It is not a bizarre contradiction in aerodynamics. ;)

It is a general trend in aircraft performance. You have stumbled across the reason why designers concentrated on high speed instead of low speed performance.

Ah yes, he seems to be slightly confusing again. What I think he's trying to say is that a 109 turns better than a Spitfire at higher speeds - which is no news and pretty obvious, but it also has nothing to do with sustained turn times comparsions.

I'd like to see a Hurricane in the game that has better sustained turn than a Spitfire AND a 109. What we have got now is:

1 Spitfire
2 109
3 Hurricane

Let me add in game speed, climb and dive to that Robo :D

1. 109
2. Spitfire
3. Hurricane

1. 109
2. Spitfire
3. Hurricane

1. 109
2. Spitfire
3. Hurricane

.....still willing to take the Hun on :)

Allow me to ask again, what I'm reading in that odd sentance is;
The spitfire has an advantage, unless it tries to use it.

it roughly translates in Crumpp parlance to:

The Spitfire has an advantage until it is matched against anything German and I produce the graph to prove it'

takes a little time to learn Crumpp but it becomes reasonably predictable.

No, it says the Spitfire at its best turn performance velocity beats the 109 at its best turn performance velocity. According to these figures, the 109 cannot outturn a Spitfire in a sustained turning fight at sea level unless the Spitfire lets it happen, however, the Spitfire can outturn the 109 in said scenario no matter what the 109 does.

Great summary. :) I guess that's the way he put it, but it boils down to the statement that the faster plane generally holds the advantage. This remains true in turnfights. The 109 has the choice to maintain the higher airspeed at a lower corner velocity, the Spitfire has the choice to maintain a higher corner velocity at a lower airspeed, so the 109 can maintain the initiative.

It should be noted that on Crumpps chart the 109 has a level speed advantage of ~18 knots, however representative that is for a BoB scenario.

Feel free to calculate it yourselves!!

The performance is the sustained envelope. It is just over the entire envelope both aircraft can sustain instead of just choosing one single point.


So it is everything to do with sustained turn time comparisions as it IS A SUSTAINED TURN TIME COMPARISION under the same condition of flight. At the same altitude and airspeed, that is how the relative performance will play out.


You do understand the Spitfire and BF-109 do not achieve their best turn performance under the same conditions of flight?

It was manufacturer's data for each type.

There is a wide range of data available on both types. Choose what you want.....

Do the math...it does not lie.