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-   IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=132)
-   -   How Realistic Is The Simulation Mode? (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=8642)

David603 08-07-2009 06:35 PM
I don't think the Bf109s in that video were the right Bf109s anyway. They look like Bf109G10s or Bf109Ks, when it is far more likely they were Bf109G6s, probably equipped with the twin 20mm underslung cannon that where useful against bombers but hated by German pilots because they eroded the 109s performance and manoeuvrability. This would also explain the other Bf109s inability to out turn the P51 later in the engagement.

butterfield 08-07-2009 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David603 (Post 88339)
I don't think the Bf109s in that video were the right Bf109s anyway. They look like Bf109G10s or Bf109Ks, when it is far more likely they were Bf109G6s, probably equipped with the twin 20mm underslung cannon that where useful against bombers but hated by German pilots because they eroded the 109s performance and manoeuvrability. This would also explain the other Bf109s inability to out turn the P51 later in the engagement.
You know that's a good point. Were the underslung cannons an option on the G?..meaning... could pilots have the ground crew easily remove them if they were disliked?

David603 08-07-2009 07:05 PM
The Rustsatz field modifications allowed for guns or other equipment to be fitted to standardised location points present on all aircraft from the G onwards. Therefore the extra 20mm cannon could be removed in the field, but without them the standard G6 armament of 1 20mm cannon and 2 13mm MGs lacked punch against bombers.

Normal solution was to have some 109s without extra armament escorting the more heavily armed bomber destroyers. Other solutions were to use Bf109s fitted with a 30mm engine mounted cannon as a permanent modification, or another Rustsatz kit with 2 30mm cannon fitted instead of the optional 20mm cannon, but these were late introductions and the 30mm Mk108 had too slow a fire rate and too low a muzzle velocity for effective use against fighters.

SleepTrgt 08-07-2009 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by butterfield (Post 88315)
The first thing is to start reading. There are all kinds of IL-2 guides available that will actually help you out...even for individual aircraft ;) . Google is your friend.

Here is a very nice beginner guide I remember reading some time ago. Should give you a start. Some of it pertains to the PC version and setup for online..but the aircraft, pilots and strategy section will give you a good start. According to this guide I would rank myself as class 3. There are folks onliine everyday that will tear me apart though. It's going to be very interesting to see the diffrerent levels of pilots coming into BOP's online.

http://combat-asylum.com/uploads/dow...ogfighting.pdf
I cant follow it all that well while reading, and if i do it feels different when flying myself, i guess i have to go the hard way, fly alot hehe.

thundermuffin 08-07-2009 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David603 (Post 88349)
The Rustsatz field modifications allowed for guns or other equipment to be fitted to standardised location points present on all aircraft from the G onwards. Therefore the extra 20mm cannon could be removed in the field, but without them the standard G6 armament of 1 20mm cannon and 2 13mm MGs lacked punch against bombers.

Normal solution was to have some 109s without extra armament escorting the more heavily armed bomber destroyers. Other solutions were to use Bf109s fitted with a 30mm engine mounted cannon as a permanent modification, or another Rustsatz kit with 2 30mm cannon fitted instead of the optional 20mm cannon, but these were late introductions and the 30mm Mk108 had too slow a fire rate and too low a muzzle velocity for effective use against fighters.
This has to be the biggest 'nerd-off' I've ever seen... as a matter of fact, this entire forum is NOTHING but flight nerds... you people know WAY to much about these things...
I love it :D

butterfield 08-07-2009 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thundermuffin (Post 88357)
This has to be the biggest 'nerd-off' I've ever seen... as a matter of fact, this entire forum is NOTHING but flight nerds... you people know WAY to much about these things...
I love it :D
yeah I think David should work for the history channel :grin:

The_Goalie_94 08-07-2009 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thundermuffin (Post 88357)
This has to be the biggest 'nerd-off' I've ever seen... as a matter of fact, this entire forum is NOTHING but flight nerds... you people know WAY to much about these things...
I love it :D
Agread, complete no life nerds. I really don't like it, but hey, you learn a thing or two... plus i'm bored and like the game.

butterfield 08-08-2009 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Goalie_94 (Post 88390)
Agread, complete no life nerds. I really don't like it, but hey, you learn a thing or two... plus i'm bored and like the game.
Dude if you like that you should check out the official PC forum over at UBI

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=fr...102&f=23110283

people have made this game (or WW2 fighters) their life, some of the stuff they know is unbelievable haha

Antinko1 08-08-2009 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David603 (Post 88143)
The History Channel video is interesting, and the P51 pilot was certainly very good, but I would like to see someone try to pull off the manoeuvre that scored the first kill against me. If I was that 109 pilot I would pull up, passing over the P51, and ending up positioned above, with both an energy and an altitude advantage. This would effectively be fight over, or at least me having a major advantage, with the P51 caught at low speed, not enough altitude to trade for speed and not having a low speed manoeuvrability advantage over the Bf109.
Also, isn't it true that BF-109 pilots were often concerned about pushing their plane to the absolute limit in a turn because the wings were quite weak and might snap off? I'm sure I've read that in 'Fighter: The True Story of the Battle of Britain' by Len Deighton.

Desode 08-08-2009 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David603 (Post 88305)
Yeah, a lot of people will look at any fighter with a good reputation and assume it must be fantastic at the only form of dogfighting they know, which is basic low speed Turn-n-Burn.

Therefore I fully expect to see a lot of people online trying to use the P51 in this role, and getting worked over by people who know how to use a Fw190 or Bf109 properly.
You got that right. Console people aren't going to look up the aircrafts stats and fly the plane according to their strengths. I do however disagree on the p-51. In arcade mode, yes everyone will fly it ,but I don't think hardly anyone will use it in full sim because no one will know how to use it.
Even Gunther Rall said the p51 was the best high energy fighter of WWII. Your being a BF-109 fan I'm sure you know who he is. I got to meet him when I was 15.

Personally I'm a FW 190 guy. I will however say that when it comes to Vertical S fighting I would take a P51-H.

Its going to be fun playing online when Sturmovik hits console. Thats for sure !
I hope some of the console players give Sim mode a chance and stick with it.
DESODE


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