then you are TOO still hoping that the sequel will be better :)

the thing i find wonderfull is the fact that Luthier considering that support/fix a game during one years because it was not finished at all is something incredible.... and stop working on it event it is not finish to be fix is normal....

i still hope that the sequel will be good and that a lot of fix and adding feature be present.... but how can i trust a man who said that kind of thing?

when i read him...finally i must admit that i will have to pay two time for a game with no garantee that it will be the product that i paid for.... sorry no! i can't.

but to be honest... i think that if the sequel is good and if it is a real BIG step forward i could forgive everything.

but if this sequel is another deception....il2 ils dead for ever... and i won't be the only one to forget this game if this happend.

i just hope that when the sequel will be release....the nighmare will be over.

I speak as a member of an important squad network, = GRij =, and COD today is no competitor for IL2 Sturmovik

1 - No support independent from the world of mods

2 - No support for SEOW, this is an external problem for 1c, but it is what gives life to IL2 Sturmovik

3 - IL2 Sturmovik is a finished product with a very demanding fans, who do not accept a game unfinished and sequels before fix bugs

For my part I will not buy the sequel until proven 1c not worth spending more money on this game


_____________________________________________

hablo como miembro de un escuadron importante en la red, =gRiJ= , y el COD a día de hoy no es competidor para el il2 sturmovik

1º- No tiene soporte independiente desde el mundo de los mods

2º- No tiene soporte para SEOW, esto es un problema externo para 1c, pero es lo que le da vida al il2 sturmovik

3º- Il2 sturmovik es un producto acabado y con unos seguidores muy exigente, que no aceptan un juego inacabado y secuelas antes de arreglar los fallos

por mi parte no voy a comprar la secuela hasta que 1c no demuestre que merece la pena gastar mas dinero en este juego

Esmiol
 

Actually, the only fair thing to do is to give CoD customers a free Sequel game, asuming they will accept it.

I do not consider Luthier fixing his bad product to be "wonderful". More like "expected".

Wont happen reb. They need the sales money to fund development. This is why they working on sequel instead of 100% on clod fixes. Pretty obvious really.

macro -

Yep.

I have noticed that companies that carry their poor financial standing to the marketplace for a cure usually fail.

These "people" who keep on saying I want the sequel free where an earth do you guys live to? Somewhere where capitalism has yet to appear, my guess is under a rock that is in one of the mosques in Timbuktu!

jeez gosh, now lemme think, mmmmm what could it possibly be ? is life really that hard to understand wherever you'r at ?

first, the gfx engine is actually working now, which was the main cause of problems at release time
second, creating new objects and scenery for the new maps is a minor element that can be delegated to a few specific staff (other then the detailed new plane models which take more time and which uses a few other specially skilled people)
third, whatever else is currently a problem, AI, FM and DM's etc, they will have had a good year to focus on it without other distractions, which means it will be significantly better, which means in turn we will have crossed the threshold of the overall package being playable. fine tuning of individual plane performances can still continue later on (which is one of the things current CoD fighter aircraft badly need)

does that mean BoM will be perfect or the end all and be all of the new sim series, nope of course not, but it will work reasonably well out of the box and wont have the major problems CoD had. see, wasnt all that hard really :)

to now already waste time whining about future imperfections of other SoW projects just shows the stunted destructive and self defeating mindset some are locked into. now go and donate 10$ to your local favored charity, and forever open that box no more ;)

Krupi -

Did you pay $50 for CoD then wait 2 yrs for it to be patched, only to now be told the final patch is coming whether the problems are fixed or not?

Grab a dictionary and look up "capitalism". You will find it involves the purchase of products that work. Products that don't work are either fixed by the manufacturer or become the subject of a law suit.

A "free sequel" is merely the substitute of a product that works for one that does not.

You got a problem with that?

Ignore Krupi, he blows in the wind, you should of heard him slagging off Luthier on our Team speak, but on here he's a 1C boy. :grin::grin:

zapatista -

"sequel will work reasonably well out of the box and wont have the major problems CoD had."

Can I quote you on that? :)

Oh my CoD !

http://dominateyourserver.com/wp-con...6e6056e7_o.jpg

Haha, quite right! If you would throw those desperate, literal fanatics, a bucket of good ol' english cow trash into the CE, they would say "Aha. Mhm. Not what I expected, but hey... genuine odor of the english countryside. Very immersive! (I have to "lol" about myself about that word :D )".

And those guys are obviously still waiting for the promised "answers" and are mad on the rest of the world because they "clog the thread up". How much more ridiculous can it get? Everyone will know what those "answers" will be and I say: SCREW THEM!

And J.Reb is right, of course,. In Germany, we have a paragraph in civil law that is titled like "Product shortcomings: Pay-Back, Exchanging Product, Fixing Product"!

Zap, you think the engine is working? not on my planet its not...

No AA
No X64bit
No DX11
The clouds, particles, smoke and hit affects are still not working as intended.
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer.
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable.
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits.
Mirrors still dont work.

That to me is not a working GFX engine.

As for my view on BOM, im judging it on the 8 years of development plus 18 months post release of COD.

I remember when a few of us said it was not looking good for COD before release, and you kept telling us we were wrong and COD would be great, well here we go again...

Zap, here's my prediction(make a note) BOM will be more of the same, just with different aircraft and maps. The same bugs and problems and then the same promises and excuses from the devs about how they need a bit more time to get things right.

If they could get it right, they would of by now, is 18 months not enough?

Vague, cryptic and veiled answers don't just make themselves. They take time. Steady chaps, they'll be along in a bit.

Agree with Furbs 100%. Zap was convinced that CLOD would be wonderful on release, but he as only just aquired it after someone gave him a copy, he went to ground after release when he found out how bad the game was, but good to have him back even if no lessons have been learnt.

Well firstly...

1) Cod works for me, i have logged over 500 hours on it.

2) I brought the collector edition so probably spent more on it than you.

At the end of the day NO ONE is making a sim like MG so you either support there product or you wait for some else... good luck with that.

This is great news..

Well..

Really can not call it news, in that we knew all along that this is how 1C affords to provide us updates..

This is how 1C did it with IL-2 for nearly 10 years and it worked very well!

Granted there are some people here that were not around during the IL-2 days, or have forgotten how 1C did it with IL-2..

Where these peoples thought they would be playing CoD v1.0 as is 10 years from now..

But that is not how it works..

That is to say would be hard pressed to find anyone still playing the 2001 version of IL-2 Sturmovik what with the 2007 version of IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 available..

All in all I am glad to hear that 1C has not changed the way they do things! S!

Keep up the good work!

Rose colored glasses for many people here. Blind sheep it seems.

It appears 1C does not have the talent to make a solid game. End of story. CLoD is proof of that. They might "want" to, but after a year, it is apprarent they dont know how.

Beyond the lack of talent, the communication is laughable. I love the way they open a Q&A, but forget the A part. Then go silent for weeks.

No matter how much blind faith some of you have in CLoD, the fact is, the majority of sim sites have a negative perception towards it. It is justified too.

In the end, the failure of CLoD is the devs fault....nobody elses. The financial situation, their fault....nobody elses. The negative image, their fault...nobody elses. The lack of communication, their fault...nobody elses.

If they fixed the mess within a years time, there might not be as many disgruntled people, but they didnt, so again, devs fault, not the negative posters on this board.

/\
You forget that this sim works perfectly for sooooooo many here, and they have logged hundreds of trouble free hours!
:rolleyes:

Really? So all your radio comms work? Trees dont pop in on full settings? Please, tell me how you fixed that.

See, if your statement was true for the majority of people, why are they still patching? Sure as hell isnt to refine a near perfect game.

Lokitexas, you seem to have your sarcasm mod switched off. :)

let me show you the light !

No AA ? not important in the grand scheme of things (right now), can be dealt with later
No X64bit ? most russian customers pc's still run on 32 bit hardware/software
No DX11 ? most russian customers pc's still run on dx9 (see earlier stats quoted by B6). some of us here seem to forget the il2 and SoW series are primarily aimed at the russian/east-block market, having it released to the west is a very secondary aspect. we will get 64bit and dx11, it just wont be very soon for these obvious reasons, and stomping our little feet on the ground about it wont change anything in that regard.
The clouds ? yeps we all want/like nicer and newer clouds, not a show stopper (as long as terrain and cloud masking works for AI's)
particles, smoke ? eh buy a bigger and better pc if you want those, its high end eye candy for the rich
hit affects are still not working as intended ? easy fix
Tree's and shadows still flicker and shimmer ? tree collision models is probably a resource issue, right now we have more visible trees in a very large landscape then any other flight sim and we just aint got the pc's to crunch that number. i suspect that might not be solved even by BoM release (hope it will), just remeber you are buying a flight sim, not a tree sim :) the shimmer and flikker is a gfx bug, relatively simple to fix and will be done (since other speed tree sims dont have this problem)
View range for aircraft is still way too low, with mid and far LOD's that are horrible ? yups i find that a MAJOR issue, but it is relatively easy to fix. CoD uses up to 10 LoD models versus the 3 in il2-1946, now the gfx engine is fixed altering the visibility of the more distant LoD models is fairly simple (not that i trust luthier to understand its importance, and be willing to direct this as a priority fix that will have a big positive impact on gameplay.
Ground object view distance is terrible and make bombing missions almost unplayable ? is linked to LoD models and a temporary byproduct of the new and improved gfx engine, again relatively easy to fix
Craters and far objects still show through landscape and cockpits ? annoying yes, but technically a minor issue to resolve, easy fix
Mirrors still dont work ? real men dont need mirrors ! you should be chasing the enemy, not let him chase you ! j/k, easy fix obviously (other then it being a resource hog, so must of us wont be able to switch it on even if it works)

That to me is not a working GFX engine: that to me is no reason to be a drama queen 6 - 9 months before release and imply the sky is falling in :) we now have a basically working gfx engine and most main area's are already working and near completion. its largely a bug fixing stage now rather then new content creation (other then a few people working on new aircraft and objects etc). that is a very different stage of completion than having a non working gfx engine and main missing elements at the point CoD was released. and the good news is that they have a number of other very advanced elements that can be quickly included later on once the main sim is working (pilots with animation, control of vehicles, advanced weather systems etc..). in late 2012 the whole paradigm is rather different them may 2011, most here should be able to see this.

if you are ignoring large parts of reality no wonder you cant arrive at the right conclusions. the ONLY issue with the CoD problems is the forced premature release of an unfinished sim, nothing else. you can either choose between NOTHING or the buggy beta we had in the last 12 months. for me personally i think that giving them some beer money to allow them to keep plodding on for another 12 to 18 months is a pretty good deal to still have the hope of eventually getting a decent and reasonably rounded product at the end. you see anybody else doing this kinda work for an in depth ww2 sim, me thinks not (and dont bother listing a few that are vaguely in that direction but each have much larger holes to fill before they even come close)

then my only question to you is, what have you personally done over this CoD time period to increase or decrease the odds of BoM being a good/better product or resolve and help fix CoD's faults and short coming ? lets be clear now, you are part of the problem furbs, you'r not part of the solution :(

Well Zap you certainly win a prize for the biggest load of bollox typed on the forum this year, funny though I'll give you that :grin::grin::grin:

Zap, looking at your post, are you sure you and Luthier are not related? :)

Anyway, your post almost made me spit my coffee.

Wow, I guess so. You cant blame me with some of the fanatics here. ;)

anyone planning group legal action count me in

lol

Just ignore those who attack you personally for what you said..

It just proves that they can not address anything in your post (the message)

Which is why they have to resort to attacking you (the messanger)

So, as a customer, its our job to help fix the product we paid for? And if we dont, we are part of the problem?

Holy hell, this is funny.

I know its an old saying....but what are you smokin?

I fully expect to purchase the Battle Of Moscow thingy just to see what its like when it is on offer in a Steam sale for about £1.37p.

you have the right to buy as much coca cola as you want and then get diabetes
you have the right to eat as many hamburgers as you want and then clog your arteries and die prematurely of a heart attack
you also have the right to vote in a corrupt president who then lets his crony friends plunder your national coffers and kill off the american empire in one big swoop

and you also have the right not to do any background reading and go buy any software game you want and end up with a dud :) but why come and complain about it ? a little homework before putting down your cash would have shown you the risk, to late to complain now padre, all you got left now is the crying over spilled milk :)

if however you are in the hope of at some time getting your sweaty little hands on a good complex and advanced ww2 flight simulator, where you gonna go ? not many places eh. now take the beta you have now, add 18 months to 2 years, and voila you have a much better product, one that will be playable and will continue to be worked on for the next years to come (as further expansions or the MMO develop)

so just be grateful you helped in some VERY small way to support further development of a great flightsim, say thank you and be on your way !

OMFG....have you never bought a bad game before? Did the $50 you might have paid for CloD put you into poverty? Get over it already.

im laughing at you bro for buying this turd of a game!!!! O0000000000000000000077777777777777777777777777777 77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777 77777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777 7777

your gunner in rof

Yup, bought on the IL2 name, and regretted ever since. Hoping it would be up to par. Still has not happened.

You sure do talk about "RIGHTS" to do this and that, then say to "move along now"? So the right to drink all the coke I want is ok, but the right to voice an opinion isnt?

People like you make me sick. Hypocrite.

Am I the only one to notice that there are alot of 'new' forum member handles being generated to post in this thread?

Take this 'user' for example.. His 1st post and this is the best he can do?

Eitherway, does this mean we can expect another furbs/icars poll to be posted soon?

Mate look at my reg date im a member of this forum about 4 months longer than you"!!!!! o7

and the only good thing about you tree is that you are so obsessively busy posting negative crap about things you know little about, is that the chances of you ever reproducing are near to nil :)

And his 2nd post is no better..

As the game engine improves, I think you will see few people changing forum names. ;)

so do i detect a real flight simulation fan there under the hood ? in that case all i can say is welcome, you have arrived at the last great hope for ww2 aviation fans. the only problem is that it is still under construction, so there is some patient waiting to be done. some of us try and pass the time providing bug reports and suggestions for improvements

but while you are reading the forum, just mind the thread turds left by trolls, and be aware of the mesmerizing swansong from the depressive sirens with the deranged minds who lure you to the cliffs of doom where all is black and ugly

instead, be on the lookout for glimmers of hope and signs of progress, there are some great things in the making

for me and my mid range pc, CoD only just became playable since the last beta patch, but i didnt buy the sim full price at release time because it was quickly evident there were some major problems. seeing the leap forward CoD is from the il2 series, and how much depth and complexity the sim was constructed with, it was an (over) ambitious project from the start (given current hardware). it has some incredible potential however, and you can either try and help it get there, or get stuck in some lamentation look where you forever morn your lost few dollars, your choice :)

Meaning what exactly?

True.

BOM will work out of the box, if it can survive to that point, because of this painful development period.

This sim has been struggling for life since its birth, is being slowly nurtured along although resources are few and far between. There is an angry mob of detractors who take a perverse glee in jeering its faltering progress.

If it can be allowed to live and grow, and if the developers are talented enough and work hard enough, it has a chance to be a really remarkable game.

Barking up the wrong tree.

I have submitted bug reports, held on hope, talked this game up on other forums, and finally came to the conclusion it just isnt happening. As I said before, the devs might want to make this game good, but obviously cannot.

As a true flight sim fan, I am content now with the DCS series. Clostest thing to consumer flight combat sim on the market. Besides the best sim version of the P-51 to date, it has little to offer in the WWII genre (for now), but that is ok. I would rather enjoy the modern airframes, and wait for more WWII planes from this company, than painfully try to play CLoD, and ignore all the missing features, and bugs. Done it long enough.

Who knows, maybe 777, or another company will have something on the market in the 2 years it will take for 1C to "maybe" have this mess cleaned up, if they are still in business.

Anyway forget all that, this is Luthiers thread, and he will back anytime last night to answer questions. Luthier.....

I am a farther of 4 Zap, and you will be pleased to know they are all healthy. I've been talking crap 2 years before the release of this game, my credibility is far far greater than yours, and unlike you I paid for the game.

yeah, that, translated to CoD, is what we all did. But unfortunately, in our case, there was no background reading to do beforehand... not many people could know that this would be a big rip-off.

And you call yourself Zapatista? That's the biggest insult to Zapata I've seen today :rolleyes:

Could someone kindly point me to the area where, excluding engine sounds and tracers, CoD got better in any way over those 18 months? At release, my CoD ran reasonably fast, and it looked even better, if I remember correctly. So... what exactly did those 18 months to us? Anyone?

Yeah, grateful, exactly. You are an agent provocateur, right? I mean, no one can be that naive on his own, free will. Your first name is Ilya, isn't it?
I played along for quite some time, too. Reported bugs as detailedly as possible, defended the simulation from cheap shots while at the same time hoping that all will be well in 6 months' time, as everybody said.
That time has long since passed.

Enough of the back and forth arguing. If you want to fight with each other do it via PM, not in public.

ahh tree again with his lies and personal insults, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

i really hope for your sake you are putting on an act, because if this is really the best of your deductive reasoning effort after 1.5 million years of evolution, we might as well let climate change run rampant and have it flush your genetic line away

correction 1: as previously documented i was given a copy of the sim shortly after release (when i already had made the decision to delay purchasing it because of the large amount of problems reported)
correction 2: i been right here tree, since 2007, its you that's been gone for extended periods because you keep getting banned, found those interruptions confusing ?
correction 3: i still bought the sim once patches were released that indicated improvements to make some small token act of support to something i believe in, and yea baby, since the last beta patch its actually playable on my mid range pc and starting to look good

now just make sure you ignore facts tree, spread your little lies, keep thread crapping and keep misleading people in flightsim forums, and ........ make sure you blindly and doggedly ignore anything good or positive about SoW :)

ooops sorry Uther

didnt see your last post while i was typing :)

lol, :grin::grin::grin:

Zapa, I try to maintain a neutral stance in your long-running dispute with Tree and Furbs but, really, your description of the issues below is incredibly rose-tinted. Given your characterisation of so many of the issue as 'easy fixes' I have to ask why they haven't been fixed 18 months after release?

Quite important to me actually, though I agree not a deal breaker.

I'm not sure it's true that the sim is aimed primarily at the Russian market, in fact I doubt it is. (Certainly a BOB sim would be expected to sell more in the west.) Some people have stated this a lot recently but I don't think the developers would want to alienate or write off any market that may purchase their product. Given that, DX11 and 64-bit while again not being dealbreakers, are certainly desirable options.

Are you really saying that smoke in a flight sim is an optional extra for the rich? :confused:

Hope so. Expect it will be sorted in final COD patch.

Just a personal reaction here, but I'm really tired of people passing off missing features of the sim with lines like that. I know it's not a tree sim, it's also not a cloud sim, or a weather sim...but they'd be nice to have!

Hope so. My reaction above stands though. If so easy why not done?

:) Obviously another easy one that they could have fixed anytime at all in the last year and a half, but chose not to.

Sorry Zap. Please don't take it personally. I just can't go along with most of your take on things.

I believe that there is pretty broad consensus that the current patch of the sim runs better, with higher framerates, less CTD and other bugs on a far greater majority of machines than at release.

Cheers kendo, and the point was not if these features or affects are easy to fix(not if you ask Luthier)...the point was if they are working now.

If they are so easy to fix Furbs why havent you modded them in yet?

er.... Krupi, Furby isn't saying that, go back and read the thread. :grin:

Well he said they were easy to fix, I suggest you read them again. :grin:

Not sure what your on about precious?

to buy or not to buy....
 

GEE Luthier one has to admire your confidence , buying a sequel after a first such a poorly develloped product , i have to give it to you my friend you are a true believer or a fool...

i bought COD following IL2 Sturmovik serie ( i have got all of them) like most of the other cod owners i guess... the difference was each of the sequels were an improvement over the previouse one , BUT a sequel over COD and expecting people to buy it! i don't know...

it is not that cod is bad it just feels as an infinished product or worth a try one for future developements ...

we waited years for it then we waited even more patches after patches but for what , i still got the most booring campaign ever designed in a sim , i still flight with stupids AI who crashes more often than not , i still can fly through trees and take off and land on empty tarmacs it feels so empty.

The planes are terrific and i love the graphics but i cannot really use my radio ,sometimes i can fly for hours in empty space and if i fly over villages and towns there are empty even of gosts .
I won't even start with the technicals some other seniors are doing a much better job at that .

And then something which has been nagging me for sometime : a russian sequel i believe why ? why not the Malta campaign or the African one , anyway i will wait for the next patch not expecting much ....

For the sequel i will wait , i will read the forum and wait for reviews it will be up to you to prove to us that you have been listening...

just remember that all those years of swiss neutrality only ever ended up producing a Cuckoo clock clock as its greatest feat :)

you already know the answer to this :) untill the main faulty core of CoD was fixed (gfx engine), none of the other issues mattered much, and there are several reasons for this:
firstly, because many of them are secondary elements to the gfx engine itself (lod model visibility, tree shimmering, clouds etc), so its a waste of time fixing things in the old game engine while the new one is being developed.
secondly: because there was no financial reward in spending most manpower on fixing the old problems while all hands on deck were required to stop the axe falling on the whole project, for that survival a soonish BoM was essential (and still is)

i was mostly responding to the big issue of dust clouds during takeoff/landings issue, and the high level eye candy for some smoke effects we saw during early development, most of these effects are very high demands on system resources to see them in all their glory, and only very few here have reported playable frame rates during some of these effect. of course we need decent (but relatively low detailed) smoke and dust effects, but unless you have a very high end pc and they make a major leap forward in code efficiency those better effects are probably a luxury we cant afford for most of us.


sure, i'd love to have them to, and you can add to that a decent dynamic campaign engine and some complex and detailed AI ground vehicle routines providing supply lines to forward troops and airfields etc (already discussed by oleg during development)

sadly the more realistic priorities right now are to get some improvements in AI behaviour, some decent frame rates for mid end pc's on medium settings, better flight models and performance for allied/axis fighters, control and gauges errors fixed, and have the LoD visibility problem solved. that is what my perspective is based on, if we get those elements solved, and sadly there is no indication luthier recognizes the priority these fixes should have to stem most complaints and provide us at least with a functional product.

and that is why i see behavior like furbs and "the foliage one" to be so self defeating and contributing to the current problem. instead we should make a concerted effort to have a list of priority fixes created for luthier (with specific detail on the exact problem, for ex quantify the distant LoD model visibility problem for various FoV's etc). instead some seem focused on this destructive merry-go-round of indulgent self pity and false indignation at a lost few $ you would never worry about in other circumstances. its not as if this was a planned faulty release that was conceived in some evil scheme, what is being done to fix it in the last 12 months is the best the small current programming crew can do to fix things while still trying to ensure the survival of the series, and if anybody here has any hope of getting a decent ww2 sim we better wake up to this.

and i really do believe the major crisis in game performance is over. since the last beta patch i can actually run the sim on my mid livel pc (dual core i5 @ 3.5, 5770 1gb gfx card and 8 gb ram etc), which was impossible at initial release time. that improvement only occurred with last months patch, so it seems appropriate for luthier and Co to now further polish its performance while starting to address the main bugs that hinder game play and normal use.

you are missing the best part of it, mp.
with its faults and all the small dogfigths online are great, join atag or any populated server and you will see

This thread is now closed. When there is more news it will either be re opened, or a new thread started.