Your post clearly added a lot of value ...... I think you should be made mod, after reading some of the magnificent contributions you have made here in a 172 posts :rolleyes:

You guy's, thanks

EDITED: I'm not here to start fights. Apologies. Your comment hit me and I reacted. I think it was uncalled for and posted what I did. Fair enough?

Golly...step away for a couple of days and I'm lost. ;)

Accepted.

Online offline
 

Online and offline components are both key to make a flight sim work. A balance is needed.

It's like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you need both and once you put them together to remove one would demolish a good PB&J sandwich.

IL-2 series would have not gotten as far if it only catered to just one arena.


Online is here to stay. The popularity of it is that groups can work together and you introduce the social element to games. People give variety . . .
Also human vs human challenge to some is a refreshing experience as AI (currently) is predictable, does super things etc . . .


Also online content of a game has become an industry accepted criteria for judging game quality (like sound and graphics) . . . and a standard, player expected / basic feature of any game released currently.



Online can rub people wrong. And ego has alot to do with it. You have petty / abuse admins of servers, to the morbid fear of losing or self esteem tied to their score so they have to cheat . . .

Also remember that the loudest are those who choose to cry, complain, whine and dine while some others would rather spend their time fixing the problem, go to another server that doesn't have that issue, or are busy figuring a way they can deal / work through it, or are simply having too much fun to let it get in the way.

I see the historical thing . . . complaining about the historical context on the basis it wasn't fair, or historical isn't fun.

The problem is some people can't connect that war isn't fair, rules were made to be broken, and murphy the grunt's word hold more clout than the staff generals . . .

Even though IL-2 is a game and that a certain definition of fun IS how close and accurate to that specific time and place in WW 2 you can get.

Remember that IL-2 is a game and many see it in that regard, a game that is supposed to be fun (and online) and fair, that takes place in a specific genra.




Offline component is very important. It gets the player into the game. For sims immersion is key, and historical accuracy is paramount. The plane and missions make you feel you are a pilot in the VVS or the surprise and wonder of the routing patrol finding a luftwaffe plane they cannot catch even though they had some height advantage at full throttle.

Offline components, missions / levels / world etc are also criteria upon which the game is judged, and makes up most of the game.

Also important is tools to for the user to make their own maps, missions, campaigns and control every detail possible. Quality games released with the intention of longevity always include tools for user made stuff.






To have that you need solid code, a clearly defined set of rules, good judgement, player, developer, and modder relationship that serves for the betterment of the game and enjoyment of players (and strikes a balance). There needs to be open dialog between the community and dev, and a well balanced (in terms of features, fun, historical accuracy, content types etc), well designed, quality game.

So far BOB SOW is turn out good.

Cool

Protos

I stand by my words. I happen to favor a decidedly historical POV on flightsimming, including "reenacting" (not really the right term, but I can't find a better one) historical operations. However you can't expect that players follow historical procedures or fall in line with historical setups - not when you've made the experiences I've made.

Let's imagine a setup of 1942 Eastern Front. The Luftwaffe has the supreme fighter in this setup (in this case the Bf 109 F-4), but the VVS is numerically far superior (which you can't enforce, either). The VVS must support a ground offensive by busting up german artillery positions, tank formations and strongpoints - and the historical aircraft for that work is the Il-2. However it's still the single-seat version so the red fighters need to give them escort.

My experience is simply that such setups are impossible because they always end up being discussed to death and ground to dust in boards with always the same bollocks of "arguments" - fairness, "fun" ... You can make a level field for playing, even with unequal technical and/or numerical setups as in this one. Give the VVS a load of targets they need to destroy so their efforts must be spread out and make things difficult for the Luftwaffe by having so many spots to cover that their own ops (i.e. bomber attacks vs a soviet depot deep behind lines) have trouble getting fighter cover. Set up a lot of light AAA so that the armored Il-2s are the better choice for low-level attacks.
Varying layout and goals is what makes a field level, not having the same or very similar aircraft handy so that the dogfighters can bang it out at 500m between the two closest fields, but players don't want that. I've learned this. They want instant gratification, sportive contest and not a challenge. And I want "wargaming" as opposed to 1-on-1 dogfight contests so I stay offline. The Ai doesn't yammer when it has to fly single-seat Il-2s, Stukas or bombers ... even in the right numbers. ;)

I'd love to fly those setups online as well, but as you say Thor, it's a bit difficult (to put it optimistic). However, I can't deny I enjoy online games nontheless but I'd love to make realistic missions and setups in online games... greetings!

For il2 there is a mod (zuti's MDS) that brings cdThors dreams closer to fulfillment, online!
There one can have flights uf unpopular Aircraft flown by ai, and the player can join them or go glory seeking with a fighter.
So one can use the ai controlled planes to recreate the numerical balance of the past.
And all that on a dogfight server where people come and go as they please.