Several?
Unfortunately I'm in Australia when most other buggers are in bed lol. Still, there are a 'couple' of ATAG servers with a good turn up. Mostly around the 30 mark for one ATAG server and 10 on the other. Mostly blokes from Yankie land on, and they're a good fun mob to yarn and fly with.

Tanks and artillery ?

Big problem in IL2 you had to have line of sight between the artillery/ tank... and the target.

There was no trajectory arc possible, just straight line of site shooting and target had to be visible from artillery/tank.

No shooting over hills or landscape at unseen targets.

It would be nice to have real world type targeting, with trajectory arc possible to long range targets.

Real world tanks use trajectory arcs for targeting as well.

Well Orpheus got banned anyway so I guess the rules of the forum are also " Banned if your opinion differs from the mods" I thought the whole point in moving to points base bans was to avoid all this discrimination.

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have a Battle Of Moscow thread, then BlackSix could put all the updates in there that are relevant to that game, pictures of Il2's etc have nothing to do with Cliffs Of Dover and may confuse any newcomers. If there are no updates for CLOD then fine but personally I find waiting for Friday only to see updates of a future project that I have no interest in is a little frustrating.

Good idea Tree, I'm all for it too.

lol so minding good manners is only limited to friendship?You curse to every stranger that you meet in your real life days then? Excellent standards, I give you that:rolleyes:

Battle of Moscow addon.

Stand-alone expansion.

I think it's a matter of perception. Some things bother you more and you put them forward in an awkward manner as a result, or overlooking that others say the same thing because they don't share the aggressive tone you would prefer (the "you" is impersonal/general, not you specifically). It's human nature, but that's why we have posting guidelines and rules in the first place, to avoid it becoming too much to handle.

I struggle to find people among the mods saying that everything is fine with the sim.

Phat was the resident hardware testing guy before he became a moderator, he was mighty annoyed when his mega-expensive rigs couldn't run it well (before we got the first round of optimization patches).

Speaking for myself, i'm probably among the people who documented the majority of control logic inconsistencies or flaws in specific aircraft systems, the other people in this group being the dedicated bomber pilots on ATAG like Doc, Keller, Major Boris, jimbop and possibly a few more that i'm forgetting right now.

You know what's the difference between what they do and what people who get infraction points do? The guys above report problems, which means they took time to research, replicate and work-around them and are trying to do something useful that will help others enjoy the sim more.

The other group we're dealing with usually just vents their frustrations. I can't use that to better my game experience and it gets tiresome after a while.

So, the rules are geared not to push the problems under the carpet, but to have a meaningful discussion about them. If something useful comes out of a post/thread, it's surely preferable to another one which complains about the same things but does nothing more than simply complain and leave it at that.

I hope you understand what i'm trying to say and that i'm explaining it well enough.

As for the supporters of the sim, don't worry. Getting dragged in "that kind" of argument will mean they will get their share of infraction points too.

Last clean-up i did on this thread i deleted posts from all kinds of people, "whiners" and "fanboys" alike, including one of my own, because we were all discussing things irrelevant to the update content itself (like we are doing now, but i think it's important to help ease the community into the new system and give everyone a fair chance).


I guess Orpheus got banned because he had points accumulate over time from breaking the rules. I don't know, i didn't ban him, but that's the way it works. If what you said was true, then you, Tree and Furbs wouldn't post here at all because i disagree with your opinions (nothing personal, just examples of people who have a different opinion that mine).

Yet you all do from time to time and when you don't, it's because you decided to collect points. I'm just a clerk behind a desk doing a robot's job, because that how you maintain impartiality when moderating: you don't let your opinion about the person influence your judgement, you just go "rule X broken, here's 5 points for you".

That's the only way it can work with any semblance of being fair.

This whole discussion reminds me of school: when a student would do well in an exam he would go "i passed!", but when he didn't do well he'd say "the teacher flunked me".

Well, our demographic as a hobby means we're mostly adult people here, so i think we can take responsibility for what do. Everyone can act the way they want to act and reap the consequences, positive or negative.

I'm closing this down for a couple of days (it's already unstickied anyway and we have a new update), to let things calm down and the message sink in.