Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

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Official Fulqrum Publishing forum (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/index.php)

- IL-2 Sturmovik (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=98)

- - Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=8815)

_1SMV_Gitano

12-03-2010 02:27 PM

Hi Rambock,

taking FM from another game, just becauces it "seems" better, is definitely not the way to work. If these guys have some hard documents to backup the correctness of those FMs, you can contact them, ask for such documents and submit them to DT mail adress.

thx

ImpalerNL

12-03-2010 02:43 PM

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...b-20-10-43.jpg

Vz=26 m/s for the fw190A5 is not possible according to this source. iL2's A5 seems to be pretty accurate with Vz=15 m/s. (without mw50)

What kind of aircraft do you fly on Rambock?

KWM_Rammbock

12-03-2010 03:00 PM

It is obvious that it is not the way to work!! I am not saying that classic hangar is right, and that you are wrong for I do not know!
Again I am not asking for fms to change in such and such a way!!!
I made a comparison of two fms asking which seemed the most relevant to those who program fms for il2 planes!

My questions initially was, but I will put it in other words:

will there be modifications to flight models?

I'll compile the ch fm datas, and will ask them for the charts they based themselves onto!

KWM_Rammbock

12-03-2010 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImpalerNL (Post 202206)

According to this source it does appear that il2 vz fm for the specified aircraft is correct!

As to what aircraft I fly on, it is for the moment a Beech90F starting a b737ng TR in January!:)

EDIT : great document indeed!! but as you can see, the mass taken in account is 4000kg whereas the il2 model takes these mass in account!
[Mass]
Empty 3391.0
TakeOff 4200.0 is it the MTOW? or is it 4000kg as stated in the document?
Oil 50.0
Fuel 394.0

Hans Burger

12-04-2010 05:14 AM

In the game, FM is a combination of data in file xxxx and the process of these data by the soft itself.
Only speaking about data without speaking of what is inside the soft, IMHO, is a waste of time and could result to wrong interprétation.
For example, you mention a TakeOff value of 4200, but, are you sure that this value is used during a "virtual" flight ?

In fact, the only way to cut off this kind of discussion about FM (some of them havé started at the initial release of IL2), is that DT provides, when 4.10 will be released, rationals used for FM (of course for new/modified aircraft).

II/JG54_Emil

12-04-2010 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Burger (Post 202381)

You might be right.
The good thing is that Oleg Maddox made this sim to use RL data and not phantasy data.
He is using a metric system.

In my humble opinion this is the only way to make a simulator that is worth being named as such.

Now when he is using 4000 or 4200 as weight he took the data from somewhere and didn´t phantasize(hopefully).

The question is only from where did he take it.

KWM_Rammbock

12-04-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Burger (Post 202381)

For example, you mention a TakeOff value of 4200, but, are you sure that this value is used during a "virtual" flight ?

:shock:obviously no! it will logically decrease during flight between 4200kg to 3806kg(zero fuel weight) but if we already have a 200kg overload at take off, you will always keep those 200kg .:!:

if 4000kg is the TOW, the zero fuel weight is at 4000-394= 3606kg
200kg makes quite a huge difference in the way an aircraft behaves especially for small 4T aircrafts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Burger (Post 202381)

are you saying then that they modified the raw data to fit the game engine?

Id be realy interested to know what charts oleg has been using to build his flight models!

KG26_Alpha

12-04-2010 03:01 PM

I don't usually post in this manner but.....................

Its called game balancing.

I have missions I created from over 10 years ago and its blatantly obvious what's happened over time to the game.

RL data means nothing in IL2 as the dogfight servers whined and moaned the aircraft were "made more suitable".

Certainly the data is out there now IL2 has been opened up there no hiding it, and (in the right places) the discussion regarding this is of disbelief.

Problem

Put RL data into the game it becomes unbalanced and the whining starts again.

Solution

As before, let the masses win over reality for the sake of sales "Ace expansion pack"
Tweak patches for game balancing.

IMHO

Complete RL data will never be input into the game for all the aircraft it just wouldn't work.

II/JG54_Emil

12-04-2010 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha (Post 202437)

I don't usually post in this manner but.....................

Its called game balancing.

I have missions I created from over 10 years ago and its blatantly obvious what's happened over time to the game.

RL data means nothing in IL2 as the dogfight servers whined and moaned the aircraft were "made more suitable".

Certainly the data is out there now IL2 has been opened up there no hiding it, and (in the right places) the discussion regarding this is of disbelief.

Problem

Put RL data into the game it becomes unbalanced and the whining starts again.

I personally would prefer to fly a simulator, not a game.

Solution

As before, let the masses win over reality for the sake of sales "Ace expansion pack"
Tweak patches for game balancing.

IMHO

Complete RL data will never be input into the game for all the aircraft it just wouldn't work.

The only problem is that Oleg stated that he never balanced the game but used raw RL data only.

JAMF	12-04-2010 04:40 PM

It's a sad state of affairs, that there has to be such a thing as "balancing". No one can experience the real aircraft (unless they fly for a museum) and then they can't experience the simulation of it either.

There is already the choice between difficulty settings. What's keeping the developers (TD or 1C:Maddox) from adding a choice option between "balanced" and "realistic" data?

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