I've been around for a lot lonnnger ;)

Please keep going Gaston, I've never laughed so hard about an FM girlie fight in my entire time with IL2.

Just remember, if you keep repeating untruths enough people will grow tired and leave the discussion and you can claim a "win".

It's called the "big lie", and it was invented by the Germans as well...

I actually was expecting Gaston to post the lame excuse of whatever kind. 3000m is too high because...? Speed mentioned in all the infinite number of accounts Gaston tells us he's heard someone tell who's read it somewhere on the internet is what?

FYI, a :wink: doesn't make posting nonsense any more bearable. You'd be better of asking questions.

I wasn't talking to you, and I don't care. :)

You sound like the PR guy sending the 8th or any fighter command to Germany 1943-5.. I'm sure they just loved you :grin:

JtD...
It seems like Gaston has done a few years of research into combat reports (if he claims right), maybe on a project of sorts.

Aerodynamics and models are accurate, no doubt to a certain %, but have they been verified under certain and specific conditions.
For the aircraft under question, most likely not, considering the conditions of the time. That leaves us with what... theoretical values, or 'real experiences'.

Every research into the past relies on Current Knowledge and Statistics. Gaston is the Statistics of this research.
What aerodynamic proponents are arguing are static test results, if you can call them that, and not dynamic as they quiet simply do not have the same aircraft in question.

;)

Must be the worst research I have ever seen. None of his claims stacks up and he will not tell us where in the 'research' the evidence supports his claim.

You must have missed it... :cool:
You must also clarify his claim ?

Every one of his claims have been shot down multiple times on presentation, that's a fact.

Both of you have weird ideas on how much is not known and fail to acknowledge not only how much is known but the nature of that knowledge. But then both of you live in special worlds where physics is only what you choose to understand. Nothing is true until you make the mistake of admitting it. :rolleyes:

JTD can in 2 minutes find multiple accounts of what Gaston swears there are none.
To which your answer is that you have been around longer than that.
Yeah, you really showed HIM!

Yeah, and those reports are not relevant to the envelope Gaston is talking about.. You really showed us haven't you !! ;)

A matter of fact that none of you have come up with a decent counter argument, or proof therof, beyond reasonable doubt that Gaston is talking tripe.
You all revert back to aerodynamic formulae and charts, most of which are from pilots that you wish to discredit, so where does that leave your argument.
While aerodynamics does play a significant role, most of you are not willing to remotely admit that there might be a problem with the data, in the area that is in discussion.

If I were a test pilot, I'll be crying with laughter.

K_Freddie, over the years I've brought up dozens of arguments. All of which were chosen to be ignored. Why should I bother to continue a discussion that in fact is just a monologue by someone to justify an alternate reality?

Again, why does a turn-fight at 3000m not count? Other than it not suiting the theory.