How sad..

I was looking forward to a detailed conversation on the subject..

But it looks like all we are going to get is the typical response of those who have no proof

They are easy to spot

In that instead of providing the proof they quickly resort to attacking the person that ask for the proof

As in this case

Where Krupi trys to make me out to be on some kind of drug.. As if to imply only someone on drugs would not 'know' the FM is broken

But ask yourself

If it was so 'clear' to anyone not on drugs that the FM of such and such plane is broke

Than surly it would be a simple mater to point to the proof that it is broken

But as you can see, Krupi did no such thing

Which in and of itself proves there is no proof

Again, note nothing is provided to support these wild claims.. No screen capture let alone track file showing the 'speed' let alone a link to or post of the real world data that this claim is too slow is related to..

Long story short, talk is cheap when it comes to claims about FM's being broke

LOL I was only joking but now I have to SERIOUSLY ask what you are on...

There is no need for a discussion just look at the polls and threads there a loads of them all with the details you are after.

For example do you agree that the AI needs work, well in a recent poll the same number of ppl that wanted the AI fixed also stated that the FM needed work... I fail to see your logic, this is nothing new its well documented.

How sad..

I was looking forward to a detailed conversation on the subject..

But it looks like all we are going to get is the typical response of those who have no proof

They are easy to spot

In that instead of providing the proof they quickly resort to attacking the person that ask for the proof

As in this case

Where Krupi trys to make me out to be on some kind of drug.. As if to imply only someone on drugs would not 'know' the FM is broken

But ask yourself

If it was so 'clear' to anyone not on drugs that the FM of such and such plane is broke

Than surly it would be a simple mater to point to the proof that it is broken

But as you can see, Krupi did no such thing

Which in and of itself proves there is no proof

Again, note nothing is provided to support these wild claims.. No screen capture let alone track file showing the 'speed' let alone a link to or post of the real world data that this claim is too slow is related to..

Long story short, talk is cheap when it comes to claims about FM's being broke

Speculation threads are just for people that want to talk among themselves.

Luthier will release when it's ready.

@ Aces

Why are you writing like some sort of professor lecturing to a room full of students I will answer you when you give me a direct question not a debrief/analysis.

I have never considered putting another forum member on ignore, I have been tempted but have never carried it through you however I am considering to put on right now, like I said there are countless discussions on this it's not my fault if you don't know how to use the search button or look at the sub forums.

Patience is virtue not many have it.

Still no proof provided? I am not suprised really, Sorry if you feel like you were singled out.. but in a way you were in that your post was the 1st one I came across in this thread stating the FM is 'broken'

My initial response was two fold

one to ask you what info (proof, tests, real world data, etc) your statements were based on, in the hopes that it was based on 'something' that we could than discus (you know the purpose of the forum).

two if no info, than highlight the fact that your statements are based on no info in the hopes of putting to rest these unfounded myths.

In that these myths can be very destructive!

These myths have a way of taking on a life of their own such that over time they are received as fact instead of the unfounded myths that they are. It all starts with one guy making an observation and statement. They typically start off more as a question than a statement. For example, "is anyone else able to obtain such and such speed? From there others pick up on it, maybe even expand on it to the point that over time it is hard to tell where the statement even originated from let alone what it was based on. Like a snowball rolling down a hill more and more 'flakes' jump on the band wagon such that when someone 'new' shows up and sees 'all' these people saying such and such is broke they tend to 'go with the flow' (sheepeople). Never stopping to ask.. What is this statement of 'broken' based on?

Why don't they ask? Well for a lot of people (not all) it has to do with human nature. In that most simmers egos are so fragile that they can never look in the mirror and admit to themselves, let alone anyone else, that they were 'bested' when they were shot down by that 'other' plane. No.. It can not be due to that, it has to be something wrong with the FM! Where their plane is under modled (too slow) or the other guys is over modled (too fast) because their ego will never allow them to stop and consider the possibility that the other guy was just more skilled. With that said, I don't think the FMs should be dumbed down or tweaked to make thee fragile ego people happy, even if they are the majority of the users!

Sorry dude, but I only discuss the game with people that have it clearly you do not, again I will tell you to look at the FM sub forum for the threads on FM. Foad

flight model and performance, ...
 

... to stop this weird discussion, Ace-of-Aces, why dont you check out this here:http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html
and then compare it to the performance of aircrafts in Cliffs of Dover, maybe then you believe the people who say that the flight-model in this sim is not correct.

It is not correct, that`s a fact !

To everybody who is so enthusiastic about the new BETA-patch that they are already satisfied I want to say it`s still far from perfect compared to what was said years ago on what would be possible in this sim.
Maybe you havent read what was previously announced?
;)

Maybe I´m the only one to say it, so what, ... but I cannot say that I am so pleased and impressed with the new beta that I would play the sim as it is now for years, even without further development.
Dont make the developers think everything is already fine the way it is with your comments.

It is much better than before but still far from good or perfect!

I wait for further updates and patches!

... yes that`s correct but I couldnt find anything more precise in the internet
for the moment, dont have time to look for hours to find the best documentation on that subject. Maybe someone else can find something to put an end to that discussion if the FM in Cliffs of Dover is correct or not?

Let`s wait and play something else until this sim is closer to what was announced years ago.
By the way, a new ego-shooter is announced, "FarCry3"
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/06/06/farcry-3-preview/
:grin: