I agree they are unlikely to let the community upstage them. I've very mixed feelings about the whole business and feel an opportunity has been lost but lately I had become resigned to 1C no longer being up to the job and that BoM would not have been much better (as a game engine and content) than CoD so perhaps it will be for the best.

Hero to Zero in 18 months.

So the new management, with "great" understanding decided to downgrade CloD to a lesser product.

They could keep CloD as it is, and apply the expanding concept from RoF.

A pitty, it took Olegs almost six years to understand the ground concept for game enrichment, and there it comes some genius that go to the managing practice of showing everybody that he is doing something...

Well, the same as everywhere I suppose.

I should be happy, having lived the whole il2 process. It was a golden era, like 80's music. Then financial managers came and everything goes commercial.

Is it good news?,well i suppose the other options aren't any better.Clod is dead so alot of people have spent good money chasing bad,how do we know how good the new sim will be.
Personally i have no interest in the Russian front now,il2 did that.

People that enjoy real simulations you mean and followed IL2 from the start?

Or arcade fan-boy's like yourself that just want to shoot everything down without regard for realism?

Gloat whilst you can, because if 777 don't get it right, Jason will find himself just like Luthier did, sitting on the top of the '1' in 1c.

Let us be honest, a great slab of the work invested into CoD involved getting the maps historically correct, the airfields historical and attempting to get the 40's feel and look historical for the period but that all turned out to be of no interest to the majority of players, or at least the majority posting on forums.

In the end it turned out what people really wanted was the ability to showoff their elite gaming skills in an online 3D flying FPS with awesome graphics and who cares about historical accuracy.

The new sim sounds like it will be awesome for showing off elite gaming skills in an online 3D flying FPS with awesome graphics without to much attention to historical detail mucking up the online game balance.

Sounds to me that people are getting exactly what they have been asking for.

I can't agree with that. Historically correct maps? Barely, not considering the data available, its more like one of those simplified maps from a tourist guide. Historical airfields? No, just airfields put mostly in the right place with some correct runways (and too many unuseable runway surfaces). The attempt to make it look and feel like the 1940's fell short of making it feel like the BoB or historical basically due to the poor FMB which is why offline and basic on-line campaigns are naff. On-line campaigns are now only beginning to feel like the BoB because of the amount of work put into them by some of the dedicated members of the community, not easy when it calls for extensive complex scripting. The poor FMs don't help it feel historical or like the BoB either. They got close to getting it right then jumped ship.

What do we want? Most guys I meet on line want realism not FPS.

Awesome graphics? Yes I'd go with that for CoD, it is a big step forward but BoS will be Dx9. Can Dx9 deliver CoD-standard grapics? The RoF graphics don't impress me. In this respect CoD raised the bar.

My worry is that we will get exactly what we haven't been asking for. We can only wait and see.

Ground Objects, frame-rate, historical accuracy, new A/C ....................Just make Co-ops work that's all we need............

Regards,

+1

Hello Punch
:grin:

How you doing m8......................been a long time :)

None of this would have happened, had CLoD been half as good and appealing as it was supposed to be after years of unending development and heart melting promises. In the end, they were overwhelmed, they botched it, they got deaf to critics, and it was a dud. Planes were few, the campaign was a bore lacking all immersion, the FMB was a joke, the engine was stuttery and too demanding, and terrain colors were terrible Van-Goghesque pastels.

CLoD was a failure. The price to pay, is that industry does not trust anymore in the conoisseur-targeted formula. They have a business, you know, and they want it to be profitable. CLoD is not.

Of course, if they go for the mean and greedy micro-DLC business formula they used in ROF, I'm out of this one, too. And pray they don't resurrect that stupid constant online DRM they used then, now that is somehow fashionable again.

I have my doubts that the R0F folks can pull it off as well.

Sure they will have a title called IL2, and it will work on many different spec machines, but, it is being built on an old engine that is severely limited in capabilities.

I guess I'm just jaded after all this time.

I hope the new sim will be good, nay, great. But I expect it will be mediocre at best.

Hope I'm wrong.

And who the heck are you, some blow in character who presumes to know me?? :evil:

RoF will pull of BoS, but only because they aim their standards very low and only need to satisfy the arcade crowd who wants a "pretty" looking game with planes in it, its not the next il2 sim, its RoF with a few ww2 planes and a different scenery.

they are not concerned with modeling Stalingrad as a large city with multiple object, neither are they concerned to provide a large amount of ground objects as tanks, vehicles or opposing frontline infantry positions. and you wont have highly realistic flight physics being modeled or flight being simulating in real time either, nor will you be able to have 100 players online with a large amount of AI aircraft or AI ground activity at the same time. remember the front lines on the RoF maps ? its just a vague grey line without objects, the maps are empty sterile places without activity. to give you some perspective on the realism of their flight models,my 5 yo nephew could takeoff on the 1e attempt successfully, fly around and shoot up some things, and make a pretty decent landing. and that is for some of the aircraft that were the most tricky and difficult to fly in aviation history. i looked forward to any sim recreating that era partic the pre war and early war aircraft that were more eccentric and varied, with odd and difficult controls, but RoF is complete arcade junk compared to what it should be to claim the "simulator" description. if people like it and are willing to pay 500$ for it and fall for the teflon marketing excuses that you have to keep funding it, be my guest, they only need a few 1000 fools out of a planet of billions to be a success, but for those aspiring to somebody with the right pedigree creating a worthwhile ww2 sim, you'r looking in the wrong place, it wont be jason's re-skinned RoF game that will do it.

so in that sense, yes, "RoF will be a success". they are selling they product to a different crowd, teens with pocket money and a limited attention span and not to much ability to grasp complex issues

remember, RoF did not get the il2 aircraft flight model codes, they are getting the modelers who draw and paint the planes, not the technical staff who actually make the realistic flight physics.

but get ready for the marketing push that is already mindlessly repeated by the spotty faced teen crowd "its just like il2 sturmovik, 'cause i am full real and it says so on the box". but its gonna be boring, with an empty lifeless world and arcade style gameplay and grafix (as RoF already is now). and yes, RoF will make money for 1C (and teflon jason), so they all will be happy

but for those of us that had high hopes on receiving our next installment in the il2 sturmovick line and progress to a very advanced complex flightsim with incredible detail and advanced realistic flight models, they killed of the project barely 2 months into into life. other then DCS's p51 project and the new gfx engine to be released in 12 months time, i see nothing else on the horizon for at least a decade

lol for a newcomer he got you pegged pretty well

+1

You gotta stop reading these for your information! LOL :rolleyes:

[IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f5...ps880591f5.jpg[/IMG]

If all else fails, this might be more up your alley ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxaYcQ49FLg

The Eight Ball about sums it up "Don't Count On It!" ;)

tree,

lol how can you even keep up with all those different nick registrations

it should give you a bit of a hint you keep getting banned for them on all these different forums, have a look in your mirror, maybe you can see what the rest of see in you (no prize money for that one, to easy), hint if you cant see it, see if you can smell it :)

oooo and what joy you had on the cancellation of BoM, letting out little squeaks of delight you could barely type straight you were so overjoyed another promising flightsim is cancelled, but you do realize you gonna have to run with a handful of dollars to teflon jason every few weeks when he plays his "if you dont buy more crap junk from us now we are going to close and you wont have anything" fiddle ? I DONT THINK SO ! somehow i dont see little tree spending 100's of dollars to hop on that band wagon lol

just be aware that with your complete misreading of what this ww2-RoF game is going to be like, you've just started to pretend RoF's BoS is going to be some great high tech marvel, with flightmodels better then il2 and CoD, with better and more detailed plane models, better modeling of aircraft components and subsystems with more complex damage models, better more detailed scenery, more objects on the ground and in the air, servers with more players online then the 90 now possible with CoD (yes you even missed the netcode was fixed lol), more detailed damage models for aircraft inside and external, better realistic weather systems, modeling of real time radar systems, highly detailed low level scenery with moving grass/crops, extended clar visibility to the horizon,...... and..... and.......hang on, you dont REALLY believe that do you ? because with your limited intelectual abilities you havnt even thought that far now eh ? because i am ready with my little wager again that it wont be anything like that summary i just gave lol :) and you bloody well know it ! so start slithering back to the rock you came out from ya yello belly, 'cause all you got is the whining, it is ALL YOU ARE ! and ever have been :)

but none of that matters to you does it, all you do is moan and bitch and you get a little tingle in your nether region every-time you get attention by the low IQ teens who gather around you like flies on a turd. that behavior in medical terms is called a perversion tree, its when you get your emotional reward system cross-wired and you feel good by doing bad or harmful things to others, you know the same way the pyromaniacs do when they light a fire, oooo how exited they get. just like little tree who with sweaty palms types his next thread turd and seeks attention with his petulant whining

now go rinse the sand out of your man-gina, and tell your little RoF chums how fantastic you think their little arcade sim is going to be, untill, well, when you wake up and see they are only producing a much inferior product.

the sad thing is, you'r not even smart enough to understand what has just happened and how close flight-simmers came to get a truly amazing sim that would have dwarfed anything il2 ever was, but then again that not really including you is it ?

Oh the irony!

:mrgreen:

Show some respect Zap, after all he was the leader of the resistance...in history, they usually get hung by their mases, when things don't work out too well.:-P

There's one good thing about being as negative about a new product as you are, and that is you wont be or cant be disappointed.

Might try it meself sometime. :D

Unfortunately, that's all true for RoF and/or will most likely be true for BoS aswell, unless they fix all that in a few months (about same time as they are working on the Channel map alone now). I thought the CloD were too vibrant and not at all pastel like, atleast compared with the RoF colors, but oh well.

I don't care who develops this next sim, but it will take a very long time until we'll get a complex WW2 flightsim like that. The 2014 release date will either mean low content, bugs or both. They should take their time and get it right for once.

You know, most of the threads on this forum has reduced itself to something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=hNz1CgVa46E

[IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f5...ps2c45ece7.jpg[/IMG]

Still haven't changed that crystal ball? :grin:





Might be a case of Tree paranoia, so you better purchase one of these.;)

[IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f5...psfec67484.jpg[/IMG]


It might also be a case of !!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM
:rolleyes:

Either way, your vitriol is highly entertaining. As young Mr Grace would say "Keep up the good work". :lol:

tree

i hate to tell you this, but you'r actually quite boring

there is nothing else to you except the constant bitching and moaning, no substance, no intellect, no understanding, no reasoning. just a mindless loop of never evolving repetition of the same negative crap

and i find your glee and joy at the discontinuation of the SoW series distasteful, but it shows you up for the small minded petulant little git you are. you were overjoyed that CoD had problems at release time, never recognized or understood the major improvements that were made with the patches a year later, and now again are squeaking with delight when the whole series is discontinued

there is just one major problem with this for you that you dont even realise,all you got left now is the bland cartoon RoF arcade hell with teflon jason coming to pick your pickets every 20 min so he can buy a bigger house and a newer car, without ever creating anything that comes actually close to being a true ww2 aviation simulator, enjoy what you asked for, 'cause thats all you gonna get

lol, so your not taking me up on the bet ? thought so :) once identified as a yellow belly little skunk, your character is unlikely to change

Your slagging off Jason of 777 who are in partnership with 1C on a 1C forum. Good luck with that Zap.

yeah zap, that's almost as bad as slagging off Luthier on a 1C forum while he was working exclusively for 1C, and nobody ever did that now.....

lol, love it, keep going Zappy baby, its great how I can wind you up so tight. :grin::grin::grin::grin: what a muppet.

I never said it was ok. ;)

Sorry to piss on your parade Zap, but the person you are attacking here isn't Tree.... its funny though.

From Zap...

tree,

lol how can you even keep up with all those different nick registrations

it should give you a bit of a hint you keep getting banned for them on all these different forums, have a look in your mirror, maybe you can see what the rest of see in you (no prize money for that one, to easy), hint if you cant see it, see if you can smell it

oooo and what joy you had on the cancellation of BoM, letting out little squeaks of delight you could barely type straight you were so overjoyed another promising flightsim is cancelled, but you do realize you gonna have to run with a handful of dollars to teflon jason every few weeks when he plays his "if you dont buy more crap junk from us now we are going to close and you wont have anything" fiddle ? I DONT THINK SO ! somehow i dont see little tree spending 100's of dollars to hop on that band wagon lol

just be aware that with your complete misreading of what this ww2-RoF game is going to be like, you've just started to pretend RoF's BoS is going to be some great high tech marvel, with flightmodels better then il2 and CoD, with better and more detailed plane models, better modeling of aircraft components and subsystems with more complex damage models, better more detailed scenery, more objects on the ground and in the air, servers with more players online then the 90 now possible with CoD (yes you even missed the netcode was fixed lol), more detailed damage models for aircraft inside and external, better realistic weather systems, modeling of real time radar systems, highly detailed low level scenery with moving grass/crops, extended clar visibility to the horizon,...... and..... and.......hang on, you dont REALLY believe that do you ? because with your limited intelectual abilities you havnt even thought that far now eh ? because i am ready with my little wager again that it wont be anything like that summary i just gave lol and you bloody well know it ! so start slithering back to the rock you came out from ya yello belly, 'cause all you got is the whining, it is ALL YOU ARE ! and ever have been

but none of that matters to you does it, all you do is moan and bitch and you get a little tingle in your nether region every-time you get attention by the low IQ teens who gather around you like flies on a turd. that behavior in medical terms is called a perversion tree, its when you get your emotional reward system cross-wired and you feel good by doing bad or harmful things to others, you know the same way the pyromaniacs do when they light a fire, oooo how exited they get. just like little tree who with sweaty palms types his next thread turd and seeks attention with his petulant whining

now go rinse the sand out of your man-gina, and tell your little RoF chums how fantastic you think their little arcade sim is going to be, untill, well, when you wake up and see they are only producing a much inferior product.

the sad thing is, you'r not even smart enough to understand what has just happened and how close flight-simmers came to get a truly amazing sim that would have dwarfed anything il2 ever was, but then again that not really including you is it ?


tree

i hate to tell you this, but you'r actually quite boring

there is nothing else to you except the constant bitching and moaning, no substance, no intellect, no understanding, no reasoning. just a mindless loop of never evolving repetition of the same negative crap

and i find your glee and joy at the discontinuation of the SoW series distasteful, but it shows you up for the small minded petulant little git you are. you were overjoyed that CoD had problems at release time, never recognized or understood the major improvements that were made with the patches a year later, and now again are squeaking with delight when the whole series is discontinued

there is just one major problem with this for you that you dont even realise,all you got left now is the bland cartoon RoF arcade hell with teflon jason coming to pick your pickets every 20 min so he can buy a bigger house and a newer car, without ever creating anything that comes actually close to being a true ww2 aviation simulator, enjoy what you asked for, 'cause thats all you gonna get

lol, so your not taking me up on the bet ? thought so once identified as a yellow belly little skunk, your character is unlikely to change
__________________


Seriousy Zap? You dont think you sound a bit off your head mate?

Tree, you really push his buttons dont you.

Though honestly i almost fell of my chair laughing! cheers!

......and just for the record little Zappy baby, I have not said anything about what I think BOS will be like, so please apologize there's a good chap.

There is only one problem Furbs, It aint Tree. Wish it was though, LOL.;)

I think he's suffering from a serious case of

[IMG]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f5...ps9a301b21.jpg[/IMG]

:grin:

Yeah, pushing button is fun, shame we won't be able to in BoS....

your a hypocrite furbs

you've never complained the tirade of abuse directed at oleg or luthier, worse, most of the time your part of the one doing the insulting

hypocrite !

lol, as if anything said by you is worth something

if it looks like a turd, smells like a turd, and all it does is bitch and moan about CoD, luthier, or oleg, it's gotta be tree :)

I never said anything personal about Luthier, complained at his development of COD yes, personal insults, no.

And yet you are somehow better than Tree, with your constant bitching, moaning and whining about not only Tree, but also how idiotic BoS will be, despite very little about BoS actually being known yet and it still being about 2 years off? Somehow you're better than Tree because you will get personal on a grand scale every time anyone actually speaks against you?

There's a saying that one shouldn't throw stones in a glass house. In your case, that's looking more and more like mountain-throwing.

In fact, I'm partial to actually defending Tree a bit, even though I don't particularly like him nor his approach to things. A troll he might well be, but at least he was usually not as vitriolic as you and the other resident troll Adonys is.

And yet strangely, that you're doing the exact same thing about BoS is okay? Odd how that goes.

i think you might have missed the announcement, go read it and inform yourself.

BoS is essentially a spruced up RoF with a few ww2 aircraft and some new ground textures. they dont have the il2sturmovik flight model code, and most of the other aspects of what make a flightsim will be significantly inferior. its essentially the RoF ww2 sim the RoF group were already were working on, but its now funded by 1C and allowed to use the sturmovik name in return for a slice of the profits.

as was put earlier

and that about sums it up :)

tree and his little chums are cheering and squeaking in delight, and they dont even understand what giant step backwards this whole BoS will be, because from the start it is designed to be something very very different compared to the next gen SoW sturmovik series

i dont think bom will be a Great Succes, the only thing that can move you to buy it , its because ROF is a succes, and there are no more modern ww2 sims whit russian theatre out there...

I'll make it simple for you, then: If you don't like it, don't buy it. It is really that simple. And when it does come around, I'll take a look at it and then decide if I like it or not.

And you do seem extremely adamant in that BoS, a product you haven't seen, haven't played and haven't experienced, will be a giant step backwards. I find your attitude to be strange and so ass-backwards that I have a very hard time seeing the logic of it all.

Zap, can you post a link where ive gloated over the death of COD, or squealed even a tiny bit of delight.

Im happy that the next sim will be made by 777 and 1C yes, but ive no made any post gloating the death of COD.

The thing is this Zappy, you claim that I didn't support CLOD, well I did, I paid the full retail price for it when it was released. You however have openly admitted here on these forums that you waited for CLOD to be in the 'crap rack' before you purchased it. Enough said.


Good to see the moderators are on top of the personal attacks, great work boys.

Gents, why continue to argue?

Cliffs of Dover is now abandonware.

It doesnt' matter anymore.

Abandonware, you mean like old software everyones .. umm abandoned? In 12 months time, CLOD will probably still be the best WW2 sim, and the best BOB sim for many years to come.

I wish they'd abandon it in my direction ..

.

You mean like DX9 games?

Hold on here, I'm no fan boy of the RoF enigne, so don't pin that nonsense on me.

All I'm saying is that the developer has abandoned this title. Hence the term abandonware. NO more support, NO more updates, No more anything from 1C for it.

I'll still fly it, but, over time it will end up on the heap of forgotten games, with maybe a dozen or so folks still playing it.

And don't expect this forum to stay up forever either. 1C has placed their eggs in another basket. Continuing to support this "communtiy" will be counterproductive to their goal of making the new sim a success.

Not saying I like it, just facing reality.

Facing reality is hard :(

Exactly! There's plenty life left in that engine. We'll still play it years from now. There's no way a ROF team can get anything at that level in the next five years....unless they go back to the CLOD engine.

Absolutely Jaws! Clod will live on for year's, nothing could come close in the next 3-4 years...when improve, they will all flock back to it.

I think people are forgetting the (probably optimistic) expected release date for the (initially probably buggy) new sim is not this year or next year but in 2014.

Unless people are content, in the interim, to just play ROF and IL2_1946 and/or waste time stalking the new sim forums petulantly demanding updates and complaining about the color of the trees for the next year or two ... CoD will still have a bit of life in it yet.

I hope it does improve!

In sim development terms, 2014 is just around the corner. There are people still enjoying EAW too, so I suspect there will still be people using clod many years from now.

I think it was very irresponsible of 1C/777 in opening up the new forum so soon. With nothing new to show us it was just an invitation to start arguments.

Maybe they should have waited until they had something concrete to show us like in game video's and screen shots. (I know they posted 4 on blue backgrounds. but didn't go to the trouble of arranging the views ).

Instead we will have arguments and flare ups because there is nothing else to do.

I got into ROF yesterday, and maybe I need to work on my settings because it was bland and lifeless.

I also managed to bounce on landing and put my SE5a on it's back! (yes I have been supporting them over the years by collecting aircraft as they have come available)

The sad thing was even though my Vickers gun (which is mounted on the cowling was rendered inoperative - the Lewis gun on the upper wing (buried under ground at this stage) still worked fine the rounds leaving the ground a few metres in front of the plane! Hey I even managed to reload it at one point!

Mention anything like this at the new forum and you get denounced a ROF hater and a get given a sermon by evangelistic ROF Fanatics! (I'm not sure if they've read the big "IL2 Sturmovik at the top of the page) The worst (In my opinion) is the sentiment of "It's only a game" and "entertainment title". The reason I fly CFS’s and spend hours on line and receive immense satisfaction from being awarded 0.2 of a kill is that in some very little way I get to appreciate what the veterans went through all those years ago. A ‘Game’ won’t cut it for me. I want to be working in a team using vaguely historic tactics in as lifelike a setting as possible.

With such wildly different expectations of what an IL2 title should be like there is no wonder that there are so many threads being locked.
Anyway, over at the new forum I tend to be biting my tongue a lot more than over here and ignoring a lot of one sided views.

They seem to be using the term "CloD Crowd" as a derogatory label. I for one am taking it as an honorific!

Doesn’t feel like home over there yet. I guess time will tell.

The new forum is very reminiscent of the way things were/are at the SimHQ RoF forum. No criticism tolerated by the rabid fanboys.

Mention the dull/lifeless/sterile world of RoF and all you hear are distant crickets chirping. Bring up a question about the engine's ability to handle the large number of ground objects necessary in a modern WW2 ground engagement and prepare to be pummeled about the unnecessary details of the cockpits in CloD, and how good "our" Spad pit is.

I think you are right Skoshi, they should have waited till at least they could show some alpha footage of game play, or shots of the models that they have done, not the pics of the BoM Lagg that were imported into the RoF engine as a test.

Dear god, is your life really that empty. :grin:

You can still keep playing Clod cant yer,, it's still there, nobody's taken it away from you have they?

I go to forums such as this to find out information about the sims I enjoy, not to listen to people whine or try to convince me that Black is White and White is Black and tell me that I can't have an opinion or express my concern because it's wrong. Why do you?

Without information relevant to the sim being released all there is opinion and hearsay and (as shown here before the 'news' and in the first few days at the new site) people trying to enbiggen themselves and put others down. It's counter productive to the community and bad for our hobby.

IMHO! (and that is just an opinion mind you ) They would have side tracked all the BS that went down on the new site by posting a Announcement and Developers Blog (with comments locked) Until we actually have something we can discuss.

Simple as that.

Dont disagree with you on that after all you dont see a soap company putting an ad on the telly without showing the product. :grin:

Still think there would have been a lot of moaning and bitching though. Cant for the life of me understand why most of the time.
It happens on every forum in the universe though and is not exclusive to flight simmers.
No matter who makes this sim, someone will be moaning that the colour of the grass is wrong, the situation of the public conveniences outside Buckingham Palace is 1/2 an inch out, or that you cant actually die when you crash your plane.

Now wheres the bliddy Royal Mail with my Adolf Galland add on.

+1

That said it has seamed to have settle down a bit today.

Which is good