How am I a noob? A noob of what exactly? Because I don't sit there slack-jawed at the pretty graphics makes me a noob? Just because you have a weird hard-on for this arcade game and decide to get defensive is no need for name calling. Nothing I said was untrue. Clearly some of you guys like this game for the graphics, as has been stated by yourselves many times over. I think it's funny that the WoP fanboys are calling other people fanboys because not everyone agrees with them. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

To be clear, I have nothing against the WoP/BoP devs and wish them luck. I've not kept up with the patches (are they trying to patch it up to a proper sim?), but the last I checked it's just a pretty arcade game, using watered down assets from the IL-2 series but with oversaturated, whiz-bang graphics, originally made for consoles and then offered to the PC community under a slightly different guise. I fail to see how supporting this game furthers the sim community in any significant way. It's for a whole other gaming niche entirely.

Sims are arguably a dying breed, but this certainly is not the direction I want to see them go. A "Sim-lite" or a sim-"ish" arcade game like BoP does not interest me at all. Either it's a true sim or it isn't. Don't wallow in-between.

________
Launch box

SoW fanboys are setting themselves up for disappointment. People are acting like SoW is going to ship with a brainchip - it's still a game folks, there will be hundreds of things that you will be able to point out that are unrealistic about SoW, just look at the screenshot discussions. Heck I have yet to even see a "flat-bottom" cloud in a SoW screen shot.

*inspired a post for update thread*

Who is acting like SoW will be perfect upon release?

Just a hunch, but flawed or not, I'm guessing SoW ships with a far more advanced flight and damage model than any WWII flight sim to date. I know the all important flat bottom clouds might be absent upon release, but I'm sure they'll be patched in later. If that's not acceptable I'm sure BoP will oblige because...geez...it's pretty!
________
SchoolGirls

1) I wouldn`t make any judgment on how SOW will look like just yet and especially compare it with the product that is already gone gold.
2) Comparing a brand new product to 9 year old sim is kinda silly.. Needless to say that IL-2 is still superior to WOP in few departments as was already mentioned.
3) I would love for WOP to succeed, and i hope that developers will not stop in the process of closing the gap between flight sim wannabe and the actual flight sim.
4) Don`t think for a second that Maddox is scared of competition, he will only welcome it... and you know who will win at the end? Us, and only us.
5) Yes, i bought WOP and i think developers did an excellent job and i have a feeling that they will do much more to please air combat junkies. I can only wish them best of luck in their venture.

and finally...
6) Yes i am still alive and kicking :) Happy New Year all :D

Hey, you guys who like to play with "BoP" or "WoP" should have some fun and enjoy yourself....but whats with the bad mouthing of "SoW"? Why do you need to tear down "SoW" just to justify your enjoyment of "BoP"? I think thats kind of lame...

In all honesty you seem to know nothing about the game. I respect your opinion but you have never played WOP. Who in the freakin world is telling you its a arcade game ? Thats such BS its a freakin Riot !

Let me ask you this, When was the last time you saw a Arcade game with full left Aileron trim, Aileron right trim , evelator trim, Full flap control, full Prop pitch control, Fuel mixture control, wheel brake, open and close cowl, Full engine managment clear down to the supercharger, Spins , Stalls, Red outs, Black outs, When you pull G's the force pulls your head around in the plane more realistic then any other sim I have ever played. A Amazing game wind engine , where every close pass of any plan ( PROP WASH) throws you around , even your own prop wash from the ground when you dive to close can wreak you in a tenth of a second.

Really, I'm floored that you call this a arcade game. The only reason I call it a light Simulation game is because there is no Mission editor yet and I say yet because the Dev's are looking to make one.

I have played Sims for 30+ years, I am as Hard core as any Sim Fan out there. I play Black Shark like it is going out of style on full sim settings.
I play ROF every other day and Il2 1946 (AAA) still atleast 15 hrs a week.

Who in the Hell is telling you this is a arcade game ? Where did you get that from ? Its just like Il2 1946, You can tweak the settings from a arcade style clear to full simulation. Its no different.
I really think someone gave you some Bad info on WOP.
I wouldn't be playing it if it was a arcade game, even if it was full mind blowing photo realism with the graphics !


Now don't take this post as any kind of attack against you, Please don't ,,because Its not one in any way. I respect your opinion and your right to voice that opinion, its just your so off base in your comments here that its really almost funny. I don't find it funny though, because I'm getting the feeling that your just miss informed about WOP.
If I come across as blunt, its mostly my complete and Utter Shock that you and others call this game a Arcade game.


And,
As for whoever it was that called you a noob, well thats just BS too. You don't even know anything about Necrobaron.


PS , And anyone who isn't looking forward to SOW ,,, WELL GO JUMP IN A NEAR FROZEN LAKE ! LOL If you aren't looking forward to SOW then you shouldn't even be here ! Even if SOW has some issue on launch, OLEG will fix them and it will become a legendary WWII sim. Thats one thing I 'll bet on.

DESODE

It`s like calling unborn baby ugly... i guess some can judge just by looking at the sonogram :D

S~! My brother from another mother !!!

No but you can see birth defects :cool:

Birth defects would have something to do with birth :D That`s why they call them birth defects... no? ;)

S~! CrazyIvan

In honor of your return to the forums. I will this one time let you slide.

Welcome back Bro and a very Happy New Year to you and all who bought Wings of Prey.

P.S
Can't wait to flame you in W.o.P tommorow :-P

Ok your majesty, thanks for sparing my existence :) and i will not comment on PS part :D

The Archbishop of the church of Oleg has spoken.

Birds of Prey is Good !

Let us pray that Pope Oleg will bring forth the miracle.

I did mine, got CrazyIvan playing W.o.P and excited to fly again. :cool:

+1 for Desode post. Nice job.

I just remembered... IL-2 prior to 4.0 wasn't that "sim" isn't it? WoP has apparently the 4.0 FM in it.... like the torque etc. Remember when 4.0 came out and all the planes suddenly started to desperately need rudder pedals? C'mon... you must remember :D .

For people calling WoP just an arcade I dare them to try the demo with full sim settings and then play "IL-2 Sturmovik" demo which was a sim from the start and make a comparison.

Just don't mind the joke/mistake that flaps toggle is called "simulation" but flaps up and down aren't although they do are more realistically simulated. Example... toggle flaps (which is called simulation) gives you in a dive nice convenient combat flaps on Spitfire or landing flaps if you land or take off flaps if you take off as opposed with "non simulation" flaps up/down that has only raised and landing in the same Spitfire and guarantees jamming in a fast dive. I must say too that the dives near ground are adrenaline rush in this game... boy the sounds and the shakes!

Don't mind the AI that is a bit retarded but at least has numbers.

Also be tolerant to the lack of many features that adds complexity to IL-2 1946 but not necessarily simulation of real thing. Like: open/close canopies at 400km/h, locking the tail wheel just to get yourself in the woods, CEM that gives no real trouble for planes not too automatic, nice variety of bombs but with effects far off reality such 1000kg near tank and no scratch, bombers with nice bombsights but with bombs falling the same and with disregard to weather etc, gunners that are all Zaitsevs, bridges that can be distroyed with 60 kilos bombs and trains that go boom from few MG's rounds, G forces modeled the same for each plane as long it has a human piloting it, fuel distributed in one big single tank, unrealistic airfields, unrealistic AI view, unrealistic clouds flying (heck, only with 6DoF mod on you can get yourself really shake in the clouds), unrealistic guns shooting at any Gs, big maps with schematic cities that nobody can or want to fly over... etc etc etc... I let you continue...

Sure you will think... but the 1946 game is old has limitations... of course. that was my point to show how relative the thing is. I just pointed many things that are modeled in 1946 but they just give the impression they are simulating something realistically ... like in RPGs where you simulated an armor by some general points. Is still a simulation but... very crude.

So... is Christmas holidays... maybe you have more time... try the demo... have a bit of fun.


Joke aside... I think SoW will look even better than WoP cause Oleg stated he will use DirectX although he was saying till recently (I think) that the game is still OpenGl... I guess he changed the engine and I wouldn't be very surprised to see Dagor Engine 4.0 powering SoW.


Finally do remember that Oleg Maddox is in the WoP game credits! I mean... WoP is not quite the competition... you know... is like calling Honda: "Hey Honda, watch out for Lexus! Boo!"

I still hate that blinding bloom... I find it arcade-ish... but, that P-51 looks criminal... minus the rockets :P

This is a good post from the game's official board:
One of my former squadmates tested the beta... he's enthusiastic for all the visual effects (ground and inflight effect like the oil trails who soils your canopy) but he's a little concerned by the fact he can (could?) do candle at cruise speed to gain 2,5km of altitude...

Personally I search for flight model accuracy, and by now WoP can't give it to me.

Thanks for the adult attitude and you don't come across as blunt at all. Admittedly, I understand it is somewhat of an exaggeration to call it purely an arcade game (at least when compared to HAWX or Ace Combat), but is Wings of Prey not essentially a PC edition of Birds of Prey? I have had the misfortune of playing Birds of Prey and to call it a sim is to do so in the loosest of terms, even on "realistic" settings. It had some sim elements, for a console game, but I can't imagine anyone who is into sims seriously calling it a sim. Are these two games totally different? If so, I'll admit that I've been mistaken. I'm not saying WoP/BoP isn't fun for those who are into that sort of thing (more power to you), but don't jump on those of us who don't think its sim enough to be taken seriously. Again, if WoP is totally different than BoP and is in fact simply IL-2:1946 with better (albeit overdone) graphics, then I'll put my foot in my mouth/eat my hat/eat crow, take your pick. My understanding was that WoP and BoP were essentially the same thing for different platforms.

Oh, and a "Hello!" to CrazyIvan! I haven't seen you since the Ubi days!

________
Volcano Vaporizers

I updated the demo and i found 2 nice things and one so-so...

1. You have now a toggle gunsight button which is more sim-realistic than IL-2 1946 :P... you know in 1946 it just lock you to the gunsight and you are an ace... or something (kidding, right?), well, in WoP it just turns off the gunsight... the reflector light... uber! I asked for a mod in 1946 and no one did it :LOL: . maybe in SoW we get the feature of changing the light bulb in the air if it burns out :D .

2. Less milk in BoB map... a bit better

3. The demo map with "battle of the Bulge" changed to "battle of Berlin" where you get an La-7... :( I don't know... That P-51 beats everything at least in the looks... the real plane too.

Id say the best way to describe it is,, they took lots of things out for the console version. I personally have my idea that it was made for Pc then dubbed down and put on console, then finally released on Pc.

Its way different in WOP. You have all the things that I mentioned, and those weren't in the console version. The Dev's had issues with the BOP publisher.
The Publisher did all kinds of stupid shit like group market testing and things of that nature and then forced the Dev's under contract to take these things out of BOP. Just one example is the Red outs and Blackouts. The test group told the publisher that they were confused by this being in the game, so the publisher made them take it out of BOP.
That was just one of the things that Anton pointed out months before BOP was released. You could tell by his posts in the BOP section, that I'd say about 3 months before release the Dev team was really bummed by what the publisher would let them release.
They clearly had a vision of Il2 1946 with better graphics and the publisher screwed them out of releasing the game they wanted to release.

Hence the new Name "Wings of Prey".
It wasn't about making a different name to release it on Pc for no reason. They wanted the game released without being controlled by that publisher. I'd say thats why its called WOP, and not BOP. They had to change the name for legal reasons so they could release it on Pc.

A example of how different it is now:
In BOP (Console), I could set 16 enemy planes in the QMB(training) and I could jump in a La 7 and crush them all in 5 minutes and not die once. In WOP your honestly hard pressed to take even 2 enemys out, without dieing ! God forbid you put 5 in there , cause they will chop you down in seconds !
It really feels like a completly different game. Plus having all the engine managment and things of that nature in the game really changes the whole gameplay. Things like flying a 12,000 + feet will really make certian planes shine.
You didn't have that in BOP.
As for the game itself, yeah its mostly the same campaign but with more missions added and all the german cockpits. When you combine that with the simulation gameplay elements that were cut out of the BOP Ver, you find a real sim at it core now.

I honestly can understand how you could consider BOP(console) more of a arcade style, even on its Sim setting, because you could do things that were complety impossible in any of the real aircraft and that was Bop set on Simulation mode.

My main point is the whole gameplay is damn near Il2 1946 now, its not what BOP was on console. With sim mode on in WOP its Hard as heck !, and you can really see what the Dev team wanted the game to be.


Now, they don't have that Publishers money anymore, so its up to us to support WOP. The Devs have said that if we support them they will make the changes we want, both in features and gameplay. They have really shown this to be true as I have seen in the beta with 10 patches in a month.

I'm sure it really was tuff for them to deal with all this crap on the consoles. Plus even if you set the publisher issue aside they still had to wait on patch certification on consoles just to release 1 single patch !!! That can take 6 weeks !

Can you imagine the Hell this Dev team went through.
First, your forced to hack your game into what you didn't want it to be.
Then when the consumers/Bop community gripes about it and the publisher says " alright patch the game with some of the things you wanted " , then you have to deal with the 6 week console certification process just for 1 patch to make it to the community.



DESODE

I pre-ordered the game, this should allow you to play the demo.
But the download does not work for me. I only downloads a 2,5MB file.

I cancelled the order and asked for refund. Heard nothing yet so far.

Last time that I bought a download game, I want a disk !!

the 2.5 mb download is just the exe for the full download....just double click it to start the full download of the game...or download the torrent file for etorrent.

Yes after a lot of positive support in this forum WoP is picking up steam. (Your welcome Anton :rolleyes: )

Shame they are not interested in addressing the multiplayer issues.

- No Dedicated Server
- Inability to set password on server that you host. Anyone who feels like can join your game - whether you like it or not
- Recent lame attempts to force people to fly on lower texture settings = whether they like it or not (but hey we will never notice - cause were stupid.... )
- Patches break MP compatibility. So if you don't like a certain patch - you still cannot connect to someone even on your version.
- Gaijin - assume your machine is for their use and so is your bandwidth.

'Console mentality' as regards to online.
Soon as you set up a room, you have kids joining, screaming into their mic in various languages, no ptt that I saw - just a mess!

They can learn a lot from Oleg in regards to Multiplayer Ethos.

.
.

Dedicated servers are planned, the texture thing online was fixed within something like 48 hours, patches that break MP compatibility, never heard of that before ever...

Not sure why you seem to think the multiplayer password wont get fixed either, everything Gaijin have done so far leads me to think it will be sooner or later.

As for you wanting some sort of recognition for promoting Wings of Prey, after the above... seriously?

The online textures were fixed after I and a few others MADE them fix it. -- that must be the part that really bothers you.

[insert sarcasm]

I will listen/trust you Dano - causes you are always 'ahead of the curve' ...... in the Flight Sim world .... :rolleyes:

seriously..

lmao.

I played the demo.


THIS IS NO SIM IT'S KIDSPLAY (ARCADE) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


City looks good from above but less good when closer to the ground.

Definately seems to be a lot of conflicting information regarding WoP...
________
Motorcycle Tires

If I remember right from the Xbox 360 demo, you need to play the tutorial missions to unlock realistic and simulation difficulties. Anyone playing with only arcade difficulty unlocked would indeed call it childs play........

S~!

Not really all that hard to understand........
Best Terrain Engine ever made in a flight sim = people giving them money in the hopes that they might actually do something with it.
W.o.P did us ALL a favor - It made what were now going to get in S.o.W exponentially better.
Be Sure ... A competitive Oleg is a wonderful thing :wink:



As for W.o.P
It comes from a console game.
Its console roots are particularly evident in the fms/ and multiplayer aspect (which is currently a joke).
Also their community is nothing like ours ..... average age here is 38 with many actually holding a PPL or Glider Rating. There its in the teens.
This will be hard to overcome - but they seem to want to do it. They deserve a chance to.
I am hopeful that they will mature into our market.


If not .... its simple .... they will die.

Its up to them now.

.
.

I`ll sum it up for you, IT`S MY OPINION OF COURSE :)

Comparing to SOW in any department... i dont think so...

I`ll just compare to IL2.. Things are better or equal...

Planes - external model is close to IL2 quality, but some modders pushed IL2 ahead.

Pits - some better some worse, better ones might win with help of dynamic lightning which take pits to new level. But once again, mods have pits with fresh textures that are fantastic

FM - not quiet there yet... options to be a flight sim are there.... but feeling of flight is odd, it feels like even high end aircraft is struggling to stay in the air.. And headshake is too much IMO.

DM - Similar to IL2 visually, too early to tell about impact of damage on the flight behavior

AI - i wont say anything....

MP - lack of it

SP- didnt check yet... but based on how AI flies... i donno.

Visuals - definitely a strong point, ground is fantastic, forest, mountains, etc... Not too impressed with the water tho. Tracers are nice too IMO. Smoke, explosions are up there too.

Overall Potential? Definitely yes... How much of potential... that`s up to dev team :D

Now i am going to duck....really low ;)

Am I right in assuming that the primary purpose of this topic is to scare Oleg into producing a visually stunning landscape for "SoW"? Am I also right in assuming that "13th Hsqn Protos" (& possibly others) feel that Oleg needs this "encouragement" to produce a visually stunning world around our beautiful new cockpits? Am I also correct in assuming that when we finally do see screen shots of the "in-game" terrain, that we will have to thank "13th Hsqn Protos" (& zakkandrachoff for the topic) for scaring Oleg into making a better (city) landscape then "WoP"? Well, in that case...I'll just get it out of the way now and thank you all. ;)

Now now Proton, comrade Protos just want SOW to succeed, just like a rest of us. Personally i dont see anything scary yet. Time will show :D

;)

I dont think WOP is going to scare OLeg, its a great piece of work which shows what could of been done with IL2 (in some areas). The landscape is very good and very very similar to that shown on the SOW DVD all them years ago. The game runs very smooth and the FPS does not drop at all on my rig with everything 'whacked up' something I have never been able to achieve with IL2. Personally I think Oleg has been involved in this project more than most of us think, which can only be a good thing and is probably the reason why he would not be concerned about WOP being serious competion to SOW as a flight sim.

I highly doubt that, since IL-2 was originally developed in the late nineties. But yeah, I agree, it looks very good, and terrain-wise it certainly looks much, much better than anything we've seen from SoW so far, despite how much some people like to delude themselves. I don't know why they're worrying yet, though, long time before the game's released still.

I tried this games demo. I am not impressed. Its physics are somewhat bad, nothing like il2, the planes are too easy to fly, the sounds are decent sometimes, horrible others, the land textures are good but honestly rise of flight has better ground, with moving grass and everything, and it actually has very good physics. This game is no competition whatsoever to il2 except for the graphics department (of which the explosions are not really any better either).

Got Screenshot ?

No unfortunately and my demo ran out cant open it anymore. Ill see if I can pull one off youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63KW_EQ72yU
The best I can do on such short notice. Watch in 1080p, makes it really hit home. THIS should be storm of war right now. Lets hope SOW exceeds this level of awesomeness.

Thats some nice footage...I like the waving grass, it opens my mind to the possibility's.

S~!

Its ok, but it reminds me of IL2. The scale is the same ..... off.

Can't touch the terrain in the Wings of Prey -- my favorite map is 'Bulge'. I can't ask for more than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmMCd6BfJQ


I personally don't care for that kind of grass. It would be fine in a tank or infrantry sim but seems out of place/unnecessary to me. IMHO not single cpu cycle should be spent on waving grass.

W.o.P has done terrain properly for a flight sim.

However ..... taste is a personal thing. Good flights in RoF.

I have some screenshots here (running in lowest settings as my computer isn't exactly NASA standard). Trees and grass are set to "Low", as they're some good FPS killers and, in such close combat, I can't afford any lag.

Rise of Flight did a nice job in archieving eye-candy in a realistic way, specially with the reflections. Not really important on this discussion, anyway, but I think they also got the 'drama' factor right. I felt a bit weird after my plane got one wing bent, I tried to recover but, already low, the wing was ripped of and it dived towards the ground... This only happened once in IL-2, there it's just hit Ctrl+E and see if the pilot jumps, and if he smashes into the ground. When you can't even jump, things are different.

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...cDe0WVvXbt.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...2TdNBg3Pf-.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...FD2BrtkrWG.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...-QEWzZvWf2.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...TebpSA18Fa.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...rUNqXpAeRg.jpg

Eagle Dynamics also has some pretty good-looking environment, specially if we're talking about DCS. Again, very low settings, so it does not show the full potential of the sim.

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...0IjEkQWjgW.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...NYKy-o669u.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...GJsE55TqQ2.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...rrhURMHJrZ.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...Ip7KTCNbAp.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...Jz7B2BCibc.jpg

http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos...LdmwhxPQRA.jpg

am really enjoying wings of prey , it has a lot of potential , imo its middle of the road in terms of flight models.

very enjoyable.

I just dont see how the terrain is much better than RoF at altitude. I dont mind the grass, it makes it more immersive and on my computer ran at max graphics at a high fps level. People with older machines might take issue however. Im not sure what you mean by scale, as I felt the same flying RoF and WoP in terms of scale, only that RoF actually has a good flight model (very good actually). There isnt too much to expect from a ww1 flight sim anyway, cuz honestly, there wasnt that much going on in the air in that time...ground forces and stuff would be nice though. Dcs black shark has both scale and great physics and I love it, only the coding is so bad that it slows down on max graphics on a brand new gaming rig so thats rather tragic. A good flight sim, to me, should have good graphics and good physics, and that includes the flight model of black shark or RoF and graphics such as grass, good shadows, reflections etc. RoF has both, Dcs has them too. WoP has potential, unfortunately that is all it has for now, its too arcadish, both in flight model and options. Ill be waiting till SoW comes out or WoP is realistic enough to give it a second look, but honestly flight model should be the most important consideration when making a sim. Just my (long) opinion.

I have a question so you can finish the whole campaign and single missions on full Sim mode with Limited fuel and limited ammo and no retrys ?

I'd love to see someone do this and post a video of each mission. I'm personally finding myself hard pressed to pull it off.

Desode

I believe so. I dont have the unlocked version. Its the full game but in demo mode (weird I know) but yo ucan as far as I can tell. Unfortunately what gets me is that the sim mode isnt realistic enough, not that the game has arcade modes, which is fine with me.

What isn't realistic enough about it ? Be specific, so the Dev's know what your talking about. They have said they are willing to work with the Sim Community to change things but people have to be specific.

What do you find different between the FM of Il2 1946 and WOP ?
I play both and have flown each plane from WOP then switched to Il2 and flew the same plane and I can't tell much difference. They stall and spin at the same speeds and everything. The only thing I can think it people have their Stick sensitivity set different on the 2 games. If you tweek the sensitivity on both games so they match you will see the FM are the same.

I'm not trying to argue in any way , I just want to understand what you mean you, so I can check it out and post it for the Dev team.
Desode
PS
The first couple of missions are pretty easy even on sim but the missons get Crazy hard pretty fast. How many missions can you fly in the demo ?

Cool. Ok the planes I tried, spitfire and p-51, this is whats wrong (mostly with the spitfire, I havent tried the 51 enough). Its too easy to land, the narrow landing gear isnt simulated well enough to display the dangerous effects of a bad landing. The cannon and machine guns sound the same and have about the same damage effect (or lack thereof randomly). Damage to the airframe appears to have little effect on the flight model (I have yet to evaluate that more thouroughly in the simulator mode). The plane climbs too agressively. I reached altitude too fast and at too high an angle of attack, and the stalls are either on or off, the spinning which appears great, is actually too easy to exit and stabilize. The plane accelerates from standstill to tail airbourne and then wheels off the ground too quickly and in general it appears to have too much lift at the wings. The plane also accelerates to maximum velocity much faster than it should, its far too powerfull (maximum velocity does seem about right though). I will evaluate the 51 more but thats what I saw with the spit, then Ill get back to you. Its not that the flight model is BAD, it isnt really. Its just far enough away from real to make it annoying because you can see all its potential sitting right there. Also, a nice panel of switches for in game realism settings like il2 has would be a great option to have beside the 3 main arcade, real, and simulator settings. Hope that clarifies my opinion a bit.

Now thats good info, Make sure to post this at the DEV forums http://forum.yuplay.com/ under the WOP section.

Aslo

Make sure you have your sensetivity increased in WOP. It will effect the FM characteristics. I would recommed starting with it at High and then coming down till you find the FM's spins and stalls matching Il2 1946 for the same plane.
The Fm's in Wop are from directly from Il2 and Oleg is in the Game credits for them.

Have you looked at the stats for the model of the Spitfire which you are flying in the demo and timed the climb rate with the real stats for the plane ?
As for the Damage model , you are sure you are using the sim settings ? I experience a great deal of change from the damage. Sometimes its to to point you can't fly the plane and have to bail out, other times the plane take varied degrees of compensation to maintain level flight, depending on the amont of damage done.

Desode

S~! Desode

I am one of the biggest supporters of what W.o.P can be. However .....

... to say that there is not much difference between W.o.P and IL2 flight models is 100% ridiculous ....... Acceleration/climb aerodynamics ect.... are vastly different.

IL2 is superior in every regard when it comes to physics.

Now you give me IL2 physics with W.o.P graphics and I will drop 100 dollars/euros INSTANTLY. But until then w.o.p is work in progress. Work that is held back by its console roots/community.

Also W.o.P forums are a bloody mess.... and ask yourself if they would ever tolerate a thread like this in their forum ???? Never.


Its a sign of the maturity of the mods/Oleg/ and 1c that this discussion is even allowed to take place here. Thats why we are all still trusting in him. Oleg has BIG respect in all flight sim communities. Don't let the fact that some of us have lovers spats with him occasionally fool you. WERE STILL MARRIED :razz:

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.

On that note - I think that this thread has served its purpose. ;)

Time to lock it.

Happy New Year to ALL.

I agree on the Acceleration/climb aerodynamics but with the sensitivity changed in WOP the stalls and spins are the exact same speeds on every plane. We should all mention the Acceleration/climb aerodynamics on the WOP forums. I know somethings where changed on the FM's in console version.
I also agree Il2 is way better in every way, so don't think I'm in any way trying to say WOP is better.

I just can't stress enough how much the sensetivity settings in WOP change the FM as far as turns and stalls. It makes such a difference that if the sensetivity is turned down, just about none of the planes will stall or spin. It completly changes the FM in that aspect.

DESODE

wop does have the potential , once it gets the flight models in some shape it will be a winner. imo its not to bad atm ..

middle of the road. having never flew a real spitfire or bf109 or any aircraft for that matter i cant compare.
but it sure feels not to bad against il2 .

I believe WoP fills the gap between pure arcade game and sim. And that's all what is needed. For sim there's Il-2 and one day SoW, and for arcade game there's plenty small games or whatever Ubi has released.

I have bought WoP, I'm pretty happy with it even if I find quite some stupid errors : explosions and other FX, non-plane models, bad speed impression.
But the game is beautifull, and it will help SoW have a quality standard for release concerning those graphics.

Of what can see SoW is really much more detailed, just that the screens never use AA and other polish effects so yeah it still looks like Il-2 with more loads of detailed 3D models.

BUT what I would love to hear / read, is Oleg's own opinion about Wings of Prey! Monsieur Oleg?

S!

Without going into FM/DM or effects and other stuff I must say this after testing the demo. If WoP is based on IL2 engine then PLEASE give that code to IL2. I ran the other demo for VVS flying La7 over Berlin. There is a LOT going on with artillery and flak firing, battle raging on, smoke pillars rising all over Berlin and planes plummeting down and of course lot of planes and buildings. And there is NO STUTTER whatsoever! The game runs smooth. Try same in IL2 and you look at a slide show at best even with most powerful rigs :(

Another thing is that WoP demo worked without ANY tweaking in graphics or similar on ATI 5870HD card. If it uses OpenGL as IL2 (have not checked so deep yet), then please add the same support from WoP to IL-2 ;) :D I dare to say if IL2 engine got the improvements shown in WoP, then SoW would have a VERY strong competitor as IL2 has a ton more stuff already in it what SoW will not have at release..and most importantly runs on lesser hardware as well. Just my 2 cents..

I think oleg will not have competition of any Cain, except the Wings Of prey, that will keep the noobs flight simulator users.

Thunder Works and Fighters Ops is like dead projects, anyway, this are not competition for Storm Of War. Maybe if appears some "combat flight simulator X" or "Rise Of Flight 2", anyway, this are not comparison whit SOW.

Oleg has been doing a great job postings the advances "in work" to eliminate errors in a forum. Is very intelligent. The Best Part for oleg games is that every year we will buy a new scenery for SOW series: continuous money ingress.

Storm Of war will be the compared to ArmA2 in FPS. Noobs will play wings of Prey forever, in this case, Call of Duty MW:-P

maybe I will buy WOP, but only for keep my nerves calm for a wail in the eternal wait for SOW:rolleyes:

Storm of War, when released, won't face any competition, probably. Why? Because the only World-War 2 simulator that was dominating so far is from the same developers. The rest doesn't stand a chance.

Jet Thunder and Fighter Ops, although promising, deal with a completely different area. I'm not very into details of Fighter Ops so I can't compare to anything, but about Jet Thunder, it won't even compete with DCS. Why? Because it depicts aerial warfare in a specific conflict and time, while DCS works on fictional but possible scenarios in the Caucasus area.

So, we'll probably have:

- Storm of War lonely as top World War II flight-simulation, in terms of realism.

- Rise of Flight alone in nº1 position for fans of the Great War.

- DCS for the hardcore fans of modern airwarfare; with some competition with Jet Thunder, but these are more likely to co-exist in our HDs, instead of competing.

Enough options for every simmers. And for those who, as said by a member at Eagle Dynamics, don't like to "kill anything but time", there will still exist Microboring Flight Simulator X :-P

As the noseart on the P-47 says, "NO GUNS, NO GLORY". Oh wait, it's "GUTS". But the first version shall prevail :mrgreen:

PS: I don't know what Fighter Ops will try to replicate, so I don't know in what level we can put it. Because of it, it was left out of the comparsion.

Side by side comparison video between il2 FM and WOP FM on the Bf109 G6.

I thought some of you might find it intersting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPuXvo4DSmg



Desode

It's funny.

People flamed Rise of Flight because it didn't have some features at the start, but they're supporting Wings of Prey even considering the developers forgot to implement major features that interfere directly with the aircraft's behaviour?!

And, curiously, while the fact of it lacking some features in the very beginning was an excuse not to buy Rise of Flight, the same thing is used as an excuse to put faith on Wings of Prey. In the end some sound like "No, but it's still in development, buy it, they can fix it! Please, believe me!!" :mrgreen:

I'll stick with good and old IL-2, that was already developed and flies and looks closer to reality than Wings of Prey :)

LOL yeah I agree with your comments on the ROF thing !
Sad to hear you don't like Wop though.
I say buy the game , Support any form of Sim that comes to our Dieing Market. We have to few of them to bitch about.
I still play il2 and that will never change. I have 4hrs in already today flying some Il2 1946 missions.
At 1pm its ROF time till 4pm and then WOP from 5pm to 9pm !
Then DCS Black Shark at 9pm till 1 am !! LOL
Just bought OFF today so when it gets here I will add it into the list.

You just got to love Saturdays ! and like I said you can never have enough Great flight combat sims to enjoy.

Forever supporting any Flight Combat Sim I can afford, DESODE

I tried to download the demo, but the only thing the installer did was to slow down my computer. Didn't even open! I'm trying again today to see if it works, but it's really weird.

I'm just saying it based on the oppinions from supporters I've seen here. I dislike the graphics already, and it seems that flight models need some fine tuning.

By the way, as you mentioned "our dieing market", check this out:

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/feature...of-2009-Voting

We see a flight simulator leading the poll of "Best PC Game of 2009", beating RPGs, shooters and everything else.

So, how dieing do you think our market is?

:mrgreen:

Ah yes I have voted on it from 10 connections and have Forced 27 of my friends to vote for this too !!! I'm crying tears of joy that we have gotten SOW up there. Its great news. Trust me I'm doing everything I humanly can to make our market better. The community really came together on the Poll.
It made me very proud to see.
DESODE

EDIT: Nevermind, now it's installing. Let's see if it's really worth it.

I very much agree. RoF is everything a good flight sim should be in terms of graphics and physics, WoP is still in development, but here is the thing. WoP started out with roll models like il2 and others, it didnt have to build up a quality base from scratch. All they had to do was imitate the quality of il2 and bingo, you have a great flight sim. Instead I dont know what we got. I am going to evaluate the flight models of the p-51 and spitfire comprehensively against il2 and against records of both planes, probably tommorow. It seems that the 109 model is about right in the game, what I noticed is that the stall in WoP is just too easy to manage. Perhaps this is a game that will get very good with time, and I might even start posting comments in their forum to help, but here is an example of a game that should have had it right, the FIRST TIME out, not several patches later.

S!

Looking at the Bf109G-6 video. The differences are not big, this possibly because the pilot flying IL-2 has it configured and flown it for ages whereas WoP has different way of setting up controllers and different FM, which makes it easier to make errors. I would not compare WoP or IL2 directly. The feel of them is different from the short time I've tested it.

Supporting flight sims..well since Commodore 64! Still got cassette version of the Project:Stealth Fighter. Bought RoF as well, will buy WoP and of course SoW, when released. Still got Flanker 1.0, 1.5, Squadron Commander's Edition and 2.0, Jane's F/A-18, Jane's WW2 Fighters, Pacific Air War + add-ons, European Air War, B17 The Mighty 8th II, Battle Of Britain 1 & 2, EF2000, Hind, Falcon 4.0, IL-2 original + add-ons, Russian version, 1946, CFS 3 etc. All sitting on shelf :) Still a few I need to get to complete the collection ;)

As much as I wait for SoW myself too, it is funny to see how people think it will be out of this world. It will be a benchmark for sure, but didn't Oleg say somewhere that if the DM/FM was cranked up to maximum the game engine is capable of then the FPS above water without clouds or anything was something like 2FPS?! So if you really think the fidelity of DM/FM will be set to maximum in release..dream on ;) It will be advanced over IL-2 but at cost of hugely increased system requirements. You can not get it all without making sacrifices ;)

As of WoP. Sure console legacy shows, but it has potential as has RoF. So I would not diss it. Remember that developers of the WoP have all the tools and game engine info needed to change it. In IL2 the "not official add-on makers" do not have them and lot is based on trial & error thus making it slow in advances.

RoF is a good game. Runs flawlessly and has nice FM and DM..and the vintage feel :) What I personally dislike is the interface for configuring the joystick and other controls, way too clumsy. IL-2 still has one of the easiest ones to configure and seems WoP has too.

So what do we have in the end? A bunch of flight games of various degrees, and one to be released this year so we all can enjoy :)

I decided to play it for a bit and, as expected, it's arcadish and isn't even close to a simulation yet.

Graphics are a tad exaggerated and too dark.

Got to fly the B-17L, a light-weight variant produced in Russia, also known as La-7. It carries 32 bombs under the very same wing pylons. Whoa, those Russian engineers are good, aren't they :eek:?

Things are way too shaky from inside the cockpit, and views need some tuning.

Planes start burning in one short burst, no matter what.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, and I could go on forever, but I'll keep this short.

I have to say, the whole atmosphere of the mission is good, and the radio messages are nice. Still, it's not a simumlator in any way. Maybe I feel like this because I'm a bit spoiled by IL-2

A good arcade-like aviation game. Won't get any close to IL-2's 6, however.

U sure you have it on Sim mode, It just sounds like your describing arcade mode. I have spent 5 minutes trying to drop 1 b17 in Sim mode, pieces peeling off like crazy, one engine on fire, Huge holes all through the plane and its still pumping lead at me.

Your using full left Aileron trim, Aileron right trim , evelator trim, Full flap control, full Prop pitch control, Fuel mixture control, wheel brake, open and close cowl, Full engine managment clear down to the supercharger, Spins , Stalls, Red outs, Black outs, If you aren't your playing arcade mode. I don't how the pc demo works but in the console demo you have to unlock Sim mode to play it. In arcade mode you can drop a plane with 1 round.

Do you have your sensetivity (wop settings) turned all the way up so you can get experince the FM ? If not you will have almost no stalls and spins.
You won't have all those bombs if you turn on the Sim setting and set it to limited fuel and ammo.

I have never in my life of 30+ years of playing sims seen a arcade game with those features.

I still have yet to see one person be able to beat the game on full sim with limited ammo and fuel and no retrys. I have 6 of my DCS friends trying to do it and none of us can pull it off.

I really want to see someone pull this off, They will be a god in my book.

Sorry you feel the way you do , atleast you gave it a try, I guess the full version is a way different game then the demo, thank heavens I never tried the demo before I bought it.
Desode

LOL Yeah I still have 2 C64's set up in my Den ! Those where the good old days. You know your getting old when you grew up in those days. Before the WWW ! LOL We had modems set in Baud not even KB yet !

DESODE

I'm playing the demo.

Yes, plane stalls (sometimes even when it wasn't supposed to do so), blackouts (ridiculous, in this case; pilot passes out at the slightest sign of G force), engine overheats...

It's not arcade, but it isn't quite a sim yet.

I prefer good and old IL-2, the whole graphics stuff is just too dramatic to me.

I hear you, I will always perfer Il2 over WOP if I had to pick, I just can't wait for the day of Photo realism to get here, after ROF and WOP came out, Il2's GFX kind of lost the feeling for me a little. It still looks good but, the lighting just isn't doing it for me. Thats the one huge aspect of WOP I really love. The lighting and shadows just really make any game for me. You should not be able to see your flight panels perfect all the time. In real life lighting is a huge aspect of flight. It played a Big roll in all early air combat techniques. The other thing I like about WOP and ROF is the sense of speed, In both games if your buzzing the ground and zoom all the way out, the feeling of speed is spot on for the Aircraft of those times. I never get that feeling of 200 to 300 mph in Il2. I have flown 300 mph at 75 ft off the ground and it is really fast. Flying 50 off the ground in Il2 looks like 55 in my car.
I would love to have both the wind engines from ROF and WOP combined for, Il2. Wop has some of the best prop wash effects I have ever seen, and Rof's tail winds and wind in general are really good.
Il2 is the standard for Fm's and mission building, skins all that good stuff and it has given me years of Love.
I wish I could take the best of all three of these games (il2,WOP, Rof)and combine it together ! Then I would be pretty darn happy.
I just hope and pray SOW is really good.

DESODE

nice video done here , wops not that far behind il2 in flight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPuXvo4DSmg ;)

Another thing I noticed in that vid is that the pilot doesn't press down, or lift up in the seat during turns in WoP and the aircraft moves alot more like on rails when it should shudder and slip out more, especially in the high g turns. Gorgeous looking game that WoP but they'll have to patch it up further before I pull the trigger.

made a nice MP action vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9LUkcNL84E

Nice vid.

That's what I'm talking about. See what it took for that first 109 to burst in flames?

I have to say, movies do look awesome in this sim, because it already has all the movie effects most movie-makers use to give their productions a more dramatic look. The music, even if not exactly realistic, gives an amazing atmosphere to the whole thing. It's no simulator, but when you're just looking for some action and everything, it's great.

the flight parameters are not far behind il2 1946 someone made a video showing this.

sure they will also tweak the damage model more.

looking at some gun camera footage some of the planes get taken out very quick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6OTxPiViHk

give it time imo .

But there you can observe some very specific damage, for example, the FW-190 that blew up were hit in the wings, probably where the cannon shells were. In WoP it seems that every hit ignites the planes.

But you're right, I'll give it time... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. Ah, whatever, Storm of War will do the trick for me :mrgreen:

S!

Desode..true ;) In 80's when most of today's IL2 hotshots were still crapping their nappies we were fiddling with the floppies, cassettes and TurboLoaders ;) Commodore 64 was great until Amiga500 came and ruined my day ;) But time goes on and it is youth that rule now..hehe!

As of WoP and IL2. WoP is based on IL2 engine if I am not mistaken, but seems it has been heavily modified. What IL2 engine could take from WoP, making IL2 totally new game would be in my opinion the following:

1) Lighting. Self shadows and lighting in general is improved over IL2.
2) Sound engine. No more cracks, pops or planes heard miles away etc.
3) Code how big cities are handled! Look at demo and Berlin mission, not a single stutter or slowdown even with a lot of action. Seems that WoP let's the GPU do the work instead of CPU.
4) Plane models smoothened out, more detail. He111 for example, compare to IL2 and you know what I mean ;)

Those are some pointers. In general it seems WoP is using newer OpenGL than IL2(has v1.1 I think) and has better performance even under heavy action. So combine the code improvements to IL2 with all the new content and huh, we have a colossal game still..after 10 years of existence! Maybe we should hijack Gaijin guys and persuade them to improve IL2 :D

RoF also shows how IL2 engine can be improved and updated. If IL2 would get a treatment like that it would keep a lot of people with not so HiTech computers very happy :) SoW will demand a LOT of power if you want both eye candy to the maximum and complex FM/DM. OR Oleg's team have created a code that can simulate all this on a regular desktop machine not requiring a super computer ;) :D

Yeah I'm a little nervous about SOW and what I'm going to be able to get with it on my PC. I just built this PC a couple of months ago and I don't plan on building another one for a couple of years. I haven't overclocked anything yet so we'll just see when SOW finally gets here. I will be Bummed if I can't run it at pretty high settings.
I'm running ROF at all Max settings so I'm keeping my fingers crossed with Dreams of SOW.


Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black edition 3.00ghz
Ram 4 GB
Mobo: ASUS M3N72-D Nividia 750a sli

Graphic card : GIGABYTE GV-N26SO-896I GeForce GTX 260 Super Overclock 896MB 448-bit GDDR3
Core Clock 680MHz
Shader Clock 1500MHz
Memory Clock 2500MHz

OS :Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

S!

SoW will require a very high end machine to run all the bells and whistles. AS you have read, DirectX 11 can use CPU to calculate those gfx gimmicks the GPU does not support. And we know that the FM/DM/AI are already calculated by the CPU so this is only extra stress to it thus lowering performance. SoW will be way more complicated and will require a lot of horsepower, but that is the price to pay for more fidelity and all that ;)

It is surprising how well IL2 engine still holds on after 10 years. Modified in RoF and WoP and see what you get! Totally new effects, smoother gameplay etc. Just a wet dream that the code improvements could be brought to IL2, especially how it handles big cities etc. In WoP Berlin map with tons of buildings did not slow down my rig at all with all maxed out in 1920x1200! In IL2 the same would just make my rig do the slide show ;)

Intel i7 920 CPU
Intel DX58SO motherboard + HD Audio enabled
XFX 5870HD 1Gb graphics card
24" BenQ 16:10 screen
Windows 7 64-bit (home premium)
etc yadda yadda ;)

Ok so full real sims do not gather the kiddies and relaxed players that form the masses and bring in the dollars.

So what, that does not mean that we need to take a step BACK realism/simulation wise in flight sims. Why cant WoP have a full real settings and a relaxed settings, thus catering to the needs of both parties. Though this would have to include missions from take off to landing.

I am tired of seeing many things take a step back because it does not cater to the masses, look at how the trend in TV and entertainment is to dumb everything down to satisfy everyone.

As for myself I wont support WoP in any way as a serious simmer, I would say it is a great sim for relaxed players, but I do not want that to be the trend that simulations follow. I would rather have people like myself who get shot down a lot in a fighter in full real mp IL-2, stick with it vs jumping ship to something easier and more accessible but hey that's me just being selfish.

I guess I am happy for people that are enjoying it, but many here probably have very different views of the differences of what makes an acceptable Simulation.

Ill always hold out for the most realistic thing. Dont let IL-2 go the way of Papyrus's Nascar series, Falcon 4.0 , Baldurs Gate. (Thank god we are getting SH5)

I am so narrowminded I think I might get some type of "ANTI-Console Gamer" bumpersticker, lol (JK)

Well, to each their own. I guess I'm not a serious simmer since I play DCS and Rof and Il2 and then screw my reputation up by playing a "relaxed SIM like WOP" !

Darn it ! I so wanted to call my self a Serious Simmer ! Where is my Lolly pop and cookies ! I don't want to cry myself to sleep ! LOL


Sorry man, all in good fun I just found that kind of funny.

I'm more concerned with games not using dedicated servers then anything else.
I campaign against that with everything I have in me !
Thanks for the post , Desode

BoB and WoP
 

Privet Oleg,

First, thank you a lot for all the good time I spent playing IL2.

Like some simmers in this forum, I tested the demo version of WoP, and I was really impressed by the detailed graphics of this game, especially during overflights near cities or coasts

However I would not say that this game is a real flight simulator,like IL2. I would say it is between an arcade game and a real flight sim.

But Oleg, please, give us more item on the future bob that should come out this year. The little movie file you posted, is better than nothing, but a beta version of BoB would be a sacred gift for all fans of il2 who are waiting bob as the messiah.

Anyway, Oleg, I really hope that BoB will be released this year and that it will be as successful as its predecessor IL2 because of its graphic qualities and characteristics unique to real flight simulator.

Bonne année 2010 et meilleurs voeux

С новым 2010 годом и наилучшие пожелания

S!

Hard core simmer or not, there are several things in WoP and RoF that clearly show how much IL2 engine can be improved with new code without a totally new GFX engine. IL2 original engine is like 10 years old now and there has not been any major updates in the code even hardware has improved since release.

WoP and RoF take advantage of this and it shows with far better performance in certain conditions, like over cities and with lot of fire/smoke and other action around. If these new code improvements could be brought to IL2 then it's life could be extended a lot longer for those who do not have the money to upgrade for SoW. Because the truth is that you will not run SoW at maximum settings and get smooth game play with most of the "regular" hardware people have these days. The majority still run "normal" machines, not these overclocked high eng beasts. These geeks are a minority or most of them play FPS games mostly.

You said it...WoP and RoF are 2009 games! They use 2009 programming technologies where Il2 is using at its core 2000 technologies...
You seem surprised that there was no effort to bring these 2009 technologies to IL2...the answer is simple: it is possible, you "just" have to rewrite entirely the Il2 code!

As it happens this exercise is taking place just now under the secret code name SoW-BoB...

From another standpoint, do you really believe it would be financially wise from 1C and MG to try keeping afloat technology-wise an engine as "limited" as Il2? Expectations have leap-frogged several times since Il2 was published; it is unfortunate that so many people will not purchase SoW...according to you, that is!
I had the impression that Oleg's team did know one or two things about performance scaling...

I guess you will purchase it at first sight, like the rest of us....

JV

Well anyway I'm very curious about what will SoW look like with all options activated.
Oleg should post something close to actual footage with most of graphical options activated.

From what I can see ground detail and ground units are REALLY better than what WoP offers (grass, very decent modellisation of tanks, AA canons etc).
Same way, ingame physics and models are better : boats don't just explode always in the same way. Really good.

I'm just worried about all the FX stuff, and I have no idea if SoW will feature many eye candies.

examples :

Self shadow (used in Crysis, Far Cry 2, WoP PC version (only on planes), HAWX, Ghost Recon Warfighter) :

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/...nshot-hawx.jpg
Looks great when applied on clouds. Too bad it's not the case in WoP.

And other stuff like heat effect, haze, real time shadows for everything, etc.

With nowadays computers and the power that will be available in 6 months / 1 year, it is absolutly correct to imagine Crysis (2 years now!) graphical quality in a sim, without activating AA, Anistropic and Vsync.

BOP screenshots are strange

All the black gradient borders... I just don't connect with that.

I would think those borders would work on your psyche after a while - depressing

Otherwise the graphics look very good

BOP?

The gradient borders are what you see when there is a cinematic moment : it allows the player to understand when it's a "movie" moment and not a "hands on" moment of the game.

The game on the picture is HAWX(ubisoft) btw. There's a demo for PC version.

Actually, that's not self-shadowing, it's atmospheric effects to simulate what's called "Ray of god". The shadows themselves in the screenshot are not realistic at all, as the objects only cast shadows on the ground, but not on other objects and there is no difference between the lighting of the objects under the shadow and in the direct sun. ;)
(Apart from that, the term ray of god is because you can see brighter areas against the surrounding - it highly doubtful that you'd see such a single shadow on a bright day - the brighter areas would simply predominate the darker areas, blinding you)

Yeah I know it's supposed to be called god rays or ray of god, it just depends on what object it's used on.

Some pictures here show that its casted on models (the plane) : http://www.flickr.com/photos/4625192...7623021332077/ (pictures from me playing WoP on PC).

Well about if it's looking real or not, since I've been flying quite a lot in my life I would say that with so much intensity, no, it doesen't look like that exactly, but you can see it many times on a bright day.

Where you see it most is when there is loads of clouds and the sun over it, then you'll see rays of light instead of shadows.

The effect in the game gives one nice avantage : the scenery has much more depth, just like what happened on our screens with cloud shadows on the ground with vanilla Il-2.
WoP uses that effect on your plane in a much better way HAWX does, and it looks much more real.

I believe using that effect like what WoP does on both planes and clouds would really make SoW look great and real. Afterwards, if you can activate it or not with an option is always the best choice for everybody! :)

I remember this screen : http://cdn.cnetnetworks.fr/gamekult-...00375549_2.jpg who does?

The WOP Gaijin game engine has nothing to do with the IL-2 game engine other than WOP borrowing IL-2's FM and AI. WOP does a very good job on their own terrain engine, but I doubt it will stand up to the detail in SOW's terrain engine. Every terrain object in SOW will be more detailed with an elevation terrain that will include river banks.

WOP does a excellent job combining the detail they do have in a very playable frame rate without those ugly LOD pop up buildings etc. Although WOP did this with very small maps.
This will be SOW biggest challenge getting much larger maps with far more detailed objects to work with playable frame rates with no pop ups. This will be quite the feat if they pull it off.

The IL-2 engine is ten years and old and its long past time for the immergence of a new more expandable game engine.

One of the key points of any game, is the ability to suspend ones skepticism to the point where they can (somewhat) forget that they are sitting at a computer playing a game...Anything that is built into a game that can help the player indulge the fantasy is good. In some cases, like with "BoP", the makers attempt to nudge our willingness to "play" by tapping into the fantasy and enthusiasm that one feels while watching a good movie...like "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers". I for one prefer a "closer to reality" look that makes me feel that Im seeing things the way they where "back then"...If I play a game that looks "like the real world" (like I'm looking out the window) then when I see an "ME109" or the "White Cliff of Dover"...I feel transported back in time.

Endless detailing is clear idiotism(based on idialism?) and self-killing. There's deadline for devs\business\human mind\etc. The product must be done when it planned.
You waiting BoB from 2005-2007, you know? Now is 2010.

100x100 km is smal for you? U wanna 65000x65000km map, probably whole galaxy modelled? Far from actual reality.
Yeah, maps can be 400x400km and bigger, but goals of this project were another, sorry. It's better when game works smoothly, whithout streaming in this case. Because it made for console market initially. Birds of Prey it calls.


For sure, pop-ups,lags,etc PC-games uglies will be present in BoB, 'cos maddox team never work on hard "console" optimization ruled by Sony or Microsoft TCR\TRC-conditions.

If a game could make me believe i'm really playing in "Porco Rosso" or in "The Cockpit"... geee.
Well somehow, I think that SoW, if it looks better than WoP and is a bit moddable, yup, it will be possible.

Other way around, it will be another 10 years to wait before we can get our hands on enough power and tech to have a sim that really looks like real stuff.

No, man. It's closer. 3-4-5 years, no more.

But when it comes, all the guys will say in horus: "Whata Faaa??? I need REALISM, not da SHEEET".

It will be forever. Virtual Reality not for "pseudo"-gurmans, sorry people. It is for approximation of reality aye, that's for sure.
And finally - it's a GAME.. like your fantasy-WoW-Dream-'bout-elven\orc-gay.

You can get "simulator" on VIP- big spherical screen in aviation-school for more money, that cost home entertainment. For sure. And it will be again - only approximation of reality...


PS sorry for english =)

Well next generation of consoles will be in 3-4 years. And it will still be a little not powerfull enough for photo realism. Same for physics. So I'd say another generation more (and PC equivalent).

Big school sims do have all the mechanical stuff, but the graphics... doooo... nope, I can tell, they are all outdated.

Really to sum up my previous post which is not targeted at WoP to flame it, but to say "hey do not throw out all these graphic pictures and say Oleg, SoW better be able to do this or else" I am glad someone else took the time to create a new WW2 combat flight sim. The market does need more people in it.

But I would not want potential simulation developers to get fixated on the graphical aspect as being the most important. Just because you all say so.

Heightened realism in a Simulation is not dependent on its graphical representation but primarily on the mechanics at work behind the graphics, do you think a real life 747 or any military simulation had a requirement for good graphics as being the key part?

Thus its called a Simulation and not a game wanting to be a simulation.

Yes graphics do add immensely to the immersion but I would not think it is the "key" element to a simulation.

Ok its WW2 and we had supercomputers early (fantasy obviously) and needed a Combat simulator to train pilots, what would the military want as key training elements in its flight simulator? good AI tactics, realistic Take-offs and landings , startup by checklist? Complex FM's DM's and engine management?

Then there is the whole other aspect Mods, Multiplayer, and all the things that can be done in a mission editor ect.....ground objects and interaction.

If I liked graphics I would not be playing War In the Pacific AE, HOI3 (counters on), TOAW3 along with other simulations.

One that many may not care about as a comparison, Baldurs Gate to Dragon Age, yeah fancy graphics, yeah it has classes and story and skills but god I think its about 3 steps back , but its quite popular go figure? I couldnt even finish it.

But yes WoP will satisfy the needs of many people and I am happy that it will, but I would never want graphics to take precedence in anything labeled as a simulation. But then again I am the minority in this so I lose.

I beg to differ, If you fly stock fsx-fs9 and do not attempt to fly by the flight rules and limitations of the engines/aircraft then yes its a game. If you fly fsx-fs9 with addon aircraft, addon weather, plan the flight correctly using real routes taking into account winds/weather , fly online vatsim using real atc and flying by real aircraft limitations and flight rules and regulations as per region specific and aircraft POH/FCOM's then no its not a game but a simulation. Real World Pilots and pilots in training fly in many Online Virtual Airlines and in FS-9/FSX just so they can fly aircraft they do not get to fly in real life. Years ago there was a tutorial on flying an add-on 737 by a regular airline pilot saying that if you can do that you can do the real thing, in fact it is harder for a simmer to hone his/her skills since you cannot feel the aircraft movement and react,(a huge liabilty for visuals is no track ir) which comes as second nature like driving straight down the road and moving the wheel back and forth to stay straight down the road, you stop noticing it.

Unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence so far to support that.

Just a lot of propaganda started in response to wop terrain textures. They got caught with their pants down by W.o.P terrain. Be sure.

I would love to be wrong ....... but not hopeful of all the 'qualifiers' I have heard.

Lets see.

+100500

graphics is only "trick" for "immersion"

Yeah, will see.

I whish maddox team can make pure coool graphics (PC-looking, all in one breath), no "hoollywoodish"-style, but pure realistic, whis high-detailed landscape. Highly detailed in everything. Blaaahueeee.. (puke)

But one thing i doubt - they can't give it on 30FPS (on medium rig), upward they will lose in this competition.

Yes, graphics are immersion, but also a simulation of reality. Getting blind because of light you can fake it with lightness, but it's ugly. HDR looks better and so on.

Professional sims don't have beautifull graphics, for sure. That's because they don't have to sell it to the global public!

Of course the main object for SoW is to become the most advanced sim of WW2 flights, and that is mostly physics and FM.
But without up to date top notch graphics, the game won't sell as good as it should, because the simmers community isn't big enough for Oleg and his team to eat everyday. Otherwise there would be even more sims out there.

So SoW has to please future simmers, and the best way to achieve it is by working on every aspect of the game, graphics included. That is why e are all excited (for good or not) about WoP, because we all want SoW to be better in every domain than WoP!

I would like to remind that when Il-2 came out, it was graphically oustanding. And that also made the game's reputation. It was a very good looking and was a deep sim. Everything was over the rest.

SoW has to beat that same challenge. No?

WoP is a good test, and a good first step for Oleg and team to have a good idea of what's "do-able" in terms of graphics (even with a limited terrain and ground objects). Now all the rest has to be as good as that :) .
I also wonder what are the links between the Il-2 Birds of Prey project and Il-2 / SoW / Oleg Maddox... isn't Birds of Prey published by 1C? And isn't Oleg Maddox a producer at 1C? I'm confused! :D

Can't Oleg just give his opinion? That would help!

EDIT
I also want to add this, about hollywoodish graphics :
haze and colors, blur and HDR, god rays and other "impressive" FX and cinematographic effects can all be graphical options.
So it is best for Oleg to implement them in SoW (WoP style) and leave the possibility for each of us to tweak the result he wants (Il-2 difficulty settings style)!