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- - Campaigns as Axis? (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=8568)

In reply to Anton Yudintsev,

Quote:

Originally Posted by David603 (Post 87126)

Stalin ruthlessly killed those who were not ethnic Russians. More than 100,000(1) ethnically Polish civilians were murdered prior to WWII, as too were many Germans who had emigrated to Russia after WWI. People of other nationalities such as Americans who had fled the Great Depression were also persecuted. In my mind there is not much difference between persecuting people because they belong to one specific ethnic group and persecuting people because they have a different ethnic origin to your own.

Russian troops regularly executed captured enemies, including many German pilots, and killed 25,000 Polish officers(2) on Stalin's orders. Around 12-15%(580,000(3) out of around 4 million) of all prisoners of war taken by the Soviets died in the Gulags (penal labour camps).

Advancing Russian troops looted and pillaged the land of the Axis nations they took, and raped tens if not hundreds of thousands of women.(4)

I am not saying what the Russian did during WWII was unprovoked, or necessarily much worse than what the Germans did, but no one had clean hands during WWII and the Germans tend to get isolated as if what they did was greatly worse than everyone else's behaviour.

(1)Kenneth Christie(2002)85,000 ethnic Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians deported between 1940-41, of which 55,000 killed or died.
(2)CIA report on "Katryn Controversy". On 5th March 1940, Stalin signed their death warrant--an NKVD order condemning 21,857 to "the supreme penalty: shooting".
(3)Richard Overy: Russia's War(1997) regarding POWs during WWII "official figures show ca. 580,000 deaths"
(4) I withdraw this statement, I cannot find references of sufficient quality to back this up.

I will be adding more references, but finding the figures takes time and I want to save what I have written down in case something happens to my computer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Lecter (Post 87182)

People can deny the moon landing if they feel like it, but I have serious doubts about their mental state when they start telling me that there is no evidence that concentration camps were real.

And it is understandable.
It is hard to believe, that someone could actually done this.

There was reason, why Nazis told everyone that jews, blacks, gipsys, etc - were of the lesser race. They had to convinve them, that they are not humans - otherwise it would be hard for soldiers to follow these orders.

I may only be 15 but ive been to Auschwitz. I strongly recommend going! Its true the stories of no animals living there! there wasnt even a peep from a bird!
Chris

I misworded that.:oops: woops!

I ment like actual German records of killing people(or something like that) which were destroyed before Germans fled the camps when Allied troops got close and this keeps some Germans from believing it happened.

I know there are documents(woopsie me), movies, even the death camps that are still there!:rolleyes:

I can recall some of my history professors telling me this, but I can't remember specifically what it was.:???:

My bad :oops:

Maybe it was the fact it was so unbelievable that someone would do something so horrible and sick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David603 (Post 87185)

I will be adding more references, but finding the figures takes time and I want to save what I have written down in case something happens to my computer.

Why bother?

There is no Nazi campaign in this game, and there never will be. Regardless of whatever articles, facts, opinions, whatever... That has been answered and this ridiculous thread should be locked and left to die.

Trying to soften the evil of what the Nazis did by showing the evils of others is just plain stupid. What is your goal? Pointing your finger and the developer of this game saying your people were more evil than the Nazis so you should include a Nazi campaign?

Holy WTF? Get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by versapak (Post 87191)

the original poster meant a GERMAN campaign , not a nazi one

Quote:

Originally Posted by David603 (Post 87185)

In reply to Anton Yudintsev,

(1)Kenneth Christie(2002)85,000 ethnic Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians deported between 1940-41, of which 55,000 killed or died.
(2)CIA report on "Katryn Controversy". On 5th March 1940, Stalin signed their death warrant--an NKVD order condemning 21,857 to "the supreme penalty: shooting".
(3)Richard Overy: Russia's War(1997) regarding POWs during WWII "official figures show ca. 580,000 deaths"

I will be adding more references, but finding the figures takes time and I want to save what I have written down in case something happens to my computer.

Oh, yeah.
Especially this CIA is imperssive.
Once again - stop talking about things you don't understand - or provide links to DOCUMENTS. They are open now, so everyone can take a look.

Only last one is about PoW, right?
Once again, living in USSR during WW2 was very hard. Soviet people were starving and died. A lot of them. Because there was no food. Living as PoW was not easy - but it was not as hard as living in a, let's say, Leningrad.
How do you expect all of them could survive? Some of them were wounded. There were diseases. They were living in a bad conditions - as well as all soldiers and a lot of citizens.

But they were fed more than, some of Soldiers soldiers on a Frontlines!
And some of German soldiers WERE executed. After trial, and IF they guilty in killing citizens - not just because they were Germans.

I am writing a letter to moderator.
Bye.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiltyspark (Post 87195)

the original poster meant a GERMAN campaign , not a nazi one

Well, it's hard to tell the difference 1938-1945...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev (Post 87135)

Simply, that's a lie. Prove it or stop talk about it.
No more, than 21 000 of Poland soldiers were executed. Even less according to official information.
They were soldiers, not citizens. And, although it is still awful and ugly, they were not murdered in gasenwagens, or starved to death.
But - 1. they were soldiers 2. your numbers are something imaginery.
Just to remind, at least 50 000 russian war prisoners were killed by Poland soldiers earlier.

I would like to see where this figure of 50,000 Russian POWs executed by the Polish comes from. Polish troops were given orders not to engage Soviet troops, and fighting was limited. As far as I know, the Polish did not capture any significant numbers of Russian troops, if any at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H Lecter (Post 87199)

Well, it's hard to tell the difference 1938-1945...

dumbest thing i have ever heard