Are you using manual pitch? I just had a spit 2 outclimb me at 7000 metres. Effortlessly.

In the E4 I'm always on auto pitch (obviously you do the initial fiddle to make it work right) - oil rads always 75% open - radiator handle 180 degrees from wide open (straight down), and I'm always wide open using WEP. I think there's a 30 second window where you can't use it, then 2 minutes with it on - repeat.

To get the advantage against the Rotol or IIa, assuming someone is on your 6 somewhere between 750m behind you CO-E, you have to stall climb. If you grab a buddy in a Rotol, for instance, and climb out to where you are in a proficient climb, between 275-300kph the Rotol will just climb up to you and kill you. But if you point the nose up another, a guess here, 10 degrees to where you are climbing at a measly 190-200kph, the only thing he can do is get directly below you. If they point the nose up to try to match, again I'm assuming CO-E to begin with, they almost stop dead in their tracks. Once they are directly below you, limbering along like you are, then spiral climb in a stall. This will slow em down even more as they will either have turn with you or you obviously get a nice shot at them when they appear in front and below you.

Do that for about 5 minutes and you'll be able to drop down and take a shot. From then on they have to point their nose down to gain some E to out turn and avoid you. Then next thing you know, it's YoYo city where they are always 1500-2000m below you. The hard part is not following them down as they go lower and lower.

Give it a go.

Can confirm superior performance of a Spit IIa against my E3/B @ 6k as well. :confused:

Regards.

I was most assuredly using wep.

I was at 200 km/h indicated on the dot.

Do you have a track? It's like we're playing a completely different game. This guy started out below me by about 500-1000m and climbed up into me like it was nothing. It wasn't a zoom on his part either.

Yeah I do this all the time to Spitfires Mk I and Hurricanes but it doesn't work against the MkIIa.

Seriously. I did what you described almost verbatim.

Doggles, what he means (probably) is that you must minimize your horizontal move as much as possible. As the other plane is faster, it will close the distance but find itself right under you. From that position it is impossible to raise its nose to get a gun solution on you, neither can he overshoot you because he will place himself directly under your guns.

It works nicely.

~S~

beware of some nasty (non CoD) rocket powered Hurri and spits or you'd get badly surprised !

Even when flying red I tend to get annoyed with the Spit-2 as ATM. I personally won't fly it. when I do get a kill or successfully evade a AC that has the advantage, I like to know it was me not the AC . Also when chasing after an opponents 6 and you get passed by the quicker 2 and he gets your chance at a kill, AHHHH frustrating. Hopefully FM fixes will put an end to the Demonization of this beautiful AC.

I also don´t fly the Spit IIa anymore, since it is just too easy and your last remaining foe is a High-G Blackout. I fly for the challenge and not easy kills, therefore I switched back to Spit Ia and ROTOL very quickly. I can´t really believe how one can produce a simulation with relatively questionable FLight and perfomance models, when these mdoels are so off historic reality.

the IIa shld be available only to new pilots that want to test themself online.

The whole idea of an easy mount is a good one. But when I see squads and old aces flying that model it makes me desesperate of the whole com. :evil:

Note : you can't B&Z some of them. they are so much faster (some not all :() !

Good idea if you could get it to work. Like a pass key from server moderators maybe.

There has been some discussion here on "opportune warping". Be advised the Memboost utility (also discussed here) causes a warp apparent to other players when it does its thing.

It is 5 airplanes, 5 frigging airplanes!!!!

C'mon guys, get over it!!!!

1 vs 1 is bad news I agree. So, don't!
I got killed a lot of times in a Spit II vs three Bf109.
Yesterday, I think I shot 2-3 SpitII flying solo in my Bf109.

There is nothing more, nothing less.

And so many posts for 5 planes (which get vulched mercilesly 90% of the time before take off) it not worth it!

my 2cents...

When I get to play there are at most 15 to 20 players and that drops of to as low as 10. With 5 Spit 2s( I thought it was 4) thats a large enough number of Superior AC to make a battle one sided.

At this map, with 10 players there is no battle.
It is rather "Vol de nuit" ("Night flight?") of St.Exupery...

If you want to dogfight then you should find either a server with more players or a smaller map. I always check the number of online players before entering the game by looking at the ATAG signatures like below:
http://en.stats4game.com/image/216.5...95-default.png


If you want to complain guys, you can always find a reason.
So turn the page and play...


PS. And be happy that we (Bf109) do not to live with the 20min fuel limit above England like the real Luftwaffe pilots had ;)

You hve just been granted as an expert in French language.

"Vol de Nuit" (Night flight - a portion of journey btw Paris and Dackard during the early 30's aboard a Breguet XIV of the Aeropostale (postal air service)with the crossing of the Pyrénées chain of moutains (I might be wrong on the type))
and
"Vol de guerre" (War flight - A reconnaissance mission over the battle field at high alt in a Bloch reco plane during the 1940 foney war)

are two great books to read from ST. Exupery

which describe very long and very lonely flights....

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...pitIIaJu87.png


He passed so fast he couldn't shoot then I raised my nose and open fired, he spun out and the rest is history... :-P

The SpitIIa is a great plane but doesnt make you a good pilot.

You should have written: "he turned hard to avoid me but, he was a noob, he initiated a left turn" ;)

Nice one!

:D

It is hilarious. I was online on Sunday and it was about 20 vs 20. 14, yes 14, of the 109's were E4's and 4 were E3's. Only 2 E1's. Funny, I don't remember seeing any historical accuracy complaints about that.

For the record I have not read of one incident from WW2 where the 109 could hang on 45 degrees from CO-e and watch the Spitfire fall away helplessly. In actual fact the opposite is more likely true given that the standard escape for a Spitfire was a steep climbing turn.

I trust therefore that we won't hear any complaints when you can no longer use this tactic.

It's been an education. Just flew an hour on the ATAG server -- more changes! Nasty surprises over both sides' airfields -- and historical! :)

What changes ???

I don't want to spoil anyone's surprise by divulging that information over the 'net -- that would be unfair. Log in and you'll find both chat and Teamspeak buzzing about it, developing new tactics in response. It took me by surprise as well since I'm not party to the inner workings of the ATAG server. It's good stuff for both sides, but very challenging.

Gunnery settings on the defiants are rediculous. I lag rolled over them at 400KMH and was dead in 10 seconds... Then my wingman attacked and was killed in the same amount of time...

The defiant was pulled out because it was a failure, otherwise they would have just made large aircraft with lots of turrets... So to get raped by 2 daffies on a sunday stroll is more than annoying.

This has happened many times before?

Though I dont think the "exploit" in vogue at the moment is historically accurate there was concern at the time about the 109E and F's ability to Climb at a steeper angle than the Spitfire as AVIA 6/13805 shows:

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7168/clbsmall.jpg

Pg 4 ..... Conclusion
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4079/clbsmall3.jpg

There are a Total of 7 pages in the report .. the others are mainly Maths and graphs.

+1
The gunners of the Defiants are snippers c'mmon, this is like the turret gunners of the Mitchells in IL2... :(


Apart from that, GREAT FUN :D

~S~

PS. IvanK thanks for the informative scans!

Interesting. These are calculations based on data though? Rather than flight tests? It was normal to explore everything possible during this war though - no stones unturned.

I am going by accounts from pilots which I have read and both sides are consistent, though of course the dead men do not tell their stories.

Interesting, I guessed it would do if you used the 'defrag memory' option but not during its routine cleaning. Mine does that every 60 seconds and I haven't been told I'm warping but I'll get the guys to watch out for it.

This is an excellent site for anyone who may not have visited it. Apart from data and technical info, the Pilots notes are well worth reading to give you a feel of how the Spits compared to the Bf109 in combat.


http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

10 seconds is quite a long time. I haven't flown against the Defiants but did you know that is a four gun rotating rear/upward facing turret which shredded the 109s before they learned to attack it from the front? (no front guns on the Defiant) It wasn't the one-gun limited traverse of the He111 etc.

It was pulled out once the 109s avoided the rear quarter and knocked them down from the forward quarter.

Agreed. NASTY snipers!!!!! Not so good on frontal or lower approaches, though. Speaking of Snipers, there was one very accomplished Rotol pilot warning the rest of us about the "sh|t storm" he ignited when he strafed a Blue airfield......

Yes more airfield activity with defensive sweeps. I heard a radio warning of a group of Defiants over the English coast and thought it may be a good way to rack up some easy kills. I got involved in action on the way and I never got there. Probably just as well by the sounds of it. Sounds like a flying firring squad. :grin:

It won't be long before you've figured out a way to lay waste on 'em -- I'd lay money on it! LOL

But it sounds like you're having fun.....and for us that means "mission accomplished"! :-P

I like this bit

"The comparable 5 minute engine limitations were; 1.30 ata/2400 rpm for the Me 109 E-1, 3 and 4, and +12 lbs/3000 rpm for the Spitfire Mk I"

Try 12lbs @ 3000rpm in the Spit and see if you can last 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes ;)

It's an important read though, for all who are interested in this sim being a sim.

Can you even get the CloD Spitfires up to 12lbs?

The LW Pilot entries are also very interesting (e.g, the introduction of Auto PP and their reaction) but this one caught my attention:-

The Spitfire I had reached maturity by the outset of the Battle of Britain and began to be replaced by the Spitfire II in August. This improved variant first entered service with No. 611 Squadron, 135 eventually equipping over a third of the Spitfire squadrons by the end of the Battle. Oberleutnant Ulrich Steinhilper of III/JG 52 flew a Me 109 E-1, armed with 4 MG 17 machine guns, until 15 September 1940, whereupon he received a cannon equipped Me 109 E-4. 136 A month later he wrote home:

The British have, in part, a new engine in their Spitfires and our Me can hardly keep up with it. We have also made improvements and have also some new engines, but there is no more talk of absolute superiority. The other day (12 October) we tangled with these newer Spitfires and had three losses against one success. I got into deep trouble myself and my Rottenhund (Sigi Voss) was shot down. I ended up against two Spitfires with all weapons jammed. There was no alternative but to get the hell out of it. 137

Yes the pilot accounts are overwhelmingly in agreement with each other from both sides, and with the flight testing. The only one that doesn't agree is Molders following his test flight, and that's because he flew a 2 stage prop Spitfire without the 100 octane fuel extra boost.


Unfortunately not at the moment. Still stuck on 6.25 :(

Positive changes IMHO. For the first time flying ATAG I fought over France against 4 British fighters. It seems it reduced the pressure of red flying/fighting (and most of the times dying) over England. It gives a dynamic pace to the server as well. I have read something about Defiants stating that LW 109's had terrible losses till they figured out the rules of engagement against them (never engage their 6).

Regards.

By the way gents, with the settings I posted in the previous pages, I can now fly three missions on the server (approx 10kils) for two hours before needing to voluntarily restart CoD because of the memory leak bug :)
(before, I had to restart after every flown mission)

=> I mean the settings except the resolution...
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/No_Leak.jpg

Except for the lack of grass which makes take off and landing very sad looking, I have not felt any decrease in graphics quality while dogfighting (I do not spend too much time looking at the ground details though so I am not an expert).
What is more important, I have no longer fps drops when dogfithting low above towns with many aiplanes around (before I had drops down to 18fps).
And just to show the fps and graphics quality with MeshShowLod=1:
(above the city, low, with many planes (behind me...)
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/This_is_War.jpg


~S~

OMG are they really putting this Spit Mk+++ with teraboost case forward again ? !!!

Isn't that s*** mkIIa enough ?!!

I am starting to believe that Spit is a powerful drug. What we need here is a couple of DEA agents not Mods !

Yes, I use similar settings and find them good. Whilst the CPU usage seems to go up with MeshShowLod it was so low to start with that I notice little difference.

Grathos- what program is open on the left side of your screen?
It looks very interesting

nvidia Inspector. Good for custom profiles with more options than the standard nvidia Control Panel.

Jimbop- i actually meant the other side of the screen. It looks like a configurable control interface.

Jimbob, the left side! {you know, the one where the thumb is on the right :D :D}

It is Touchbuddy, awesome freeware tool :) http://www.touch-buddy.com/ sometimes their server is down, you may have to wait and re-try.
Originaly made to use on a second touchscreen you may connect to your PC, I chose the easy way (window besides my CoD).
I use it mainly in order to control the complex bomb setting modes when flying bombers although the BAIL OUT key has seen the most usage to date...

http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/ENStouchbuddy.jpg

but you can do very complex setups:
http://www.mikesteven.pwp.blueyonder...BSTB_2m_01.jpg

~S~

Yeah, the other right… Wouldn’t you love me on your squad! One beer too many (or few) I think. Glad you replied though, looks like an interesting tool. Will look it up when I get back.

335th_GRAthos, I noticed one of your chats on ATAG yesterday and unless I misread (again) you mentioned modifying a config file edit that enabled you to see better at distance. Unfortunately I CTD’d at that stage. Was this the MeshShowLod edit or something else?

Hi Jimbop, sorry no surprises here, it was the MeshShowLod edit.
Actually, it does not help me see far but stops the "vanishing moment" when the incoming dot disappears before turning into a real shape airplane.


~S~

Thanks Grathos- i'll have to look it up and see if i can tailor it to my wishes. I'd love to be able to create sliders for fuel mixture, flaps etc- i cant afford a throttle quadrant.

Tonight I had some great time on the ATAG server! First escaped from 2 hurris that almost got me killed in a low level dogfight over england. Then found robtek in the TS chat room and we had a really good flight! Lots of tactic involved and we managed to down a spitfire after a good 5 minutes or more of dogfighting (well, tbh he downed himself, but still we shared points on the kill). I didn't even get a full 1.00 score at the end of the game, but still was happier than many other times! :)

Great to read your post, Nunce. Glad you don't get too hung up on the stats kills -- it's the quality of the time you've spent on the server that really counts. :grin:

This is a tip from Little D that he shared with over at the ATAG forum: turn your in-game menu setting for Anti-Aliasing to "OFF". Many of us have it set to x2 (for what good it does:rolleyes: ). Turning it off did this for me and a few others that tried it:

1) Can now spot enemy/friendly bomber formations from a reasonable medium-distance at high monitor resolution (mine: 1920 x 1200 native). Until now I'd been running lower monitor res just to be able to actually SEE anything before it was on top of you. The same applies for single aircraft contacts.

2) LOD doesn't temporarily "disappear" when closing on an aircraft. I did the MeshLodShow=1 in conf.ini which worked, but paid a price in terms of slower frame rates and stuttering. Leaving it at "0" and turning off anti aliasing in-game didn't affect the frame rates. I'm just happy to run at high res. low res cockpits are ugly, but high res tracers are uglier! LOL

Thanks again to Little D for this easy-to-try tip.

Reference link:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...tting-contacts

Big Wing!
 

I would like to organize a 'big wing' on ATAG for tomorrow (Tuesday, Dec 13th)!

Time: 8:30pm EST (Toronto time).

Purpose of the exercise? To practice formation flying in a hostile combat environment and wingman tactics. Stay with your leader!

Very often a group of RAF planes will get together and fly out towards the enemy, but whenever combat is joined it all goes belly up. One of the most successful flights I ever had was when a group of us, 6 or so planes, managed to stay together throughout engagements and help each other.

So! With that in mind, let's arrange some group operations! If you'd like to participate, join me on the ATAG teamspeak server. We'll use a separate Flight channel to make sure we don't cross comms with others who don't want to participate.

Also, if you know you'd like to participate, shoot me a PM so I can get a sense of the numbers. Also, send me your preferred aircraft identification (A, B, C, etc.) so we can arrange all that ahead of time if possible.

Hope to see you tomorrow night!


Wolverine

Thanks for the tip ATAG_Snapper & Little D, will try it out.

Jimbop, where were you tonight????? :D

2min ago...
Anybody remembers where the mechanic put that fire extinguisher?????
At least I always make it back to France one way, or another (=swimming)
http://grathos.de/temp/CoD/Burning.jpg


~S~

+1 This works!! Thanks for bringing this up Snapper.

Ouch, looks like it was a fun landing! I was at work unfortunately... I'm down under which is bad for server timings (except for weekends) but pretty good for everything else!

Just checked the ATAG Stats, almost 1'200 unique nicks ... :-)

and only one Alambash ;)

rofl !!!!!!!!

Technically, shouldn't Alambash's 'Air Kills' be 'Ground Kills' ;)

Yeah what a knob

alambash spawns 87 kills 389

We're hosting an event this weekend. Should be a good time.

See here: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...t-this-Weekend!

Almost finished work for the swing, will be back home for a whole 3 weeks as of tomorrow, look forward to flying with you all again, seems like an age since I have sat down at the comp for some quality nerd time!

Craig

Had a great time tonight on ATAG public and in the bomber night event this weekend. Keep up the good work!

I got online for the first time the other night. This is a fun server. :)

Sure is! Get teamspeak and it's even better.

I was in TS. I could hear the other guys talking just fine. I lurked mostly, trying to get a feel for how things work around here. The few times I did speak up, nobody responded, so I think they must not have been able to hear me... Not sure why. Everything works okay and sounds okay when I test it in TS setup.

And I didn't figure out how to type ingame chat until after I logged off. Whoops.

Good form. Do a mic check as soon as you join - just ask if they can hear you.

Welcome to the world of on-line air combat. You'll never go back. :)

As jimbob says, just ask if they can hear you. Also don't be shy to ask to fly with other guys or just jump in alongside them. Working together is where a lot of the enjoyment comes from. You'll hear it going on on TS. Just make a casual arrangement with anyone there, they're all good guys, and maybe think about joining a Squad when you feel more comfortable.

Sorry to keep brining it up but its definatley that train. Do we know which model it is? Is that a custom train setup or one of the pre made ones?

Snapped this just South of Phien.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...arkenergy4.png

Hi Farber,

Forgot about this one. I'll try changing to a different model of train when I get back. I'm on 2 cans and a string atm, still home home for xmas.

Sorry!

I have exact the same with my ATI 11.9 catalyst, but only on the german train, UK train seems good.

The train has been changed to another model. Hopefully all you ATI guys won't get sucked into the black hole anymore :)

Nope, its back... Maybe the track is the problem? :(

Looks the other way and says "ATI is your problem" :D

Hopefully we get some sort of graphical update soon.

In other news, some real stats :) http://216.52.143.205:2012/ATAGStats/ATAGStatsV1.html

Excellent addition, many thanks!

Ok stats up and running for both servers.. Can be seen scrolling down here: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/content.php

Yes, yes it is :cry:

However, I was speaking to watchman and the new map didnt come on until the server restart, so it might be fix as I think my post was before the restart. Lets find out :-P


EDITED: Train is ok now! Thanks! Can you tell us which train it was?

I dont see a black graphic bug as well anymore, seems good now.

Too bad, now I need to look closer where the german train is.....:lol:

Hey dudes, quick question!

What is the current status of skins on the Atag server?

I am fed up with my yellow nosed 109s :(

New to the BF but I use the Skin without the yellow nose in the plane options menu.

I see this skin (no yellow nose) in game but wondering if that is the skin other players see, they should do because its an optional game skin not a custom one?

I use one of those as well but everyone see the default yellow nose :(

Bum! Didn't know that Krupi..........don't understand why either, the optional game skins are pretty much the same file size.

Not all of them are mate..

Some are a stupidly big as peeps dont design them with size in mind, this was helping to cause major lag hence why they were taking off..

You can see your skin but others cant afaik

I think see means the other "Default" skins that are available but the ATAG server does not allow them :(

I spotted a strange contact the other day, initially thought it to be a swarm of bombers ... :o

An.............."AIRSHIP"!!!!!!!

lol... Seen them once or twice. Always a laugh and at least you don't have to waste bullets! Come to think of it, if you shoot it down does it count as an air or ground kill?

Good deal. This was the old train:

Krupi I would very much like to be able to use the skins that came with the game as well. I am unsure if it is possible to allow skins but with limitations. I sure would like to get my White Nose ZG26 skin in use again. That is the one that came with the game.

I posted about that problem here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...6&postcount=95

I would love nothing more than to have, at the very least, all the default skins available :(

was the custom skin use a issue? I cant remember if I had any.....:confused:

Suggestion
 

Can someone who edits the mission for ATAG please edit the rear airfields near London to allow the selection of squadron? I've often wanted to take off from Maidstone, but have passed up on this because I can't select my squadron code.

It would be greatly appreciated!


Thanks

+1

+1

Specifically for ACG:

RAF Croydon requires No.1(c) RCAF. Hurricane Rotol
RAF Gravesend requires No.501 County of Gloucester. Hurricane Rotol
RAF Kenley requires No.64. Spitfire Ia (preferably IIa as an option)

I don't understand some of the squadron postings, they are flying the wrong types from the wrong airfields, but I don't care as long as these 3 are set up :) And No.56, I'm sure they'd like to fly from their historical drome.

thanks

PS. Why is the Spitfire IIa removed? (so I am told) If you are doing this then also put a percentage limit on the E3's and E4's. Every time I fly there are 20 LW and only maybe a single E1 flying, most are E4's. They should be about 40% E1 and 25% E4.

They should work now.

It didn't used to be as bad as it did. Then the latest official patch came out and made skins terrible online :(

It's a different mission all together, even though many of the airfields carry the same plane types. There are no E4's though. There will be a rotation soon (including a revised version of the old map) that will carry the old E4/limited spitIIa planeset. I may limit the E3/fighter variants, depending on the outcome here.

Question - when you do fly on this mission, do you get radar calls if you are in a fighter? The AI bombers remain, but I'm testing something and may have actually figured out what produces the Radar. (a combination of things)

So please let me know if you are in a single seat fighter if you get the normal radar calls or not. If you're in a bomber, getting contacts from your AI gunners is normal - so those don't count.

Thanks.

Hello all,

Over the last couple of months I’ve been enjoying flying on the ATAG server, which is really my favourite server for this game. Although there are still some game related issues with launcher crashes and certain flight characteristics of certain planes that are not corresponding with what I’ve read in most recently (let’s say the last 10 years) published memoirs and books regarding planes like the Messerschmitt Bf109 on the German side and the Spitfire and Hurricane it is still good fun flying the game. (I won’t go into what I think should be or shouldn’t changed in this post since there are other treads about that on the forums where people can give their, sometimes poorly based, opinion about this).

I would like to give my two cents regarding limiting the Bf109E-4 on the server and allowing mainly the E-1 to be used. Which, as the table below shows would not be correct. (I also like to state that apart from the, now poorly working, automated pitch on the 109E-4 the only difference is the canopy, which doesn’t have a large impact on flying, the only difference between the two subtypes of the Emil is the armament) The E-4, and the E-3 slightly less so, packs a far greater punch compared to the E-1 in the gun department with the MG17 being replaced by the MG FF (in the E-3) and the MG FF/M (in the E-4) making it a much more effective fighter. This is probably the reason why most people that fly fighters on the German side prefer the E-3/E-4 compared to the E-1.

Of course it annoying to get shot down by one of these cannon armed 109’s and therefore wanting to limit them.(like limiting the number of Spitfire MK II which is annoying to fly against, to say the least, for a German fighter pilot in the game. A good case can be made for limiting the number of Spitfire MK II’s when one looks at historical numbers in the actual Battle of Britain).

If the aim of the server is to give a somewhat historical planeset I don’t think severely limiting the number of cannon armed is a good one. Since a lot of documentation of the Luftwaffe was destroyed it will be impossible to find out what the exact numbers of every subtype of 109E that fought in the Battle of Britain was. There are however a number of Geschwader which documents have survived. I only have the books by Jochen Prien on JG3 (all 3 Gruppen that flew in the Battle of Britain) and JG53 that provide numbers on the losses sustained by these units during the Battle of Britain (Period taken 10 July- 31 October 1940). Both Geschwader operated the 109E in this period.

I made a list of the losses of each Geschwader (In both damaged, written off in France and shot down over England/Channel) in the period stated above per subtype of the 109E.

I./ JG3
Bf 109 E-1 #A/C lost 12 (percentage 36 )
Bf 109 E-3 #A/C lost 2(percentage 6 )
Bf 109 E-4 #A/C lost 18(percentage 54 )
Bf 109 E-7#A/C lost 1(percentage 3 )


II./JG 3
Bf 109 E-1 #A/C lost 16(percentage 37 )
Bf 109 E-3#A/C lost 1(percentage 2 )
Bf 109 E-4 #A/C lost 26(percentage 60 )
Bf 109 E-7#A/C lost 0(percentage 0 )



III./JG 3
Bf 109 E-1 #A/C lost 13(percentage 32 )
Bf 109 E-3 #A/C lost 0(percentage 0 )
Bf 109 E-4 #A/C lost 27(percentage 68 )
Bf 109 E-7 #A/C lost 0(percentage 0 )


JG53
Bf 109 E-1 #A/C lost 44(percentage 38 )
Bf 109 E-3 #A/C lost 0(percentage 0 )
Bf109 E-4 #A/C lost 69(percentage 59 )
Bf109 E-7 #A/C lost 4(percentage 3 )


As we can see from the tables above it is clear that although the 109E-1 still was a substantial part of the Luftwaffe inventory during the Battle of Britain the majority of planes in use by these units* was the E-4. I therefore have to say that limiting the number of e-4’s, or e-3’s, would not be a good to limit the number of the cannon armed 109’s on ATAG.

*Both JG3 and JG53 were not privileged units in that they received the latest equipment first and can be considered as ‘normal’ units in respect of converting to the latest plane types.

Note in all the books I checked, In October 1940 the E-1 appears in very limited number and has been largely replaced by losses of 109 E-4’s.
It is also safe to assume that lost 109e-1’s were replaced by 109e-4’s since the E-1 was phased out as the Battle of Britain went on.

Maybe someone that has the Jagdfliegerverbande series by Prien or the JG27 and JG77 by the same author could provide numbers of the losses in the Battle of Britain period by these units in the manner I have done above.

Regards

Thijs

If that's because of the Jabo capabilities (B version) I can understand (not agree :P) that regarding other LW options and also because the RAF doesn't have fighters with the ability of carrying bombs, otherwise is nonsense IMHO.

I am not bitching here, cause my main ride already is the E1. Only use E3/B for blowing up stuff.

Regards.

It continually mystifies me why there's a pervading fear of cannons amongst Allied pilots.

I can understand it being a holdover from il2 where the DMs were simplified and FW190 aces could de-wing an aircraft in the blink of an eye, but the DMs in clod are much better. Machine guns are still very very effective, and will only become more effective as the silly bugs are fixed (like no fuel tank explosion damage :rolleyes: )