the aces
 

Okay, so yesterday I got into a one on one against MIRGERVIN in a sim battle, and as expected I lost big time! Now I consider myself an OK sim pilot, but flying against that level of talent simply amazed me. I mean, I rarely saw him because he was almost always on my 6. whether I stayed high and dove down on him, or if I got down low in the weeds and tried to get the angle, it didn't matter, within a couple of turns he was behind me blasting the last shards of pride I had that was floating above Berlin.
I don't believe it was plane choice or any other lame excuse I could come up with. After the match I sent him a messege full of praise, and he wrote back with a thanks stating it's from lots of flying time, but is that it? I mean I was beside myself experiencing that kind of flying! I'm not looking for "gaming tricks", but rather flight combat tactics that can be practiced and honed to improve my battle worthiness. afterall, aside from the occasional flash of La-5 whizzing by, I never got to see how he ALWAYS got on my 6 o'clock....

What were you flying?

I don't think of it as completely an excuse. We've all heard, it's the pilot not the plane - and to a good extent I'd agree. But I think there is a line somewhere where no matter how good the pilot, he is at too much of a disadvantage by virtue of his mount. Either that, or he'd have to be Chuck Yeager + von Richthofen + Hartmann + Bader + O'Hare + ... you get my drift. There's not many that fit that bill. McGervyn is a good pilot with a lot of experience, and throw him in a better than average plane, it will only tip the balance more in his favor. If you were in say, a P-47, it would not shock anyone that you had a pretty rough go against even a barely competent pilot, let alone one as good as McGuyver. I flew against him back in his xbox days and had my tail chomped on by his Spit many times. But, I was able to make his Spitfire fold in half several times with my 109s.

If he was in the La-5, there aren't many planes that stack up evenly with it. Allegedly, but I believe it to be true, it can out-turn the Spit Mk IX (which afaik is the best turning Spit). And, unless the dynamics changed drastically in the PS3 version, or post-patch (not something an xbox player would know about), the La-5 down low can only be out-run by the La-7. Up high, the Bf-109K-4 has the top speed advantage, but the La's still might out-accelerate the 109 in a sprint.

Other things to consider in sim -

Better eyesight/bigger screen can give you an advantage over somebody dogfighting on a 13" dinosaur. If they're up high, you can pick out a speck at some distance. In the weeds, you will only see them when: they get close, you see tracers whizzing by your plane, or you see them moving rapidly across your line of sight.

Different control setups may give you an advantage over someone else's. I don't know the new schemes, but if there's a better way of looking around other than click and hold the right stick, it would be an improvement, and probably an advantage in a fight. Remember, he who sees first wins - and also, lose sight, lose the fight. Perhaps your setup in that regard is not as good as it could be.

Combat flaps. If you're not used to flying sim it's easy to forget about them. Use them to get the edge in a turn-fight. However, if your opponent also uses them, I guess it's a wash. But, if you don't use them and he does, you will know about it real soon as he saddles up on you after a turn and a half. You can yank back all day and he'll just line you up and send you down in flames. This is the voice of experience talking. Spitfire vs Spitfire and I was kicking myself all the way back to the loading screen after it was over.

Otherwise it all comes down to tactics. 1v1, this La-5 leaves little place to hide from it. If you turn with it, you're gonna die. If you stay down low, it will have a speed/acceleration advantage over your bird.

You really have two options: 1) also take an La-5, or 2) chose the 109K-4 and be a very, very, very disciplined boom and zoom attacker. Neither option is very good. Assuming you were as good a pilot as he, it could only end in a draw for La-5 vs La-5. Odds are one of you will make that fatal mistake, and by your own admission, odds are it will be you more often than him. BnZ works best on a predictable, unaware target. Get up high, dive down, blast the fucker, and zoom back up to safety. You won't get a lot of kills this way - one or two a match if you're lucky/good - but, on the other hand, you'll die a lot less. Working against you: he will most likely be very aware of where you are and not provide you that predictable target. Also, the priority is that if you don't hit/kill him on your pass, you have to get out of dodge with your own ass intact. Having a high energy state (a lot of speed) on the pass will help you live to fight another day, however, it gives you mere seconds to try to hit a moving target. This is also why it helps to have a lot of killing power on a BnZ aircraft - like all those nice cannon on the 109K-4. Also, it can be easy to botch the escape (the zoom). When you go whizzing by, he will turn to get on your six. If you climb away too steeply, or bleed speed by turning a little too much (no turning is best), he could have enough accel on that Russian hunk o' junk to catch you and spoil your whole day.

In reality, the Fw-190D-9, the P-51D and P-47 were all great at BnZ fighting. However, in the game they've been neutered and don't have the speed advantage that made them good at BnZ in real life. I'd say the D-9 could almost pull it off - I outran an La-5 once, but he would have dogged me to the end of the map had there not been more appealing targets way back there in a giant furball. In game, the 109G-10 and 109K-4 are the only two that can do BnZ successfully while solo - and you have to be on your game.

If all else fails, next time bring a wingman. At least one of you should get a shot.

I havent been playing sim mode online for very long and believe me i have had then all on my six but i have also been in a games where there are lots of the sim aces and mirgervin and believe me mirgervin is the ace of the aces.

Yeah he's probably gonna own you no matter what plane he flies.
Saw him many times being attacked by two La5's at once and he always shot them down with no apparent effort. He's great pilot.

1 v 1 is the real test and probably why a lot of folks feel uncomfortable entering tournaments or going 1 v 1 . I have spoken to many of the guys I consider to be great at 1 v 1 and, apart from the fact they are excellent flyers in combat anyway, most say that they have mastered the skill of maneouvring and watching you at the same time using the camera pan. They have lightening responses and are much quicker at spotting their foe from distance irrespective of what altitude they are at (bigger screens seem to help). They can see or induce 'predictibility' ........and exploit it!

Absolutely true, whenever I've had a decent "performance" (very few games sadly) I was constantly watching the enemy plane with the cam. Staying on their tails becomes way easier, and shaking them too I believe.
Too bad I always found it really "tiring", but I guess it's just me.

I'm convinced connection quality to the internet makes a big difference too. And from the times Ive flewn with him Im sure Mirgirvin has a very good connection. I think everyone has experienced times when you are pouring bullets into a plane thats right infront of you and nothing happens, other times you are flying 90 degrees from your target and get an awesome leed shot that kills the enemy instantly (something which would have been totaly imposible to do in the first example). A lot of the times that ive been killed by mirgirvin have been like this, I die before I even know im being shot at.

Ive also noticed the times when latency is higher the more non-counting crashed kills I get. Mirgirvin seems to get almost all his kills when Ive seen him fly.

Now i'm not saying his skill is just down to connection quality. He is obviously one of the best pilots in the game. I'm just saying its something to consider when he totaly wipes the floor with you.

Just want to add I remember one time when my connection was being nice to me, I was playing a realistic team battle in an I-153 and mirgirvin was on the other side in a La5. I singled him out and murdered him many times until he became anoyed and quit the game lol. He doesn't like the I-153. :P

i have a good internet connection and it dont help me

“micro-lag / connection” issue
 

Connection has little to do with it. Crash-bug happens to everyone. Some people handle it like rational adults and some cry like babies and blame the player (not naming names :-)).

If you get beaten by the same player a lot, got to the leaderboards and check out how many times that player has played that particular mode. Chances are they have far, far more games under their belt than you. It's about the only statistic which is good for anything (although it doesn't show flight time just number of matches played) and it shows you that 'practice makes perfect'.

player skill is the ultimate deciding factor
 

Lag...now I get why my bullets seem to pass through planes without causing any damage!! :D

Joke, I'm pretty sure my connection is quite good.
Anyway, I have met Mirgervirn in quite a few games and he's always been a nice guy, even when he was shot down many times (which didn't happen often, and not by me) he never quitted, but it's just my two cents.

yes well said

Yes QFT. I'm sorry if I sounded derogatory towards Mirgirvin that was not my intention, he is a nice guy. That was the only time I remember him quiting a game, I probably was being rather anoying too in that little cheap bi-plane lol

...then this will make you laugh: About a week ago I was invited to play in another sim match. There were 7 players, and MIRGERVIN and cep34 insisted on a 2 vs 5 battle. Well, once the game started someone said he didn't know why those two wanted it that way, after all, he said, "they are good but not that good." Long story short, the question of "good" was answered when the final score was something like 15 to 2, with MIRGERVIN and cep getting the 15.

By the way, thanks for the flying tips...

Mirgervin is a great pilot, although i was one of his main competitors until my official controller broke after i defeated him.

it sure was one of the most intense dogfights i have been in so far. if anything a one on one with mirgervin would end real close between the two of us, no joke.

i really need to start practising more often though as i haven't been on sim in a while.

Well, the implication was that you bring a good wingman, or one you can work well with. Actually, Mirgervin and cep prove my point - even more so doing it against the odds.

Usually, with a wingman, you stay in position with each other so that if the engaged fighter loses the advantage, the wing comes in and gives the bandit something to think about while the other fighter goes back to a supporting role. Essentially, two could keep jumping in and swapping out to keep the bandit continually on the defensive. It's a bit more complicated in practice, but that's the bare-bones of it.

Sometimes, more desperate measures work, but your wingman may not exactly thank you for it back at the O-club. For example, I was in a little guns match in Over-G Fighters. My wing and I were in F-14s against a single F-15. Now, the F-14 is a solid jet in that game, but the F-15 has a clear performance advantage - light weight with big engines, and the ability to pull +9Gs till the sun goes down versus the F-14's heavy weight with big engines and +6.5Gs. Whether or not the Tomcat is fairly represented considering the Eagle's performance (it isn't) is a topic for another day.

So, we hit the merge, dogfighting happened, etc., etc. Eventually, I get a little spit out of the fight, the 15 turns in on my wingman and he goes defensive. Thinking quickly, I decided to start calling my wingman's turns to help him evade, but more so to help me re-engage and saddle up on the F-15. So, essentially, I staked my ability to have my wingman maneuver the bandit into my sights and my ability to hit what I was shooting at against my wingman's ass. I figured, as long as I could make it happen fast, I could either get the bandit to break off or kill him because he was so intent on my wingman.

Long and the short of it, I had my wing drag the bandit into a firing position for me, and I nailed the bastard. It was actually a pretty beautiful thing. I did my best to help my wing reverse as the bandit overshot him, so by following my instructions, I flew my wingman into a scissors with the bandit while I closed for a shot. So, I was really trying my best to not get my wingman shot. It all worked out in the end. My wing was pretty impressed (at least at first) and asked how I knew when to call his turns for his defense. When I confessed that it was more intended to help me get a kill shot on the bandit (but by doing that, save his pink hide) the sentiment he expressed was more along the lines of "Good thing you didn't miss."

Subarugaz is the only one here who has beaten Mirgervin in an organized tournament duel. I've managed to beat him a few times 1 on 1, though not when he uses a spitfire. Here is a simple guide:

How to Beat Mirgervin (joke version, 4 easy steps)

1) spot mirgervin
2) run away
3) hope he doesn't follow
4) hope he crashes

How to Sometimes Beat Mirgervin (real version, many hard steps)

1) don't try to shoot Mirgervin head on, especially if he has a spitfire
2) learn to maneuver while checking 6, and learn to jink and dodge
3) learn to perform and counter gravity accelerated vertical turns
4) learn how to win rolling scissors
5) learn how gaining lead and making the opponent overshoot depend as much on ailerons as elevators.
6) read an air combat sim guide
7) practice endlessly

fly your plane. not the game....

1) don't try to shoot Mirgervin head on, especially if he has a spitfire

hmmm, use a g-6 or a k-4....

u will blow him to heaven

erm......what's a 'gravity accelerated vertical turn' Kozzmo? :confused:

Oh, and (VERY IMPORTANT) could you pm a description (rather than reply in this thread) of how to perform one as I don't want anyone else to know........:grin:...................only kidding!

As many have have stated, Mirgervin is either the best of the best, or one of. There's only one guy I knew who could give him a run for his money 1v1, but he's since retired.

I once managed to keep my view on him as he manouvered onto my 6 from a head to head, and you might notice he always turns upwards. He does a kind of stall turn thing then uses acceleration and your turn against you. I found the best tactic was to use my spit's superior firepower against him in a head to head then try and make enough distance to turn for another head to head. Needless to say it wasn't hugely successful.

Also, on the few occasions I have shot him down, more often than not, kills don't register on him and it counts as a crash (even after the patch). Also, re: screen size, he says he plays on a crappy smallish screen.

EDIT: apologies to SubaruGaz - I didn't realise you could beat him also, just like I didn't realise this thread had 2 pages before I posted lol

Migervin isn't that unbeatable and you guys give him far too much credit. Plus he ran away from the xbox guys for easier targets on the PS3...............lol


bruuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhaaahahahahahah

Hey mate it wasn't my intention either to say that you were being derogatory (sorry my english sucks, especially when I'm not drunk) :)
Lol I played only one game against I-152, it was long time ago and it was a nightmare for me. Probably most of the guys around here developed good tactics against that plane, I simply avoid it :D

hello nuklhed808,

there are really many great players in this game and a lot of players kick my ass too!!! but it is good to loose against them because u can learn and progress a lot!!
when i play i m afraid of all the players even the noobs because all of them have "the fighting spirit" and maybe today they are noobs but tomorrow they will be an aces i m sure because of practice!!it is great
IN MY OPINION MIRGERVIN AND TAGMANDBAGEM ARE REALLY THE BEST!!!!!
REALLY A GREAT ACES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RESPECT!!!!

GOOD HUNTING

Yup, I gotta agree. I wasn't pointing at MIRGERVIN as THE best pilot in the game, only that pilots with his level of flying simply amazes me! Yes, you too Olife. I can always count on you to have my 109 put into a flaming death spin. But win or loose I always learn something and I ALWAYS have fun...
watermanr7

thanks watermann but it is hard,and hard days by days to shoot u:u are a good player and u progress quickly.
very good meaning,happy to fly with u.
exuse me for my bad english

good hunting

I'm suprised Branko. I met him for the first time last night in a game with Ratman and found him to be a decent bloke. Was a good dogfight too with plenty of good kills by all so I'm suprised you state he was insulting.

Hey Branko,
sadly that's what the 262 was designed to do and is the only aircraft in the game that is capable of such long distance or hit and run kills. And to be honest as Shadow uses it as such and is damn useful at it I've got to respect the guy for doing so. Shadow is also a great bloke and and one of the fairest players I know so again I'm shocked that you feel this way??

Er.. Me 262 = B-17 killer..
you can't complain about people using 262's in the same forum where you've had a go at someone for telling you not to use a B-17, because that's hypocrisy.

It's one of the risks of flying a bomber.. If you see a 262 it'll soon be over.

I'm confused now Branko. Are we talking about rockets here or the Me 262? As the 262 doesn't have rockets as an option in the game I don't see how we can discuss the two in the same sentence. Winny, McKinney and I took B17's into game where McQ and Shadow flew 262's. Having not had the pleasure of flying against a 262 in realistic I thought it would be similar to when a piston tries to down you and sadly doesn't even get close. What was a shock was the range at which the 262's cannons are effective and the speed at which it can close distance. Both McQ and Shadow flew them exactly as they would have been in real life with some nice and devastingly effective BnZ tactics. I therefore don't see or personally have any issue with anyone flying a 262. And whilst I agree rockets are cheap, sadly I don't think you or I will get anywhere by just stating our dislike of them on here. No matter what they'll always be in the game and as such people will use them. As has previously been stated to be effective they have to be point blank which not many people are capable of getting to. Most of the times I have been downed by rockets it has been due to lucky shots rather than any skill level and as such I have given up worrying about them. As they are a fixed trajectory it isn't that difficult to take avoiding action to avoid them. It is a pity none of the german planes have them as armament options as this would certainly make the game more real but we have to live with what was provided within the game and as such think we just have to make the best of it. All in all I'll respect anyone who can down using guns over rockets but they're always going to be there and so it's not worth crying over spilt milk. There are also those who are able to just look at a bomber and the thing falls to bits so do we start to label these 'effective' pilots as unfair just because they spent their time honing their craft just as I spent it learning to become an 'effective' bomber pilot? I am pretty sure there will be people out there that hate me due to the fact they can't down me or out bomb me when I'm in the 17 but is that my fault? Just because someone has taken the time to both learn their aircraft and how to use it shouldn't immediately mean categorising them as 'unfair'. All it means is you adapt your tactics to prevent the oppotunities arising. For example the 262 sadly doesn't turn that well so keep the 17 nice and slow n low and turn to follow them and they'll struggle to make contact with you.

Thanks for the irrelevant reply Branko... I was talking about a video game..

I was pointing out that for you to post on here complaining that people use a certain plane, and to also be posting on here about the fact that some people complain about you using your bomber, is a little contradictory.

So can we or can't we fly whatever the hell we want to?

If you show up to a gunfight with a knife you're gonna get into trouble.

I don't really know where you're coming from anymore... *opens canopy*

Time to bail out of this thread..

watch out you might get straffed while hanging under the silk.....wow.

Branko why are you turning all these threads into an insult fight? Please keep it to one thread only if you really have to complain about other people.

thanks dear you just proved my point. and i NEVER EVER touted myself as a couch ace...i am far from that. i am cannon fodder...when i come online i will surely get my butt kicked. and it will be dissapointing and humbling and i will take it like a gentleman. and if there are people i wish not to share the experience with...i will not play in that sandbox. and if i get to the point where i must come here to rant and hurl insults...i will find something else to do as a pass time.

and just for your information...the name Bobby socks...was my late father's nick name in WW2 where he flew real mustangs, in a real war, and was a real ace. I took that to honor him...not me. kiss your own 6.

Hey Bobby, if you get/have 1946 I'll gladly be your wingman for online games... I don't quite play BoP much anymore, and if so only on training for some good graphics (that's about it now, I can't stand Online.) Anyway, I'll make sure you're not made into Cannon Fodder while flying along side me. (WITH A REALY YAK-3 MODEL!!!!! :cool:)

You wouldn't happen to fly the Yak-1B from time to time would you?

You seem to be waving that round like some sort of insult sheild..

Time for some straight talking;

First of all, how about actually learning some etiquete and not using caps? Its considered disrespectful and hostile as it is used to indicate shouting. Consistantly banging on in the fashion you have indicates a lack of internet experience, and understanding. People have been fired from jobs for that kind of typing.

Secondly, this is the internet. People can and will talk anyway they like. If you dont like that then its just tough luck as to everyone else on the internet, your a nobody. There is nothing you can do about it, you can't make anyone say or do anything just because you say so. You have no legal right here, and no moral one either.

Thirdly, your husband is the person with the experience of real life aerial combat, not you. It doesn't magically rub off and make you a better pilot in a computer game, especially if he was a tail end charlie, waist gunner or navigator etc. We are not in the war anymore incase you failed to notice. Insulting another member's veteran father just because you disagree with them on a point is no way to honour the memory of the men and women who made the ultimate sacrafice. You only show yourself to be prejudicial, and ignorant.

And lastly, if you dont like how a person plays the game then leave the game. You gain no kudos while gaming from anyone playing just because you have a veteran husband. If your tooling around in dogfight or team battle in a B-17 then people have a right to be pissed at you for ruining their game experience for your own pleasure. Dont be so shocked and surprised when they then voice that opinion.

Question that would make your husband @ 85-90 yrs of age based being @ 18-20 years old between 1942-1945

Boeing B-17E
Role Heavy bomber
Strategic bomber
National origin United States
Manufacturer Boeing
First flight 28 July 1935

Introduction April 1938

Retired 1968 (Brazilian Air Force)

Primary users United States Army Air Forces

Royal Air Force

Produced 1936–1945 **** Data from Wikipedia

Maybe he piloted one of the B-17s that they used to fight Wildfires and stuff in the US?

Or maybe he flew one that was "restored" and flew on the display circuit? :grin:

What did Foz and I do? We were just guessing what your husband did in B-17s. I still say some kind Wildfire thing, but Foz, you could be right about the circuit?

Ok, first, I just asked what he did! So unless you yourself are clueless to what your husband actually did in B-17s, besides ride/fly in them over wildfires or air shows, then just say what he did. That's all I want to know. How was I being disrespectful?

You keep saying he risked his life for us all, and put his life in risk for our freedoms. Why don't you tell us exactly what that was, that he did? I just want to know that, and not trying to be disrespectful. How hard is it to answer that?

Soviet, i would be honored for you to do that for me. i dont have 1946 yet. have 3 more missions to finish in BoP...and then was going to start getting online. i did buy some other stuff...heros of the pacific and something else. been so long i cant remember their names...haha. but like IL2 BoP so much am looking into the other games...1946 and the original IL2...if they are xbox. i will be pretty green once i get there...and sorry have to fly a 51 if i can. had some skins made up of my dad's plane and if i can fly the Cathy Mae II ( my mom's name )...i gotta. will PM you soon....thanks.

You really are clueless aren't you. You should be ashamed of yourself. You have done little other than attack other members here and consistantly insult people. Lets be clear on this, I and many other people here DO NOT give a rats arse who you are or what you do. Some members have asked you simple questions which you have failed to answer either coherantly, or accurately and instead bandy about insults.

This leads me to believe that you are infact lying about yourself. Why, I dont know other than it seems like you want some kind of personal recognition or adulation outwith the game enviroment. I surmise that you are infact a snot nosed teen, with bad grammer and language skills and no real understanding of what you are "claiming" about yourself.

If your so called "pilot husband" was really a B-17 veteran, then name the squadron and theatre he flew in along with the name of the aircraft. Otherwise, your a bared faced liar and I call you out as such.

And PS; Typing in colour infact makes it much harder to read a post, as it has been proven that with impared sight black text and is the easiest to read and most legible.

[QUOTE=branko57;152401]Again with the insults. My my, you are a petulant one arent you. If you had not already noticed, I am not in your life. I am on a forum, where people discuss aspects of Birds of Prey and related items. I can and will post where and when I so choose and nothing you say or do will change that.

Your small minded and ignorant insults do nothing to me. And they only serve to reinforce my view of you. Having reviewed some of your post history, it is clear to me that you are indeed a liar and a fraud. Your language style, terms of reference and near terminal insistance to have the last word only go to show how clearly lacking you are in any sort of moral fibre. Anyone who is married to a person for any length of time knows intimately basic background details, which you have failed to relay with any sort of veracity.

He was a lot less helpless than the civillians on the ground that he was bombing.. War is nasty... really nasty. So some germans fired a few rockets at him. So what? It wasn't you, yet you react like you're the one 'scarred' by it.. A Bf-109 strafed my grandad in Belgium.. Should I start to refuse to play anyone who uses one in the game?

You sound like a victim all the time.. Good job you were not a real b-17 pilot, you needed guts to do that, woman or not.

[QUOTE=branko57;152401]I'm sorry but I have to agree with him, that is not how an elderly woman reacts. Add to that the coloured fonts with sometimes all caps, you are making yourself look to others as an angry teenager.

I would say you are now very close to being banned.

Right.... anyway, getting shot at with rockets might be a big deal, but if you are really who you say you are in relation to this bomber dude, you should be grateful that he didn't actually get shot down. I had a grandfather fight in North Africa, and he got shot down two or three times in a fighter. One of which, he brought the plane to the ground himself that gave him a small concussion from hitting the panel on his plane. So if you want to talk horror stories, I've got plenty from my Grandfather's who fought in both theatre's and on two opposing sides.

But I got my answer, so I could careless if you're telling the truth. I don't need any flight logs or pictures for you to prove yourself to me. In fact, just mentioning that gives me a bit of doubt because I never asked for those things in the first place, and you probably thought as a defensive tactic to throw that out there; wondering probably if I'd call your bluff or not. WELL I DON'T CARE!

On a completely different matter: I've never seen so much non-commie red lettering in a thread on here before. lol :P

[QUOTE=branko57;152408]Did you not read my last post? Most of us here have no idea what has been going on in your PS3 games nor do we care. All we know is we have suddenly
got you calling out and insulting some respected long time members of this forum who have never had a problem with anybody else before now.

Posts like yours are not aceptable. Please Trk29, can you ban this Bitter old woman / Angry young teen.

It speaks volumes for a person's character when they bandy about expletive insults. Take note that not once have I done so, yet Branko instanly goes on the defensive when asked simple and direct questions about "her" claims.

It seems to me that "she" is simply a B-17-aphile, who used the bombers armour and cannons in an attempt to exploit other players for victory in Dogfight and Team games. When this was then shown to be a flawed and idiotic method of play by another player rocketing the B-17, "she" immediately started insulting players for countering the lame tactic, and then started insinuating the "B-17 Wife" argument in an attempt to garner sympathy. This has obviously backfired spectacularly, as the claims have no veracity.

Anyone else find it interesting, that Branko has to be at LEAST 85 or older? And why would a 85+ year old be playing a game like this, rather than sitting looking out a window or something? I mean, all the people I know who are in their 80s and early 90s, aren't playing around with video games. They're busy telling me stories of the past, and getting me confused with this guy or that guy from their past.

[QUOTE=branko57;152412]Hmm, starting on me now huh?
I have read all your posts with difficulty (as someone else pointed out to you, it is a fact that coloured writing or all caps is far more difficult to read)

Also my Tag is in large bold font next to my avatar pic. I'm sure if you can't read that then red/blue/Caps isn't going to help you.

[QUOTE=branko57;152418][QUOTE=Lexandro;152404]Hey now. I'm quite sure, that I'm probably the most knowledgeable about Soviet and Italian planes on this forum.... Or at least, from time to time, it seems like it. Just like there's plenty of knowledgeable people on Spitfires, Hurricanes, Me-109s, Me-110s, FW's, etc. Some just enjoy the planes, and like their history. Some of us like both the history and stats of the planes.

if she is german and that old ...she would have witnessed the B17 for real and not in a favorable light. i am not trying to proliferate this further but in all honesty i see no one hurling insults but asking honest questions. I have seen her posts in the past and am quite frankly dumbfounded at how this thread has progressed. i have no explanation nor do i wish to venture a guess...but in all its a rather sad day here in the forum....this thread and others...

Hören Freund, wissen Sie, wenn Sie Microsoft Word eintippen und Erfolg Sie kann scheinen, deutsch zu sein übersetzen. Aber Sie wissen das.

Mein Großvater kam aus Deutschland vor 1900. Ich habe Verwandte, dort…, das ich Ihnen die Stadt erklären kann, er von kam, wenn Sie wünschen…

translation...if you take something and type it in microsoft word and hit translate.... you can figure the rest. OR you can cut and paste and see what i said...kinda like a class project....haha

[QUOTE=branko57;152425]Good. Now please stop ruining this forum with your posts.

(how many times have you disabled a quote code with your bad use of colour code?)

I've been a forum regular here now for a long time, and never attacked or accused anyone of anything. Until now!

I believe that you ARE NOT who you say you are. Nothing you say makes me believe it what so ever. You can attack me for this all you like, much like you have attacked everyone else who has posted in this thread.

Your native language is not english, yet you want to carry on in German/Croatian, well someone was kind enough to post in such language to help you. I noticed you missed out that post and just carried on with the flaming of others. This is NOT the attitude of anyone at any age, ESPECIALLY 85-90 years old if thats the case.

Your husband flew B17's, yet when questioned (not through beliefs etc) about where he flew and when, you chose to flame once again. People dont ask this because they dont believe you, they asked because they were curious!

IF you have been with someone for as many years as you have claimed then you would know a hell of a lot, whether you wanted to or not. Its natural and normal yet you hide away in your shell and chose to flame and cause trouble rather than get along with everyone.

What exactly is the problem? WITHOUT flaming everyone?

No doubt you will take it upon yourself to flame me now for what i have written, but i can handle that. Sooner or later the cracks will show and we will see through you for what you really are - a liar. Plain and simple.

ah...this thread brings back fond memories.....wonder what happened to Gunny?.....sort of miss him now and the blistering threads that spiralled downwards like a Spit with holes............:grin:

Haha, maybe Gunny DID actually get rid of the game? unlike the other 3 or 4 times where he said he did yet kept coming back :P

This forum never ceases to amaze me.

Many of us have a very good idea what kind of player and person you are.
Maybe its because you have been complaining on this forum and telling everyone about it.

I'd be very suprised if any of the people youve stated would come forward and condone how you have acted here.

(You've been told 4 or 5 times now. Enough with the red/blue/CAPS !! )

based on what I have read......colour of the text could be bright pink with green and yellow spots and it would still be 'blue'........:grin:.......ii'll get me hat and coat...........:rolleyes:

YOU know GUYS, I LOVE this THREAD so MUCH, that I'M just GONNA start SPREADING good OLD Soviet PROPAGANDA because I think, LIKE this ENDLESS argument OF who's WHAT and WHY? It'll HELP me UNDERSTAND why?... LOL


LONG LIVE THE PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!! DON'T TAKE ONE STEP BACK, FOR ONLY COWARDS MOVE BACK AND NOT FORWARD!!!! WHEN THE MAN WITH THE RIFLE GETS KILLED, THE MAN WITH BULLETS PICKS UP THE RIFLE AND SHOOOTS!!!!!

NEVER LET THE FASCISTS TAKE WHAT THE MOTHERLAND HAS GIVEN TO YOU!!!! NEVER LET THEM TAKE YOUR HOME, DIE IN THE GREAT NAME OF THE MOTHER LAND IF YOU NEED TOO!!!!!


Alright, I'm done. I'm gonna go have a couple of beers and will see you all another time. I'm kinda tired too. Spreading the word of Communist Revolution is kinda tiring when you think about it. :lol:

...... Soviet Ace, BOP is Soviet Propaganda......:grin: fookin Russian Planes are the best in the game.......and P51 Mustang inferior USA capatilist shite.!..........:grin:

No you didn't. I always read others posts carefully (VERY difficult to do in your case) to make sure I haven't misunderstood 1st read though. I also re read my own posts for mistakes (something you obviously don't do otherwise you would have realised your colour writing was messing up everyones quotes before I told you, at least you've fixed that now).

I have told you the facts. It is considered rude to post in all CAPS (shouting)
and just annoying to have to read coloured writing as it it doesn't have the definition of black on white and so is less clear. Your excuse is you write like that because you have bad sight. Dumbest excuse EVER! WE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO READ YOUR POSTS NOT YOU!

You seem to be able to read our posts just fine to be able to reply with more unneeded insults. Give up already and disappear, you know we will break you if you don't lol

WITH THE AWESOME STRENGTH AND FEROCITY OF THE RED ARMY AND RED AIR FORCE AT MY COMMAND, WE WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT CRUSH YOUR PUNY RESISTANCE WITH JUST A FLICK OF OUR FINGER AND THUMB!!!!! WE ARE THE MOST FEARED MILITARY ON THE EARTH!!!!!!!!!! OUR SOLDIERS ARE NOT TRAINED FOR SYMPATHY OR EMOTIONAL REASONING; THEY ARE TRAINED TO BE EFFICIENT FIGHTING MACHINES, THAT WITHOUT A DOUBT OR BLINK OF AN EYELASH WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!!!

http://veteransbreakfastclub.files.w...propaganda.jpg
http://andrikyrychok.files.wordpress.../11/17-216.jpg
http://lemill.net/content/pieces/sov...er/image_large

Sometimes it's fun to be a kid again. :lol:

Is more than an hour I'm reading this thread..

Only one thing, elderly or young people who are ...
Bop is a game, a really good game ... and the games are made for fun ..
Spitfires, Messerschmitts, Yak, Lavochkin, Boenigs, cannons, rockets, bombs ...

One day I win, on day i lose..
one day i fly in a very good and correct historical dogfight,
one day I try to shoot an I-153, which attempt to hit a Me-262 that shoots a Bf-109G-6 that hit a Blenheim MkIV that destroys a Hurricane that launch a rocket to a B17.
I don't get angry.

It's a game, and (fortunately) I am always sitting on my comfortable couch.

Often my mind goes out to those who have really flown with these machines..
the pilots who lost their lives during dogfights, and to civilians who lost their lives looking at a myriad of bombs raining on his head.

Come on! Try to have fun with this fantastic game, playing and honoring pilots and victims without insulting ...:rolleyes:

See you later in the skies.. (and excuse me for my bad english)

..in the meantime I have found a real postcard..
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...1&d=1270022086

Some sense here my friend, well said! Things appear to be getting heated, that's a great shame as we all play this game because we love it!:-P:-P:-P
Nobody really dies in this game (thankfully!)
If we argue about this game, what chance does anybody stand in the real world?:confused::confused::confused:

+1
this thread was depressing me. Branko got stressed and it seemed like the whole forum rounded on her.

Thread should be locked

Branko, I consider myself a very fair player. Ask anyone. I take people as I find them. I don't know you and I'm not interested in seeing your husbands log book because that part of the thread is just getting silly and personal.

My only problem with you is your reaction to anyone who disagrees with you. It's super defensive to the point of being agressive.

I can't think of one person who's a regular poster on here who I wouldn't fly with. I've been mown to tiny pieces in sim by MIGERVIN and tagem repeatedly, I've been shot to shit by RATMAN, shadow, Mc, Gilly.... everyone. I've never sent anyone a message full of abuse. You react to me like I'm some sort of teenager with attitude. I'm not.

The people who use this forum are the people who see it as more than a video game, they all appreciate the beauty and history and emotional attachment to the aircraft... Look at the posts on this forum there's been some really good posts about the real war and the young boys who were fighting and dying in it.

You make us all sound like we don't know what happened, the very fact that we are members of this forum shows that we do.

The kids that you should be getting pissed at aren't here.. To them it's just a game. To me and obviously to you it's not.

Also I know that english isn't your native language and hope you understand this.

Yeah, peace.

I dont like Jumping to conculsions either but I have to agree with the just of Lex post above that is why I brought up dates and ages. The behaviour and attitude do not seem to fit the demographic? With that being said on the "Internets " ( one of my fav G.W. isims) people can claim to be anything they want. I for one am emperor zoningo supream ruler of Moon Zeta.

As for Branko Never met her have not played with her . She likes the B17 thats fine I love the bombers as well. But if your flying one , other then in a strike or CTA and some one decides that they are going to blast rockets in an attempt to down you it should not be shocking . its simple if you are a one trick pony allways a a bomber or all you do is fly the huricane and blast rockets at everyone in the sky . That is Cheese Head material

Be you A Vetern Like my self ( 1987-1997) Canadian Armed Forces
UN tour Nov 92 - April 93 UNPROFOR CANBAT1- Sarajevo Croatia
UN tour Jan 93 - April 94 UNOMUR-UNAMIR Kagali
NATO deployment Nov 95- March 96 STANAVFORLANT ( Adriatic )

Or a Family member of a Vet

no I'm Spartacus!!!!


And much respect to you JOED for the military career and especially the tours

There are Aces and a few jokers in a pack of cards.....same in BOP I guess, sweet FA to do with this thread but what the hell...a change is as good as a rest.............my old man served in the Eighth Army under Montgomery during WW2, I spoke to him on several occaisions about what it was like and some of his close shaves...........first was his Troop Transporter being Torpedoed by a German Sub on his way to North Africa and second was being Bombed........ ............by American Bombers.......used to laugh is socks off at that one as not one bomb hit a target.....:grin:....the funniest was that water was in such short supply that when their recce vehicle blew a headgasket (out in the desert) they kept the water and used their 'pee' to fill the radiator.....he said the stench of steaming piss that bellowed out behind them nearly killed the poor sods driving behind................they had to keep stopping for a drink of water so that they could keep on peeing ...........:grin:

Hey Branko,
I've got to know JOED pretty well and he isn't the kind of guy to make up bullshit. I would be in exactly the same boat as him when it came to defining the borders of those countries. As much as I am well aware of what went on there I would be hard pushed to so specific. I have a very good friend who so served there with the British army and to be honest he rarely speaks of it due to the horror he witnessed first hand. I know for a fact that JOED did serve there as I have had long conversations with him on the subject. I also believe him to be a decent bloke, end of. I therefore have absolutely no reason to question whether he is telling the truth as I honestly believe he is. Similarly, if you read his original post on this thread you will find him following the same ethics as the rest of the flyers on here. Please cut him some slack

To be fair, a lot of the US and Canadian units were stationed in Croatia. Its quiet easy for people to get that area of the world a bit wrong what with the shifting borders due to the conflict, and the fact that even many Europeans couldn't pick out Sarajevo on a map let alone say it properly.

Call it Croatia , Bosina , Yugoslovia, Fromer republic of , The Balkens , Serbia
Carpathia or what ever you will I was there twice . And now that I know that is were you are from all your nastyness and idiot logic now make sense . It must be either a Genetic thing or perhaps something in water . That makes you Slavs hate everyone even your self. Only place in world I know were the Muslims are victims of a group more fanatical then them selves .

I all i Know is a was pretty strong Catholic before my trip there.

I have only set foot in a church twice since then once for my brothers funeral and once for My Dad's

Dobra la vicher (or how ever you spell it . )

....not being patronising but you have to study the history of the region to fully understand the politics and attitiudes......its extremely complex and not as black and white as you may think......

By the way un like you I will back my statements up with proof

look at these photos Its the only Medal i have left as it was Issued after I left the service . I threw my others in the harbour here in a fit of rage . After returning home from Adriatic to find my Family and my home gone . And our Military was only concerned with if I would be able to Redeploy back to Yugo in Jan 97 . So I put my release in Nov 96 thats when they went for a swim .

Sadley the UN will not issue replacement medals no matter what circumstances they are lost in .

I have placed todays local paper under Letter and Medal date is just above the medal

Trust me I know the History its pretty simple really still fighting the same battles since the fall of Acre in late 13th century Last of the expansion of Seljuk turks and Ottomen empire bla. bla .bla . Well was the 20 Century then

All they want to do is fight only thing that brought any form of stablity was burtal dictators like Tito.

Oh well what can you expect when men breed with goats .

How long till this monstrosity gets locked? Any moderators out there?

it started to bleed into other threads so it would probably move elsewhere and keep on rolling....

I'll second that!

Steady mate, this conversation is getting out of hand. How did this end up having pops at a whole nation. Every country has its problems (dont get me started on our problems in UK!) but comments like that not really called for. I do believe this whole thing stemmed from a conversation about rocket use against aircraft in the game. Its all gone pear shaped from both sides so I suggest this thread is locked (again!) before it gets any worse.
I used to look forward to coming to this forum but the bad vibes are making it more like a trip to the dentist for a tooth extraction at the moment

12 PAGES FOR THAT!!!

To my humble opinion, the only thing to remember from this thread, and others in which Branko is SHOUTING ;), is the total absence of any moderator...

If someone with this "power" read this, please, do something. It's a pity to read such things on a game forum !:(

I'm defending JOED as I think your wrong by calling him. Sadly these boards have decended to an absolutely stupid level of name calling and abuse and I for one am pretty sick of it. I come on here to enjoy myself when I'm not able to fly and talk with the people who I fly with but these past two weeks have seen me really question why waste my time. The only thing keeping me here is that I believe in amongst the rubbish currently being posted there is some seriously useful, interesting, helpful and humourous bits that often help make my day. Plus I get to socialise when I'm not flying with one great bunch of mates. That's my reasoning at the minute. If people are not careful this will become a wasteland rather than the Elysium it currently is.

THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO US REDS!!!! WE WOULD HAVE FINISHED THIS LONG AGO, WITH NONE OF ENEMY SURVIVING!!!! lol

Anyway, for everyone still in this little pointless/never ending argument of who's what and things. I ask...

http://images3.hiboox.com/images/240...f9407e9299.jpg

Exactly! In them I said don't let them get to you. I had my blind rage last week and realised that it ain't worth it hence why I don't give a flying fu...
What has really saddened me is how this forum has denegrated into just one big slanting match that has not only left the game but become extremely personal to some people. That's what pisses me off. Where's the enjoyment in watching grown adults abuse each other?? Sad reflection on what was a great forum

Rodger That

On the Cuppa I can't belive as what started out as a defence of Bombers and there place in online "game" has to what this degraded to and I am truely sorry but as gilley so elequelnty put it is very emotional issue for some of us . Nothing personal just pure emotion. And for me it was some emotions I thought I had locked away .

I Vote LOcked please .

Exactly my sentiments, I have gleaned a great deal of sage wisdom, tips and camraderie from the short time I have been on these forums and would hate to see it devolve into something like the AR-15 forums.

Amen. in the short time i have been here i have met some great people and learned a great deal just reading. it would be sad to see anyone leave because of a few moments of emotion...which no one is immune and everyone suffers from time to time.

You truely are absolulely oblivious to why you now have almost every single forum member hating you. We don't care that you choose to play cheap with b-17. It is nothing to do with your gender either. The fact is you have come here and Called out, insulted, complained, used unacceptable language and broken almost every single forum rule there is (double posting is considered slighty bad form, You blast that out the water with a 7 streak post, That is SPAMMING). This was a pleasent place before you arived with your posting cancer. You have been told and warned over and over again and you just don't listen. If the mods where present you would have been permananty banned 5 or 6 times over. No one else has said anything untowards about you here other than telling you that we don't believe you are a truthfull person and that only comes about because of your own actions on this forum. You say you didn't start this war of words. Well I'm sorry but on this forum we have proof that you did.
Once again I do not care about things that have happened on your PS3. You can send as many PS3 insulting messages you want its up to the reciever to block you. Unfortunatly we don't have that option. Please just get out because you are not welcome here.

Bobby I have played with Branko on BoP for a long time and she has been a great player. There has been a lot of shouting in this thread from both sides but it's getting very personal and very nasty. Nobody is coming out of thislooking well and that last post is final straw.
Look back at older threads and you will see branko has been great member of the forum.
I believe this current sittiation actualy stems back to a discussion where people stated bombers should not be allowed to enter dogfights or team battles. Everyone knows branko only flys the 17 so that in effect rules her out of half the game. She has been playing it since release so I think she took exception. She is a fair player online, doesn't cheat and I enjoy covering her in team battles.
Time to knock this one on the head I think.
Branko I will be online tonight if you fancy some matches in arcade

I love the attak battles with bombers and air coverage ...
it's a bit of time we don't create them...


When, the next historic battle, perhaps as a REAL or SIM mode?
Come on, peace and let's get back to playing sane...

Branko, you are vicious, nasty, vindictive, spoilt, soft, aggressive, over sensitive, foul mouthed, small minded and worst of all a hypocrite.


You cannot expect to be treated with respect if you show none to anyone who has a different opinion to you. My grandfather, bobbys father and your husband were fighting for freedom from tyranny and for the right to free speach.

This started because someone fired rockets at you in a video game?

Or was it because people were using 262's against you? I seem to remember both being mentioned.

Bobbysocks has posted some great links to some interesting WWII stuff and has been a welcome addidtion to this forum. He loses his temper and gets a load of abuse from you and yet when you lose your temper and get abuse you can't handle if. HYPOCRITE HYPOCRITE HYPOCRITE.

You try and tell people they can't use rockets or jets in a game that they paid for!!!? Who the hell do you think you are?

You threw your toys out of the pram when you posted some pictures of your B-17 last month, no-one replied and you posted saying that we didn't deserve to see them and that you were leaving (you since deleted the thread) these are the actions of a spoilt child.

If you don't like the majority of people on this forum then may I suggest you don't come here.

like I thought.. nothing to say to a reasoned argument.

It's a forum not a friends list competition. Grow up.