Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - A potential fix for the Aircraft visibility problems?

Official Fulqrum Publishing forum (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/index.php)

- IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=189)

- - A potential fix for the Aircraft visibility problems? (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=34989)

@ zap....

to have the "correct" field of view is a totally different topic...
as long as the devs offer different FOVs in the game, and in some of them, contacts totally disappear in mid ranges, it can and should be seen as a bug...

try 1024x768 for example, and you will see what im talking about...there is no doubt, that that is a bug....it has nothing to do with distortion, but the game just seems to forget to load one LOD model in that resolution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 474403)

knowing what your personal "normal" FoV should be in CoD is however important to determine the amount of distortion in object sizes you are creating as a result of using the "wrong FoV" (and for the purpose of this thread to determine game errors).

The "distortion" isn't in sizes as such... it is in how the object/ background/ viewpoint (as in origin of view) relate to each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 474385)

no i am not

it is the exact opposite of what you are saying. if i would be using the 70 FoV as "normal default"(with my eyes 60 cm from my 27' screen as i stated earlier), all ingame objects size shrink around 30% for me, making them much harder to spot, track or identify, THAT is a distortion !

Nooo, objects on the screen don't get bigger or smaller when you move your eyes closer to or further away from your screen

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 474385)

if in a flight simulator the purpose is presumably to see all in-game objects in their correct 1:1 sizes compared to what you would see in real life (ie the same as when looking out of a cockpit), in which case you then need to determine what this "normal" view is for your own monitor personal setup first (size monitor, and the distance you have you're eyes from it.

sounds great if everybody wanted to have their head and shoulders strapped down and locked in to one position... unfortunately people will sit at different distances from their screen. Sit too close and the peripheral (RL) vision gets affected, they may find themselves getting dizzy after a while at the screen... too far away and they might squint slightly causing headaches.

How would plan to achieve your desire and have it also suit everybody else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 474385)

right now the "normal view" (by default 70 FoV right now in CoD), is only "normal" if you have a 30' screen and sit exactly 54.356 centimeter (21.4 inch ) from it. if that same person then briefly uses the zoomed 35 FoV to scan a distant airfield or road, all in-game objects are magnified by 2x (hence much easier to see), but it does so at the cost of introducing tunnel vision. having snap views setup that are more zoomed (35 FoV) or artificially increase peripheral vision (eg the 90 FoV) are useful to briefly use to overcome some of the limitations of sitting behind a monitor in your living room rather then being in a real aircraft, but both induce significant size and object-visibility distortions

just calculate it for your own setup, and see what should be your "normal FoV" for your current setup.

Normal FoV is the default setting... change from this value and the distortion comes into play... objects aren't "magnified" by changing the FoV - "maginification" is a completely differtent occurence

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 474385)

the purpose of raising this in this thread is because only if using a correct "normal" FoV can we determine if in-game "distant object" visibility is roughly correct (compared to similar real life situations), AND if the "invisible zone" (disappearing aircraft) some players complain of is a real problem or some less serious artifact introduced by not using the right FoV.

and yes, the "disappearing dot" is a bug apparently... one which wasn't there in > il2: 1946

Quote:

Originally Posted by David198502 (Post 474818)

david,

the reason i keep mentioning the need to first set the correct "normal" FoV for your personal monitor size and home viewing setup, is that in any of these "visibility bug" discussions we need to start from a known quantity with most in-game parameters set to represent as closely as possible a similar real life situation.

since that "normal FoV" setup is slightly different for most posters here, at least we will then be comparing apples with apples

as you could see from the earlier tracks slipball posted, some people claimed to have perfectly good visibility of the aircraft on the ground 1200 meters below, but then it was found they were using the zoomed 35 view which is like strapping on some binoculars. others were still able to see the same distant aircraft in the wide view, yet some couldnt see it with a correctly set "normal FoV" for their monitor size.

ie, once we have determined how it behaves under normal visibility conditions then the nest step is to add whatever altered settings can magnify the problem so we can identify its cause more easily

Quote:

Originally Posted by David198502 (Post 474818)

try 1024x768 for example, and you will see what im talking about...there is no doubt, that that is a bug....it has nothing to do with distortion, but the game just seems to forget to load one LOD model in that resolution.

possible, i dont doubt you are seeing some aircraft disappear before your eyes (as an earlier video illustrated very well), my simple question is: is the same problem still present to the same degree when you use the "normal FoV for your personal monitor setup", and secondly is it still as noticeable at your monitor native resolution ?

with you using a non native resolution a couple of things come to mind, for ex you have significantly increased your pixel size, and it is slightly more blurry because the non-native display resolution is not as sharp and crisp. none of that might matter in the bug you mentioned, but we dont know. i just prefer comparing apples with apples, and then progress from there :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadTommy (Post 474425)

** post removed while i retest this ***

looked interesting, i could see a difference in the comparison screenshots :)

sorry zapatista, you are wrong, although i appreciate many things you brought up in this thread already...

you said:" the reason i keep mentioning the need to first set the correct "normal" FoV for your personal monitor size and home viewing setup, is that in any of these "visibility bug" discussions we need to start from a known quantity with most in-game parameters set to represent as closely as possible a similar real life situation."

and thats where i have to disagree with you, as this bug seems to be dependent on three different settings:

resolution
FOV
model details

this bug doesnt give a rats ... about "correct" FOV.
you can simply recreate it:

use a resolution of 1024x768
+ FOV 90°
+ medium model details

Not sure I can use a 'normal' FOV considering I only use the TrackIR 6DOF to change FOV :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapatista (Post 469654)

some possible solutions discussed in previous years:
- make all the smaller LoD models much darker (or a bright blue ?) so they stand out more (instead of sing a paint scheme that aims to represent the real color of the object it represents)
- give the smaller LoD models "3D volume" by using something like bump mapping, so they stand out more against the scenery background
- paint the smaller most distant LoD models in "non realistic" colors so they stand out more (or use some highlighting method around the edge of the shape, as the OP suggests)
- instead of focusing on having distant very small LoD models maintaining the shape of the aircraft they represent (which is done very poorly anyway because our smallest pixels arnt small enough to give that level of detail), use instead a "blob" or fixed larger number of black/grey pixels of some shape that makes the object stand out a bit more and overcome the problem we have of using a 2D screen. once you come closer to it, or use the zoom function, the larger LoD models would still keep the shape of the object of course.

Good proposals all of them. The last one is probably the easiest one to do (like they do in RoF?). It may not be "realistic" - but neither is spotting a few pixels above a landscape of the same "color" :) I have a couple of hundred hours IRL stick time at least, and aircraft in the air are actually easier to spot than many may think, if you manage to spot them first at least ;)

I HAD THIS PROBLEM REAL BAD BETWEEN 1 AND 2 KM PLAENS WER TOTALLY INVISIBLE

SOLVED IT SETTING TEXTURES TO ORIGINAL AND MODELS TO HIGH WHICH I CAN EVEN RUN IN MY POOR SYSTEM

sorry about the caps but this solved it for me so should solve it for the rest

Quote:

Originally Posted by raaaid (Post 475367)

i assume you use native resolution?

So... whats the fix now? I run monitor-native resolution 1920*1080, Textures original and Models High and I've got massive problems :(