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Well I was impressed by the difference between the dull-weather shots (this Fri) and bright-weather shots the other weeks. I think people forget how England in late August/September can look different from its normal self. My guess is that tuning everything to look good in different lighting conditions is sure to be a tough job.
I'd say let room for the critics so long as they're not obstinate or rude. If I had to pick, I'd say go for a slightly unrealistic dark look purely so that really bright things like the sun and fuel explosions etc. create a dramatic effect. The eye quickly readjusts to a 'look' so long as its consistent. The point about smoke-blackened buildings and streets is excellent, IMO. I suppose the fact that small towns and large cities use the same buildings would be a problem -- small towns in the country wouldn't suffer as much blackening. Actual smoke over such a scene in winter time would be very atmospheric -- imagine the St Paul's looming out of the winter haze as you're on the tail of a 109, or on a 'tip and run' lone raid in a Bf-110. Something to look forward to! dduff442 |
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(I'll paraphrase from memory here - perhaps someone else can track down the original quote? And with apologies to Oleg if I mangle this...) Because of the more advanced lighting model, it is no longer a simple task of just choosing the correct colours for the various textures. The lighting model used by the engine modifies and varies the underlying colour in a manner modelled on real-life physics. So, they may arrange something so that it looks perfect at low-level in bright sunlight and then find that it is way off in mist, or from a higher altitude. The difficulty lies in tweaking the parameters of the lighting model rather than in simply producing a 'once and for all' accurate colour palette. I think this may be why the ground-level shots (Spit in field, trains, etc) are generally viewed as being very good while the medium-level shots are still off. Once again, the word is 'WIP'. |
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Salute ! |
Back in the day, we didn't need any stinking green:-P
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...l/grab0000.jpg |
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wonderfull update... again :)
There is advertising in the streets! That is a very nice detail. As a graphic design student, I kind of love those old ads. Can't wait to take a closer look at them. I suspect that during the lifetime of sow, these streets will really come to life. Soon we will have some missions like this: objective 1: drive with your racing green sports car to the airbase exit. objective 2: pick up your girlfriend at her home. objective 3: find a way through London's traffic jams objective 4: find a parking place near the cinema objective 5: get her back home "safely" :grin: Oh Oleg, I have one question: Will there be churches in the towns? I don't remember seeing one in the updates. In Belgium (and I suppose in France and Britain to) there's a church in almost every village. sometimes even if the village only counts 10 houses. For regular Flemish towns, churches were the only tall buildings around. They really give image to a town. |
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Tomatoes are important factor to Italian food. EXAMPLE look of tomato. SPAGHETTI not exist if not have Tomato. Tomato cooked or raw. http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5...tolydecker.jpg Spaghetti pot http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9153/pastapot300.jpg oven control amount and intensity of heat. **back to normal** You just called Oleg Maddox an idiot! Not directly, but you just explained to a guy making a flight simulator that WIND IS IMPORTANT! Then you went on to explain that gliders need wind to fly. Maybe next you could tell him how to dress himself or tie his shoes. I'm sure he'd appreciate that as well. |
Just in case you didn't know, gliders DON'T need wind to fly ... and also, be patient with Xifon ... he's ... well ,try to be clever also for him.
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I’ve been a big fan of the Stuka ever since the B model became flyable as a patch to the original Il2 (as frankly my Dog-fighting skills suck), however I can’t say that I can ever recall the Stuka gunner AI being audible when jinking to avoid flak and seeing that the Stuka was not flyable from the outset out of the box this may explain why. As I only rarely fly soviet aircraft it tends to be a little bit of a pleasant surprise when my gunner tells me off during my erratic evasive manoeuvres, but now that I know this I might just deliberately fly inverted at low level just to piss them off ;) But most importantly I hope your son was feeling well enough to have been eventually able to get in his dive bombing practice over this weekend? I’m currently trying to convince my 13 year old to do some Il2 flying on the PC instead off those brain melting FPS games on his 360, so I bought him “IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey” to try help bring him across, but I’ll also now need to get a 360 compatible joystick instead of those game controllers. |
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Spec Jockey, I laughed so hard, you made my day. :grin:
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We have wind already in FB/1946; try to take off in a storm! |
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Hey that takes me back.....What fun days those were. Twelve hours straight flying till your butt hurt so bad it burned!!! |
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http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...4721073388/p/2 Either way, gliders do not drop like a stone the instant the wind stops blowing :D |
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You soooo made my day! ROFL! Quote:
Maybe I should send Xilon the sturmovik.de pilot training night (thunder-)storm? Quote:
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i remember during ww2 use glider airplane for night attak.
Attachment 3706 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal physic factor wind and thermal. i remember FSX use glider and thermal. and also CONDOR http://www.condorsoaring.com/ |
Xifon,
Stop panicking. Calm down. Relax, everything goes well. WIND is already modeled in Il2, no reason that it is not in BoB TURBULENCE is already modeled in Il2, no reason that it is not in BoB Oleg said that turbulence and wind gusts will be present in BoB. OK? |
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ok ok i understand oleg use the Wind and turbolence and thermal tank you.
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We must remember, this is a program. Just because smoke is rising straight up doesn't mean it isn't windy - the team probably haven't implemented wind affected smoke yet. Smoke is just another special effect...it isn't automatically moved by the wind - that has to be programmed in and I suspect that is on the to-do list.
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this is a real hause smoke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjI_n...ext=1&index=17 American flag not move because to the moon not exist wind. in il-2 sturmovik the american and japanese flags not move why? in future the BoB the flags move? england Flag move? italian flag move? german flag move? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQ...eature=related normal flag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1wt_ynFu8 ATTENCTION:i not whant offend OLEG MADDOX and 1C company this is just my observation. and normal in a forum to criticize members can observe and then improve in the future I know the game 'in the developing world. you can not 'criticizing on a product not complete. if Oleg Maddox puts photos of BOB in the forum can be viewed by many and criticized by many the goal is not 'offend. the scope and improve. |
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In games the flag is possible to make with movement without any wind... And it will be only animation of the flat surface. Sample: You can't say that you gave the life to 3D model of human because it seems in game movable.... Same with wind. The wind can be modelled as reaction of FM for this case. But this modelling will not have any effect on the flags... it would be separate modelling of animated flag, even if we have two main things for wind in code as the wind direction and its force (like in Il-2 original with this simplified explanation). |
animation separated smoke house is separated flags movement is separated to all games. i not like this.
i like if all games engine have the wind direction vector and force intensity wind. I would love if the wind and thermal forces of gravity and 'interact with all types of objects that goes into the air like smoke airplane kite etc. ecc flag. a simulator professional to these forces and interactions. tank you OLEG MADDOX and 1C company. you please loock this game and after you have another IDEA. CONDOR http://www.condorsoaring.com/ http://www.condorsoaring.com/media/s...ts/scndr01.jpg |
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I'd look at the water in IL2 when setting it up to run, but once I was flying online, I never really noticed it again. When flying a mission it's nice for things to look good, but you don't have time for pixel peeping. |
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Oleg, is there a chance of hearing some sounds from SOW in this weeks update? And how did your sons training go this weekend? :)
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Dedicated to speculum jokey
sorry S.J. my i prefer the GUITAR SPAGHETTI (spaghetti alla chitarra) simple mediterrain kichen spaghetti with tuna and parsley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR_SkyfBkes :):):) |
Hi Oleg and teamwork guys!!
Nice update! :grin: Just one question: I readed in this book: "Luftwaffe test pilot: Flying captured allied aircraft of word war two" Author: Hans-Werner Lerche and I would like highlight two things: British planes throtles: the author said that when the pilots hand is off on it, the throtle come back to 0% power. (I think that it happen in Wellington plane) German planes throtles: to the athor said that when the pilots hand is off on it, the throtle keep about 50% power. This featured is modeled in the sim? By example: if a british pilot died (only in the sim :grin:) when a power is on 100%, in the dive to the ground the power must reduce progressivevely and his plane must crash whit 0% power. Isnt it? And 50% power in german plane. A greeting |
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What you are asking with your flags moving due to wind is the equivalent of the little tube. An insane amount of processing power concentrated in an insanely small spot. |
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We fly without wind. Did you mean: Dear Oleg Maddox, if simulator SoW doesn't have thermals that's negative. thermals are an important physic factor. gliders won't fly verry long without thermals. I think you meant that right? otherwise it is just complete nonsense, even now it's stupid. hot air rises, so can we thermal above burning factories, cities? |
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FSX gliding is terrible, you can pull the glider up 300 metres or something by pulling the stick, if you land (In FSX you just point the glider down and hit the ground... landing!)you won't fall on 1 wing tip, the glider just stands on the ground on 1 weel, etc. The glider flight in FSX is just not realistic. |
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Hi Oleg,
Could you tell us something about training? Also, last year (or two years ago? :D) you confirmed that the air gunnery training will be helped by having a "predictive pipper", a sort of red point showing at all moments where to aim. It looked a great idea for novices. Is it still in your plans? Cheers, Insuber |
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In IL-2, there is wind and turbulence but it is not modeled "well" (the game is 10 years old after all). Flying in a real light aircraft or in a more modern sim dedicated to flight (not combat), the effects of wind are more apparent. These things (wind and turbulence) will be modeled better in SoW if I have read past postings correctly. Crosswind landings may take some extra skill. How did I do? :) Thermals: I don't know of any general aviation flight sim that models thermals "well" for gliding. What I do know is that programming for such things and doing it well takes a lot of resources (from what I have heard from developers of other flight sims). It would not surprise me that a dedicated glider sim does the best job. But we don't do a lot of gliding in combat sims :). Splitter |
I am quoting myself from the other day as I believe my post (questions) was missed. :)
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I knew there would be wind, it was even mentioned in the pre-alpha video on youtube, sorry for the confusion. |
hi Oleg,
thank you for answering questions! Will the people/soldiers in BOB run out of their vehicles, when we are attacing them, like it was in IL 2. Sorry if this was asked before. |
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I'm sure SOW's clouds look better. They only have to change their botoms! ;) The clouds of condor are to far away from eachother and they are a bit too big, And they accually have no textures, they aren't shiney. [edit] I looked again at condor clouds and I have to say SOW already has better clouds. hmmm, they look better than I thought.... from up close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpsxk8y9mDM [an other edit] I really don't understand what you want Philip, one update you want a pretty picture of a cloud hanging in the sky (REX like), and this update only thing that matters about the clouds is the flat botom (condor). |
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In almost every game you get a white cockpit when flying into clouds, this always irritates me, also in ROF.
as you can see here: you can see the top of the mountain clearly, but when you get there everything becomes white, because they think you are in the cloud :mad: 2:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AXEU...eature=related I really hope it won't be like that in SOW.. |
I stand by my opinion; notice the shadows on the cloud-bottoms. This is lacking in SoW and really adds to the realism. I can see what you mean though; they do look a bit cartoony, but the general shape looks more realistic to me.
It's a mixed bag really. It's just my opinion; SoW has the ground to have awesome clouds, but to me they just look a bit like cotton-balls. |
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The spitfire vid of SoW shows some nice clouds.
And it can only have gotten better. Same goes for the scenery. Only thing I'm hoping for is some less hard defined edges between buildings and earth. And some grime so you escape to the clear blue skies with a sigh of relief |
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Apart from a certain cartoony-nature, what is wrong with the cloud models in that game? The shape is certainly more realistic than SoW, and consider this the lighting is too. |
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Here are some clouds from IL2. (See PM BTW) |
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http://i52.tinypic.com/2arzus.png |
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have you played sow? you are beta tester? good for you if yes (quote)Dutch_851 Aw, and I went to all that trouble of posting pictures of real clouds without flat bottoms!:smile: Here are some clouds from IL2. flat cloud base in il2 without somebody telling oleg years ago? wow |
Il-2's flat-cloud base is partially there, yes ;)
I'm not a BETA tester; I'm just basing my (limited) knowledge on shots shown. ;) |
Have a look at this :
http://www.youtube.com/user/orbxtube#p/u/4/fQ2kyHmXTss Of course, I know we can't ask for the same levels of details in a combat sim (with all the other parameters to compute outside the graphical aspects), but something heading this way, at least for the color palette and the natural implantation of the elements. |
Oleg:
Will we have waving gras according to the prop wind? |
For instance, look at the greens here...
http://fullterrain.com/product_aublue.html http://fullterrain.com/product_ymav.html ... they just look right (even if a few of them are a little bit on the "Velvia" side, but nevertheless quite natural). |
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Mr Maddox has made it quite clear, on more than one occasion, that we have never seen the final result of what SoW will look like. I've posted a few comparisons myself, but this week he's been quite emphatic about the screenshots being old ones, they're building a new version, and we'll have to wait to see the real final result. I really don't see any mileage in continuing to post comparisons, whether clouds or landscape. Once we do see the final result, then we can post comparisons, if we can tear ourselves away from our joysticks.;) |
The whole "terrain colors bla bla" discussion is completely fruitless. Apart from the fact that Oleg said himself THE COLORS ARE WIP, it's obvious in the last screenshots that the terrain is not rendered as in the final product, meaning missing global illumination, lighting, HDR, haze and what not and that it has been rendered differently in almost every update. That is when people claim to notice "progress". Nonsense, it's nothing else than different machines and specs in the studio and different rendering and lighting stages with some tweaks here and there. Who knows, there may even be a second or third or fourth texture layer missing in the terrains. Early Oleg interviews indicate just that. The planes work that way -- why not the terrain? What do we know about it? Zip, that's how much.
Give it a rest already. You can't change zero with all your I-linked-to-a-photo-from-the-internet-screenshots and youtube videos. Oleg has thousands of photos of England taken by himself on his hardrives and he will do what he thinks looks correct. |
some questions
Hi Oleg,
I posted the comment below this weekend, and assume it got lost in the backlog. I do not need an answer, but would appreciate it if you considered doing something like it or better in a patch / future release (fear it may be too late for launch). Others have commented, and I believe rightly, that fields of the era did not show wide tracks from tractors. Reducing or removing these would also reduce the "I plowed, and then there came a railroad" effect. Aerodynamically: Will ground effect be modeled? I have not been able to detect it in IL2, and it definitely should be there. The effect was discovered in WW2 by shot up bomber crews who miraculously stopped sinking when reaching wave-top altitudes. Managing to get over the white cliffs could be difficult, but I believe few cared. Finally: Will aircraft tow a wingtip vortex field and a prop-wash field? These could easily be modeled using time-dampening potential flow elements (adapted panel method), and would also add substantially to the immersion for aircraft flying close to one another. Flutter Quote:
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This is a discussion thread on this weeks update if you havnt noticed, im always polite in how i post and until told by Oleg or the mods here to not to, i will carry on. |
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As always, Oleg and crew are doing some great work with BOB:SOW. The wait will be worth it IMHO. :-D
Besides, there's no sense in rushing things only to have the need for several patches made to fix things that weren't finished for the release. They are doing the right thing no matter how impatient some are. |
(quote)Flutter
Others have commented, and I believe rightly, that fields of the era did not show wide tracks from tractors. I'm not sure why you think a field with wide rows indicate a tractor passed over the field. Some crops demand a greater distance from one another, and so "wide"could have been made using a horse back then. One thing though, is that most farm field rows are plowed running north/south to allow for maximum sunlight exposure, east/west at times to control erosion.:grin: |
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I'm thinking of a selectable option (i.ex.: red, blue, yellow, orange, white, etc. rudders), like choosing a squadron (or nose art) in iL2. This would be nice as most of our flights are arranged in colors (white flight, orange flight, etc.). Anyway thanks again, and keep up the good work!!! |
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on-off switches.
Sorry to ask again...
Can Mr. Oleg tell me if BOB SOW will have the possibillity of adding on/of switches instead of having only the momentary switches like the ones on the keyboard? Or it will only be possible to do it by using a program to map keys? I know some games that have it, some RC games (radio controled sim.) Its very usefull to people who want to build pannels and stuff like that. I hope it includes that possibillity... I enjoy all your team work, and tank you for the updates. |
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Yes, I was attempting to say something similar in a previous post.
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Not talking about plowed fields here SlipBall. Please look again at the image linked here. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...9&d=1287325120 Those lines are 100% modern day tractor tramlines for the application of sprays and fertilisers without damaging the developing crop. I should know...I've spent hundreds of hours making them! I've noticed that the majority of textures associated with cereal crops shown so far have been incorrectly given tramlines. The following link provides all the details you need to know including how they are produced. If you scroll down you'll notice the second to last photo matches what we see in the SoW fields. This is all modern day agricultural practice. http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/tramlines.cfm Interestingly, I've just noticed this quote in the article text: "Tramlines became widespread in their use in the agricultural revolution of the 1950s and 60s. Tramlines are of vital importance in the modern farming environment because they prevent overlapping applications of fertiliser and pesticide and because they allow spot or selective treatments to be carried out accurately. Nowadays tramlines can be seen throughout most of the western world and are often inaccurately present in films about the past, watch Gladiator carefully next time!" Ploughed fields will contain furrow lines and these will be identical whether produced by a horse or tractor drawn plough. Cut hay and other crops may also appear in roughly even lines. It is the tramlines only that is being debated here. |
Careful Sutts, dont point out anything that might be slighty not correct, even if you have spent 100s hours making them yourself. ;)
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OK...I'm not knowledged enough on this subject, to argue any points you made in your post.:grin: |
So we have here:
- experts of WWII fields - experts of BOB country colors - experts of RAF flight goggles - experts of flight suits - experts of clouds (not so many thou ... :)) - experts of 110 antennas - experts of locomotives - ... I can continue ... Chapeau ... personally I just want an honest combat flight simulation and I feel so lonely ! Hey anyone else out there like me ? ;D |
Seriously, some of u people need to take a biig step back and start living.
Jesus H..... Edit: from another forum, im suprised noone has commentet on the wrong type of rooftiling used in olegs screens. Im sure though someone will be here shortly doing just that. Flight sim community just blows my mind over and over again. (not in a good way mind u) |
Thank you Sutts for that. Aware of from observation but not the detail or technicalities. Most enlightening.
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These are little details but they do matter. What is the point of Oleg getting the buildings, boundaries and roads of 1940s Britain bang on when 1000s of acres of agricultural land proves that this is in fact a modern landscape? Kind of kills the illusion I'd say. All we're talking about is making the cereal textures plain instead of tramlined, that's all. I bet there's only about 5 textures to change. |
i think ALL of us want that Insuber, IL2 is with out doubt the best sim(or game for that matter) that ive ever owned.
We all prob have 1000s of hours flying IL2 thanks to Oleg, i know i have. And we all want the best for SOW, now if some of us spot things that we think could be closer to the real thing, then why not point them out? Now if Oleg then agrees and changes these small things then whats the harm? If he doesnt agree or hasnt time to change them, thats his choice, its his sim, he can and will do what he feels is right, its not going to make any of us not buy the game. |
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A small comparison with WoP that has been mentioned here (got in a bit too low and some guy in a spit joined my 2 player host while going on my photo run and shot me down so no second attempt ;))
It's getting hard to say which one is best now... http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9885/bobcompare2.jpg http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3022/wopcompare2.jpg |
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With respect, these things are a lot more obvious than a darn roofing slate. They literally shout MODERN TECHNOLOGY BELOW. Now, it may not seem important to many but just wait until people start producing the historically accurate movies that Oleg hinted at. It was bad enough watching Memphis Belle with all those modern fields in the background. If Oleg has a chance to make the environment historically correct then I think he will choose to do it, I don't care when. |
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Just an observation as a former freelance photographer.
Many of the photos people are preferring as "more correct" have clearly been taken with a polarized lens. Polarised lenses with landscape photos give a more dramatic result. From an observers point of view the effect on the image is similar to putting on a pair of high quality sunglasses on a sunny day. |
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Just look at the aircraft. Then look at the water. Then look at the towns. Then look at the overall 'mood' of the shots. The blokes at 1c Maddox games will produce the goods. As I said earlier, given the news we've been given this week, it's too late for comparisons or recommendations for the initial release. We're on the home stretch. Have a bit of faith, and remember the initial release is only the initial release. If recommendations and comparisons are necessary after release, so be it. That's what the forum is for. I'm really looking forward to the next ten years, when all these 'games' that the screenshots have been compared to have all been forgotten, and we'll all be wondering why on earth we moaned. Like Insuber said, we just want a good combat flight sim. I think we're going to get a terrific one. |
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I'm blown away by the thought of the developer actually saying they're modeling all of 1940 London.
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I don't consider you an expert in locomotives. You are god. |
Another God is the person who has done the weather modelling :)
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Original: http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3022/wopcompare2.jpg Colour Corrected (Only colour balance changed. No contrast, exposure changes made): http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7...compare2cc.jpg |
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Yes you are perfectly right. Not all but many was done by this way if it was professional photograper. In my photos that I was shooting from the air myself I didn't use polarizer, however in a soft I was removing the effect what is doing the glass of windows and canopy. |
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