable, but both Bf 109 and especially Fw 190 are still very high in the list. They are never easy opponents, anything but "target drones" you can just blast out of the sky one hand tied behind flying inverted in a P-51, to exaggerate a little.

The real-life advantages of the American machines is mostly their very long range, meaning they dont have to fly back to their base after just an hour of flying at mil power, unlike 109, 190, Spitfire and most Russian designs(especially La-5/7 had very short range). Gaming wise they are usually pretty fast, not always in top speed but cruising speed, except the P-40 which is a bit of a pig. P-47, any version, has hard time in any kind of dogfight at alts below 6000m (about 18,000ft), and while it can take a lot of hits, its not a good tactic to take them from any bad guy, and the first burst might still kill you, and the quad cannons of Fw 190 actually usually do exactly that. At high alts, if you keep your speed up, you can outmaneuver most Fw 190s(dont try the Dora, or Fw 190 D-9) and even sometimes 109s, that will lack elevator authority there and burn out their speed at just slightest maneuvers. P-51 is as fast or faster than German aircraft, usually much better choice than P-47, but even it cant outclimb 109s, out-roll 190s and depending on altitude it might still be slower, ie. D-9 is faster down low and 109 K-4 up high. Personally I think the best prop fighter of the game are Mustang 3 and P-51-D, but there are lots of situations where other types do considerably better, generally best doesnt mean best in everything, ie. they still lack the punch(armament) of many other designs.

Its all down to what your machine can do, against what you're up against, in the situation you have, at what altitude. And knowing what happens around you. Its called situational awareness, or SA, and is the very most important skill for a fighter pilot right after basic flying maneuvers and skills. Of course you can still fail even if you had every kind of advantage on your side, but SA allows you to avoid such situations that someone with better "flying skills" might survive.

You will most likely very soon find out why P-38 was moved to assault and close air support in Europe as soon as enough P-51s were around together with later P-47 models that could carry enough drop tanks. :rolleyes:

But dont give up early, remember that some of the guys you will have to fight have played flight sims since 1990s, and at least 40%-ish have at least 2 years. If you can keep up the first 6 months, you will have learned a lot and the learning curve is not that steep anymore. But its so long that no one has yet made it to the top, so under right conditions, anyone(or anything) is beatable. ;)

Finding a good group to play with, or even 1-2 people, helps too. See you in HyperLobby.

Yes, having a couple of semi-regular wingmen makes a ton of difference.

First of all let me say that i don't fly online much, in fact i usually do it for a couple of months and then disappear for an equal amount of time. Of course, that means i forget a lot of stuff and each time i get back to it, it usually takes me between 8 and 12 hours of flying time to get back to where i was (which isn't something extraordinady, i usually hover around a 50/50 kill/death ratio).
Couple that with some DSL problems and serving a year as a conscript AA gunner in the local air force and i haven't flown online for a year. Well, at least i got to fire twin 20mm rheinmetal guns for real :grin:

Nevertheless, in all of my on-and-off online flying, what stood out the most is the importance of a wingman that you can work well with (actually, them being more experienced it was usually me who was the wingman). And in order to find people to fly with and enjoy the sim, it pays off if you are an honest fellow.
What i usually did was join teamspeak, be up-front about my lack of skill and just say "i'll tag along with you guys if you don't mind, don't worry, i'm not going to be a burden". Sure enough, people didn't mind and i got to witness how some very good virtual pilots did their thing. Granted, i'm not a stranger to flight sims, in fact i've been simming since 1992 on my first PC, but it's a totally different beast to be flying online against people with massive amounts of stick time.

Initially, i was just following them from a distance of 500m-1km and letting them do the attacking and the fancy stuff. If they got in a turn fight i zoomed up and to the side a little, settled in a nice turn and watched the fight, if they boom and zoomed i just followed them while staying a bit higher than them. That's all i did, but if someone managed to get on their tails i was in a perfect position to attack him and clear their tail. Sooner or later, i managed to get a couple of kills this way. Now, this might seem fairly basic and maybe even boring stuff, but you'll be surprised how much your handling improves just by following a competent pilot.

See, by following them you are essentially putting your aircraft through the same maneuvers as they are. After 3-4 hours of this you realize that you can suddenly and magically fly in a way that you couldn't before, more efficient, you don't burn off so much speed in maneuvers and so on. The explanation is of course that your muscle memory sets in and you do a small part of what the experienced guys do without even thinking about it.

After a few evenings you'll have picked up who the regulars of the server are in your timezone. You will have cleared their tails a couple of times, you will have acted as bait a couple more and generally people will be thinking "hey, that newbie is a decent fellow and a team oriented player who cares more about out team winning the map than he cares about his own stats and stealing kills from others". That's the important qualities, skill comes not only from talent but also from experience, but if skilled people like having you around the quality of the experience you acculumate is that much better. That's when they start asking you themselves..."mate, we are going to hit the mission targets in grid AC14, do you want to ride with us?" ;)

Another thing to note is that you need to think as a formation/section and not as individual aircraft. After i overcome the stage of being sloppy and i gain some actual control over my aircraft, i stop playing sacrificial lamb and taking unecessary risks, even if i don't care about my stats. The reason is that if i get shot down i diminish the strength of my section. Similarly, i will do whatever i can to help a wingman out of a dangerous position, unless he himself tells me that it's hopeless and he's got no chance of avoiding getting shot down and even then, if i think i have a shot at rescuing him i'll still try it.

This mentality goes for kills as well. There's no such thing as "my target" and "your target" inside your section, unless the target is visibly out of action (the aircraft is visibly and clearly shot down/on fire/pilot has bailed out/wings missing/etc). The target is mine for the duration of my firing pass. If i don't shoot him down i will extend and cover the guy i'm flying with, now the target is his for one pass and then we switch back again. This goes on until one of us shoots him down.

Finally, it's generally considered a courtesy that if you're unsure if you should intervene in a fight you should ask about it. I have been diving towards a friendly to help him only to hear "thanks mate, i can handle him" (and he did), i have also been reluctant to interfere and the guy went "come on, get him off me". Some people might enjoy having a 15 minute one on one duel regardless of who wins and i don't want to crash their party. Similarly, others are more satisfied with completing a sortie, survival rates and advancing the mission objectives, so they are less likely to turn down help in dispatching a bandit. It's pretty simple, if in doubt ask them.

As you can see, i didn't say anything at all about what planes to fly, what load-outs to use and what tactics to learn. There are people out there who know tons more about these things than i do. Just be a good wingman and a team player and sooner or later you'll learn insane amounts of stuff from them, wether they are on your side and babysit you back to base or on the other team and beat seven different shades of crap out of you on a regular basis. All you need is to find a server with difficulty settings that suit you and stick to it so that you get to know who's who among the regular population, some patience and a friendly/enjoyable attitude and you'll be progressing in leaps and bounds in no time. Welcome and enjoy the ride ;)