but it's not the 1990s, for games to be taken serious these days they need to have robust lifelike graphics. Which I have no doubt this game will and does already have. But when I hear people say, "it doesn't need such and such because it's just a flight sim" it makes me happy they aren't the ones designing the game, seems like they would be happy with this:

https://www.adbusters.org/files/flag...et_horizon.jpg
"But the FM is awesome!!"


wake up people, it's 2010, play any other top-selling game of another genre and realize what SOW has to compete with

As always there is not only black and white but also many shades of grey!

First priority are the aircraft with their fm and dm!

second comes, imo, the targets for those aircraft.

third is the terrain and the sea

forth is buildings, trees, scrubs....

fifth is, also imho, the ai. (incl. ai traffic and map population.)

sixth is the variancy of trees, buildings and so on

everything after 5th is "nice to have, maybe later, third party" stuff

But the FM was awesome. I remember that it was (almost!) the Domark MiG 29, the graphics were pretty atrocious, the trees looked like inverted umbrellas with panels missing, but if you played it from a RAM disk, it was actually fun to fly, and it did sideslips which you wouldn't get in Falcon or Combat Pilot.

Thanks Oleg.

I just can't wait to see an actual landscape. So far what we have is individually modeled objects, it will depend on how those objects are arranged to create a convincing landscape.

I wasn't being serious about having these features included.

there's only one WW2 flight sim out there that has any competition with SoW, and that's IL2... all others at the moment have the same or worse graphics than IL2, and/or crappier flight models, and/or no real multiplayer, and/or are too buggy to even play...

just seeing the WiP screenshots should be enough evidence to say there's never been anything even close to what SoW will be.

the fact is that the majority of people like super easy button bashing games that are super fast paced and don't require any practice or technical skill, so this game falls under a niche category, therefore it HAS to be the best, so that there's no real competition, just to make it worth making...

also SoW game will uses specifically directX, unlike IL2 wich only uses openGL (directX mode is still openGL, just with a wrapper) so it won't suffer from the problems ATI cards have with memory leaks with openGL

Those two pics look very different to me:

Oleg's sky is a desaturated winter sky.

Oleg's tree color is much darker.

Oleg's grass is much brighter, so are houses.

All in all, despite the high detail quality, screenshot is much unbalanced in terms of saturation/brightness compared to RL pic. Since it's WIP, no distress, but i think it must still be mentioned. IL2's terrain had great qualities for its time, but suffered of the same saturation/brightness unbalance ("tractor green" grass, purple high altitude sky anyone ?), this should be worked NOW, not years after release by modders.

Great spot Andy, you Tree Geek! :grin::grin: Well before my time, (child of 1976 lol) I don't think I have ever seen an Elm in my life. Was it mass Elm Tree Genocide? Those bloody Yanks, its all their fault :grin:.

There again, I might have walked past one yesterday....its not like I pay much attention, lol. *Note to self, must pay heed to all the wondrous Flora and Fauna of this Green and Pleasant Land *TM* :grin:

10/10 Inspector Clouseu!! Bring back the Elm!! 1c games could be the Resurrection, and the Life..... :grin:

Actually, I'm not much of a tree geek, Orville, but the list of British species reminded me of the loss. If you want to know more, Wikipedia, as always, is a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm

Personally, I'm not to bothered about getting the precise tree species right, I think it is more important in a CG landscape to get variation in fauna than worry about minor details.

I suspect Oleg may be tearing his hair out at the details we are nit-picking over, and possibly considering setting the next SoW in antartica - penguins have no internet access. ;)

Ohhh! How much misunderstanding for and about a "tree"? :o Hehe... Nice effects anyway, i would aprecciate it.

Rise of flight has better graphics than Il-2. ;) That's the benchmark, IMO, that SoW needs to aim for.

Just in case:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sonBentley.jpg

:-)

ROTFL! I had a good laugh mate, thank you !

I wouldn't worry about the trees looking awesome.

SpeedTree is an amazing tool, and provides procedural generation for different treetypes. I doubt any one tree is going to look like the other.

It also has support for hedges, bushes and plants.
I have a great deal of faith :)

Yeah Cobra, I have just realised that Empire:Total War uses SpeedTree and they do the grass too? Hope Oleg and Co use the wind swept grass, or some adaptation. It looks fantastic in game, and I have little worries too. :)

@Major....LMAO :grin:

Right, however anyway we will tune a bit colors for more precise.

Crumbs...
 

Thankyou for the frequent updates.

I'm sure that the finished product will hold many surprises not seen in these glimpses of the work in progress.

Thanks again.

To all, speaking about trees
 

1. Currently we are not making ground sim. So we will have minimal amount of trees types in the release. This minimal amount will be based on Speed Tree samples, reworked for our needs. And trust me it is isn't a small work. We simply decided to use speed tree just because of possible future developments in other directions with the controlable ground units. Thats all. In terms of speed and required power our own trees technology was oriented only for flight sims.

2. We will use some stones and some bushes. But with the sight how to do not owerload the grphics in terms of rendering speed. As more types - more overloading due to render on a great surface (same for trees types as well)

3. Before these screen shots posted, nobody even noticed about any of the last fligth sims speaking about types of trees there :) Even if it is there totally incorrect. :)

Nice humor :)

I would say better some of graphics features, but not better the photographics look in most cases.
There is always a term of the right use for some of modern technologies. Should not be overdone, or shouldn't be in use totally, because it is wrong in terms of perception comparing to real things.

+1
IL2 is still the benchmark in flight sim graphic's

Hi Oleg. Ok, that is fair enough and understood, we are only trying to help :) So long as the most common trees mentioned in my previous post are present I will be happy. The English are a little defensive of our beloved Land, and we don't want to be flying past American/Foreign Trees! (Jk) :grin:

I'm sure you will do a great job though. One question, will the Speedtree grass tech be used, or some form of it? If you take a look at something like 'Napoleon:Total War' it looks marvellous. Maybe you are doing your own thing and can do even better, if so....Great! Of course the Frame rate balance must be made, understood.

Regarding Rise of Flight, yes certain things like bloom and HDR are very much overdone.....The community is trying to get them to rethink. Very talented bunch of people though, and it is much better than initial release at present. Still problems, especially online and there are damage model/Collision quirks too. I think they are on a very steep "learning curve" but they will get there.

Enjoying playing it while waiting for SOW though, the new QMB is good....It is great fun flying the Camel and I love the FM :)

Grass is our own and is animated. It is done in terms of good look from the landed ariraft (or at take off).

Thanks for info Oleg, look forward to seeing it! :)

EDIT: Just found out about the attack in Moscow from this forum, very sorry to hear this and I did not mean to be flippant or disrespectful in any way, I did not know. Computer games do not mean anything in comparison, hope you they find those responsible and that you are all well.

Deepest Sympathy.

Trees look great
 

Good to see your replies Oleg. The trees look great and it is WIP. Keep the previews coming - we are looking forward to the final release and I am sure the community will continue to help you make BOB/SOW the best flight sim on the market.
Very sad to hear of the Terrorist attack in the Moscow Metro. I hope none of your staff were involved?
DFLion

All members of our team are Ok. Thank you.

Glad to read it, take care.

Oleg is a photographer, a good one too, I'm pretty sure he can see it. Oh, not to mention the fact that these shots were very clearly labeled WORK IN PROGRESS....

It all a balancing act, getting all the graphics, fm, dm, ai, and moving weather pattern detail working with useable frame rates.

Oleg how are your frame rates issues at the moment? I would imagine you have alot of fine tuning to do to see what details can be kept and what details have to be delayed for future releases.

Hi Oleg,

Good job! Apart from goodies like pleasant trees and grass (the more the better of course :)), please pay great attention to the invisible yet fundamental parts, like DM and weapon modeling.

The Il2 history shows us that unfortunately the original flaws and mistakes of machine guns modeling or certain planes' damage model made their way until nowadays, probably with copy-paste from patch to patch.

You can always add later a tree or a spring flower ...

Respectfully,
Insuber

Maybe my impression is "off" here...but some of these comments seem a little petty. Is the reality that a lot of people have just run out of things to comment about, or do people really think that Oleg is incapable of improving on the fantastic sim that he has created?

Every new update Oleg makes now lead to the most surreal of tangents...

First people mock the animated grass...now people claim the game is ruined if the trees are wrong (lol)...

People are tired of waiting for the sim, but at the same time they voice a concern in regards to unimpressive scenery...

The more I think about it the more I think that people have just run out of things to say (lol).

OK, now "my" pointless comments are over... ;)

We all want this game to be as realistic as possible. If we give advice, help, or even criticism, then it is in order to reach that goal.
It is not my aim or anyone else's, I believe, to offend.

Eh, wasn't really "offended"...more (maybe) disappointed. Cheers anyway...

Maybe my impression is "off" here...but some of these comments seem a little petty. Is the reality that a lot of people have just run out of things to comment about, or do people really think that Oleg is incapable of improving on the fantastic sim that he has created?

Every new update Oleg makes now lead to the most surreal of tangents...

First people mock the animated grass...now people claim the game is ruined if the trees are wrong (lol)

Bit of an exaggeration Proton, no? :) If it is a crime wanting England to look as much like England as possible, then I am guilty as charged (lol). Of course, others may think that in what is "not a ground sim", details like opening tank doors and possibly fully animated truck gear sticks are infinitely more important than Err....England looking like England. :grin:

I will draw the line at wanting to see the disembodied Spirit of Wordsworth's 'Lucy' roaming O'er hill and dale in her frilly Nighty at dusk........But will be demanding it in the first patch :grin:

Its a crazy world we live in mate, and it would be a boring world if we were all the same *ClichesRUs* :)

WoP has the best terrain I've seen in a flight simulator

Graphics sells games

just sayin

I look forward to my friday updates eagerly. But comment very rarely because the schwarm normally covers everythign I want to say.

I think you missed something this time.

While "in" the tree, the leaves are well differentiated
While next to it, the leaves are individual.
While close to it, the leaves blur together and the we gradually lose definition.
As the trees get further away we lose teh differences in shapes and the variation in internal colour.
The trees near the horizon are greenish blurs.

The same can be said for the houses - you can see a village in the distance in one of the shots and the details is much less pronounced than the close houses.

A lovely example of the graphics engine working. It also leads to realistic assessment of hieght by "looking out of the window"

Currently in IL2 - the ranges at which details appear are highly distinct. Flying towards a bunch of ground targets having then "appear" at relevant ranges and then later pring into more detail, breaks immersion - this finer gradation of detail loss is going to overcome that without putting an unneccessarily large load on our graphics cards

Given that they have paid this much attention to the ancillary ground details, I am eagerly looking forward to how this will work with planes and "important" targets (ie stuff we try and kill)

Very impressed team
- Glad you weren't badly affected by the Metro event

What an embarrassing thread
 

When game devs do not provide this kind of progress report. Don't ask why, just read this pathetic thread.
What a shame.

In regarding of animated grass I think it will be great to see the propwash effect in it during take-off .
Already expecting the news Oleg said we will see in the next update.

Why is it a shame? Yes it's a shame when someone is insulting or starts a flame or something like that. It is not a shame when someone like Oleg, who is clearly from his work also a perfectionist, puts his work out to the public and reads the comments on what looks great and what can be done better. The flight simulator crowd are a bit of a fickle bunch yes... but many are extremely well meaning and bring their various expertise and knowledge to the table. Examples: the London Tower Bridge and Italian Medals discussions or the Re.2000 request for help. The info isn't always out there but people are happy to provide that added layer...

When you are an artist... and being a game developer is as much a science as it is an art... a significant part of that process is the critique. It isn't always pretty... sometimes it's not always nice (although it should be measured) but that back and forth CAN be a positive event. I think most here are being very positive.

Criticism does not necessarily equal dislike.

Its striking in this photo how varied the shades of green are depending on shadows, angle to light, transparency etc.
Personally I would think it impossible to accurately model this, and talk of saturation etc. is pretty much meaningless - the best that can be hoped for is an approximation, which will never keep everyone happy, because they don't seem to recognize how much more complex reality is.
Also I have seen mention of speed grass blowing in the wind - as I understand from looking at their web site the amount of grass modeled in this way is limited to a small area around the view point, so it would seem unsuited to a flight sim.
Yep, but I would say adding fences/hedges would add much greater immersion than attempting to model every tree type in Britain

A someone who tends to land in fields rather than at the appropriate airport, wind blown grass would be one of those things that give us wind direction which would be nice.

It will be interesting to see what damage will occur to us as we pass through the stone walls and hedges during our forced landings (and to the hedges and walls!). Depending on speed and fuel/weapons load and other factors, I hope we don't have an imediate explosion like when you hit trees in IL2. I'ld prefer a variety of crumpled messes (with and without fire) ranging up to the explosion.

cheers!

I would like to see as much detail as is physically possible added everywhere in the new sim , blasting around at 25 plus is ok but when you find yourself down low , say coming into land or chasing somone and you look out of the cockpit at a very unrealistic landscape such as what il2 looks like in this day and age , thats a real killer , I do hope that we get the enviroment to match the level of detail we have already been shown in vehicals , weapons ect.

agree, if you think about it practically where does 90% of the action actually take place in multiplayer? Within 3000km and less - and that's being generous, its more like 1000km and lower.

There is an interesting video showing trees getting mangled, smashed and broken on the SpeedTree website:

http://www.speedtree.com/showcase/

-click on the "Physics - Breaking Trees" link on the left hand side

I'll put a disclaimer in here - it mentions Beta features, I have NO IDEA if SOW will be like this!! But interesting to see what is possible now - (this may be old news to those of you with experience of modern games, but to an old il2 diehard like myself it's pretty amazing)

Apologies to those who have had their fill of the tree debate:

and

I'd put it more charitably and quote Forrest Gump :

"My momma always said, 'SOW updates are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get next.' "

Good post Kendo65.
I had no idea what Speedtree software was capable to do.
It´s Physx accelerated, good reason to buy Nvidia card in my planned upgrade for SOW.

From above post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWWC1ecbtw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhwZ7...channel&fmt=22

If this is what we can expect to see , im very happy.

+1.
Preparing to be a Stuka pilot in SOW.:cool:

Actually, I'm not sure that this will be the case in SOW. :(

There are a few variants of SpeedTree as far as I can see - I think that video showcases the just-released version 5.1

If Oleg and Co have been working with the SpeedTree software for some time it'll likely be an older version and I have no idea how the physics modelling will compare to that video or whether PhysX will be supported.

I expect it'll still be impressive though. :)

---
Edit: SpeedTree 5 does support Physx, so maybe...? I'd wait to hear it from Oleg though before making plans.

It´s Ok.
I´m waiting for release to do the best new system I can with lesser expense.
I´m considering the ATI 5970 but if SOW series will be Nvidia optimized, the GTX 480 probably is the way to go.

S!

Well I hope no more nVidia bandwagon as ATI and nVidia can BOTH do DirectX 11 just fine at the moment. PhysX is bound only to nVidia which I dislike strongly, because it hampers players that do not have this brand nor want to get one.

This looks very nice, showing just what is possible with Speedtree (maybe; I'm unsure). NOT that we can expect anything like this!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjZc9...eature=related


...but in ten years time maybe :-)

maybe in 10 years.. but how do u expect to appreciate it traveling at 200-300 mph;)

I land!
:-)

He he he.
I just do a nice crash beside it. :D
They say any landing you can walk away from is a good one... right?

Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X Phys - X

(guess who just bought a new Nvidia gfx card?)

Their may be some people who question the verity of the tree's and the "look" of the European theater...

BUT, I'm feeling very hopeful about the future of the sim/game. If their was ever a weakness with the feel and look of the Pacific theater (in the past), it now looks as if Korea, China, the Solomon islands, ect, should be dripping with authentic atmosphere...

I'm feeling excited about all those low-down (low altitude), twisting and turning China theater missions...Ya I know, I have an even longer wait for this dream to come true then we do waiting for "SoW BoB"...LOL

So? Do you want us to guess what card you bought? Or will you be a good sort and just tell us? ;) Is it a GT250? :D
Flyby out

I spent almost my whole tax refund on a BFG GTX 285 OC. :oops:

Link to eBay auction for GTX 285

I'd be interested to see a in-game screenshot of the model of an engine like... the BF109 without its cover on or something like that... now that the graphics are starting to get so much higher quality.

maybe there's already a screenshot like that, but there's just so many screenshots to sift through.... and alot of them aren't labled...

is there a thread somewhere maybe on another forum that has all the WiP screens sorted/labled?

well that answers my thoughts on the best way to handle forest crashes.

Try these:

Foobar's:
On the right of the screen you can navigate to earlier updates (or click on 'previous' at bottom of the screen):

http://fooblog.mexxoft.com/category/...spiele/page/2/

Here are ones I collected. I lost a few when I changed computers a while ago:

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ger/?start=all

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...eenShot007.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...nShots_002.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...nShots_001.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...09E-3_01-1.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...Hurry_dam3.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...-110C-4_05.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...-110C-4_09.jpg

that card is still awesome. nice buy! :D
Flyby out
PS guys, about that Spitfire screen shot: those holes look huge! I wonder if those are from 20mm explosive shells?

[QUOTE=major_setback;152492]Try these:

Seeing the tires stowed away nicely, makes me wonder if the tire's are subject to damage such as getting a flat :confused:...Oleg?

thanks, really cool, exactly what i was asking about, awesome :D

Species of trees? You gotta be kidding? April Fool's joke right?
 

Gimme a break. Most people wouldn't know an Elm from an Oak from a Maple and most simply wouldn't care. They would care about the graphical representation sure but the SPECIES of tree............:rolleyes:
The amount of time and work going into this sim and I can't believe people are worried about what type of trees there are! Hopefully I missed a post and this is an April Fool's joke.
Yes, the quality standards are high (and should be given Oleg's fantastic track record with IL2) but again I bet a pound to a penny that 99.9% of the sim pilots playing this game wouldn't give a damn what type of tree species is represented short of palm trees showing up around Duxford, LOL.
;)

Of course at the palm house in Kew gardens they would have to be a must!

Cheers!

I updated the screenshots in the Photobucket account, most of the aircraft WiP's should be there now.
Note: these are the full sized images, some of the ones on Foobar's site are reduced in size!

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ger/?start=all

Hi,

Just a little question.

Will BoB use dx11 technologies ?

Thx

Jippy,

Il suffit de faire une recherche du mot "DX11" dans ce forum, t'aurais obtenu par example:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...82&postcount=5

:D

Slt,
Insuber

Just do a search for "DX11" in this forum, you would have got for example:

Insuber... this is English forums

When?
http://img.leprosorium.com/840604

Heisan :) Takk for sist!!

English forum, huh ? :)

fixed =)

Hey calm down mate, I've seen that he is from France ... slept well tonight btw ? :D

I disagree.

The graphics in WOP are indeed superior to SoW (from what I've seen). Now if you want to count every other aspect about SoW over WoP, then that's another discussion. IMO, WOP is the best graphical flight sim released to date. Period.

Yep, Shaderhacker, you've brought it to the point!

...the best GRAPHICAL flight sim...

nothing to add.

I just came over a some photographs. Might be interesting for all these "the gras here in England is greener" typ of guys

http://www.modelforum.cz/download/fi...8788&mode=view

http://www.modelforum.cz/download/fi...8790&mode=view

Seems pretty dry gras for me

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. At the moment everything is TOO green. :) England is a drab, dreary place full of steel mills and suet puddings. ;)

For a WIP, great Stuff. I hope to take this wonderful game home real soon :rolleyes:
until then i fly a little ;) by myself.

Cheers

Chris