Here it is... the Teana Open!

[Lord Ludwig]

First a warning: I know I'm crazy, so there's no need to be rude and tell me to my face

As some of you know, time ago I posted a topic about each unit fighting it out against the others in a tennis-tournament style competition. The post got some very interesting responses, and so I went to draw an actual "grand slam2 tournament for our beloved KBAP units.

A few words about how it works:

1) I only used those units that can be bought. No Book of evil, no angelic guard, no adult gobots, above all no ancient phoenix (a very strong contender for the championship)
2) rather than picking at random I extended the seeding system to all 96 placing them according to a ranking based on a) leadership b) cost c) health
3) just as happened years ago in one specific tournament (Key Biscayne) having 96 competitors means the 32 highest seeded get a bye for the first round
4) I did not calculate every uncertain fight to the last detail. So my scoring system, based again on the "best out of 5 sets" in tennis reads: a) 3-0 a clear victory, no doubts for me (which is not to say I may not have overlooked something) b) 3-1 I am pretty sure but there is room for some doubt c) 3-2 a very close fight, deeper analysis by experts would be welcome d) when a T appears, it means win through "tie-break".
5) So what is a tie-break? My problem was, what happens when a fight is to be considered undecided from here to eternity, when A can outrun B but not kill him from a distance (think giant vs forest fairy)? One option was to eliminate both opponents, another to toss a coin. In the end, just as in tennis a tie-break reproduces the essentials of a match - alternate serve, two points ahead needed to win - in a smaller context, I decided to imagine our two competitors secluded in a grid of only 7 hexes, where no running away is possible.

So any comments are welcome (in the spirit of the game, no need to tell me this does not actually learn us anything new or useful about the campaign) - feel free to correct me if you think I misjudged the outcome of some fights.

Here we go with the top half of the draw, first round


Black Dragon (1) – bye
Decaying Zombie – Priest 1-3
Black Unicorn – Peasant 3-0
bye – Assassin (32)
Ent (17) – bye
Hyena – Elf 0-3
Griffin – Miner 3-0
bye – Alchemist (16)
Ancient Ent (9) – bye
Snake – Gorgul 0-3
Beholder – Venomous Spider 3-0
bye – Archmage (24)
Shaman (25) – bye
Devilfish – Guard Droid 0-3
Bear – Marauder 3-0
bye – Bone Dragon (

Giant (5) – bye
Berserker – Guardsman 0-3
Veteran Orc – Lake Dragonfly 3-0T
bye – Ancient Vampire (2
Cannoneer (21) – bye
Skeleton Archer – Catapult 0-3
Vampire – Wolf 3-0
bye – Royal Thorn (12)
Executioner (13) – bye
Swamp Snake – Dwarf 0-3
Inquisitor – Cave Spider 3-0
bye – Chosha (20)
Knight (29) – bye
Thorn Warrior – Hayterant 0-3
Sea Dog – Swordsman 3-0
bye – Green Dragon (4)

[pavned]

Any chance you could post the results of your conforntation in an excel file format so we can see how the match-up went?

Would like to see how you calculate the results of those matches.

As for units, is it a 1 on 1 or leadership base?

Cause I really don't see the need for a tournament with 96 draws when there's no chance a unit of lower levels can match-up againts level 5 units!

I do love the idea tough!

Writting something about that on the board

[Lord Ludwig]

Originally Posted by pavned

As for units, is it a 1 on 1 or leadership base?

Cause I really don't see the need for a tournament with 96 draws when there's no chance a unit of lower levels can match-up against level 5 units!

It's 1 vs 1, and I know very well it's mostly pointless, but that's just the spirit of it! As for lvl1-4 being defenseless against all lvl 5 don't be too sure about it

Obviously, if you like the idea, feel free to do something similar with stacks based on leadership or gold or whatever, say as many as 50k leadership will get you regardless of gold, or instead how many 100k gold get regardless of leadership. However, the unit that's, well, going to win in 1 vs 1 is, I think, even more clearly the winner in many vs many.

I am not very good with excel alas, and as for calculations, I did them - and approximately at that - only when the result seemed somewhat uncertain to me.

[Lord Ludwig]

And here is the bottom half of round 1

Red Dragon (3) – bye
Scoffer Imp – Furious Goblin 3-0
Polar Bear – Thorn Hunter 3-2
bye – Demoness (30)
Paladin (19) – bye
Gobot – Druid 0-3
Ancient Bear – Pirate 3-0
bye – Royal Griffin (14)
Ogre (11) –bye
Fire Spider – Ghost 0-3
Gorguana – Undead Spider 3-0
bye – Demonologist (22)
Evil Beholder (27) – bye
Forest Fairy – Foreman 0-3
Werewolf Elf – Barbarian 3-0
bye – Archdemon (6)

Cyclops (7) – bye
Goblin – Royal Snake 3-1 retconned to 0-3
Unicorn – Fire Dragonfly 3-0
bye – Horseman (26)
Necromancer (23) – bye
Cursed Ghost – Skeleton 3-0
Orc – Zombie 3-0
bye – Troll (10)
Demon (15) – bye
Dryad – Repair Droid 0-3
Cerberus – Robber 3-0
bye – Brontor (1
Black Knight (31) – bye
Lake Fairy – Hunter 0-3
Bowman – Imp 2-3
bye – T-Rex (2)

Not a lot of tight fights in the first round. The priest should beat the decaying zombie thanks to ranged attacks+holy damage, the veteran orc probably chases fruitlessly after the lake dragonfly but wins hands down in the restricted grid (tie-break), the sea dog has an overall edge on the swordsman. In the bottom half it's a close call between the polar bear and the thorn hunter. The TH is faster and has ranged attack but does abysmal damage, one single hit from the PB means game over. It depends on the grid of course, but I guess the PB will manage to corner the TH and smash it. Close call also between the Imp and the bowman. Also here it depends on the grid, the bigger it is the better the chances of the bowman but my bet is on an average grid the imp closes distance and wins thanks to his no retaliation attack. Last but not least, the very useful (early on in the campaign) royal snake goes down, IMHO, to the goblin, who can keep distance and attack from range.

[pavned]

Goblin win 3 1 against Royal Snake?

How come?

It must be a type, there's no way 1 goblin can kill 1 Royal Snake. The RS can get to the Goblin in 2 turns with his higher initiative and his special attack from afar.

That's max 12 (2 maxed critical attack by Golbin --> 4 x 1,5 x 2 - 12)

The RS got 64 health, menaing he still got 52 health when he start biting out at 6-10 on a the Goblin with his 26 health plus there's chances of poisoning him.

Even if the goblin go for the run-away for 2 hex then throw axes at the RS (he got speed of 3), the higher initiative of the RS means he'll play last and can insure to approach the Goblin in a way that he'll eventualy trapped him. Plus the 2 hex attack of the RS means he'll manage to get a piece of the Goblin from time to time.

[pavned]

I think you kind of understimate the value of initiative in this match up:

Bear vs Marauder : Both same speed meaning that the marauder can always escape the bear with his higher initative.

The bear can only use his running ability once. That means, if the bear plays it well, he can inflict damage to the marauder once for a max 15 (max damage 10 x 1,5 for critical attack)

But the marauder got the swift stroke ability that can be recharge. So the MArauder, with higeher initiative can hit the bear with no-retaliation at the end of turn then escape away for 3 turns and use again that ability inflicting damages. The trick here is that the Marauder can't afford the bear to have him right beside him. If the marauder wants to keep usigng the swift stroke ability without getting attack he needs to keep at least 1 hex between him and the bear all the time. I think it's doable with a unit having higher initiative, you need to plan your movement well.

In the long run I can'T see the bear winning a 5 sets match. For a tie break, the strategy describe above won't work so the bear win. But on a normal grid the MArauder can manage to outrun the bear then hit him then run again enough time to kill the bear.

[dashcunning]

Originally Posted by Lord Ludwig

Last but not least, the very useful (early on in the campaign) royal snake goes down, IMHO, to the goblin, who can keep distance and attack from range.

I don't agree with this. The royal snake has 6 initiative and 3 speed vs the goblin's 5 initiative and 2 speed. The snake would close eventually with a minimum rate of 2 spaces per turn (snake moves 3 closer while goblin moves 1 away and attacks). Realistically, this is 3 per turn as the goblin can't move further away having started on the opposite end of the tennis court.

On average, the royal snake only needs to hit the goblin twice. First hit would be the strike ability which, with 18 attack and 25% crit vs 10 defense, does 14.25 damage. Second hit would be a regular attack which does 12.35 damage.

The goblin is more difficult due to the zeroing in ability. Does it increase attack or damage? It says attack, but there are plenty of mistranslations so it could be damage. Without any zeroing in bonus, a goblin's attack, with 16 attack and 10% crit vs 18 defense and 10% physical resistance, does 2.78 damage (24! hits to kill). If zeroing in increases attack, attack would increase by 4.8 (is this rounded up or down? what a mess) per round eventually reaching 78 attack vs 18 defense for a maximum damage of 8.91 (8 hits, still quite a few). If zeroing in increases damage, damage would increase by ... (this is a mess as well) lets say 0.83 (2.78 * 0.3) per turn. 10 hits to kill.

I don't see a goblin living long enough to get in that many hits unless the court is VERY large.

[Lord Ludwig]

Many thanks for the first comments!

Criticism by now is on two matches: 1) marauder vs bear; 2) goblin vs royal snake. I'll handle the more complex case first.

1) here I am not persuaded. Considering relative AT/DE ratio (14/8 for the bear, 12/16 for the marauder), the equal speed, the average damage the bear does (8.5 becoming 14.875 with AT/DE ratio) compared to that done by the marauder (4.5 becoming 3.5), the critical damage the bear does (a weighted 24.75), the health of the bear being 60 to the marauder's 35, it seems a dead sentence for the marauder. If he uses swift stroke then don't forget the bear has the "brutal" skill, meaning his AT doubles for that round, meaning he doesn't counterstrike but his following hit will do an average damage of 25.5 and a critical of 45. Maybe the marauder could use his higher initiative better just defending, but it still looks like curtains for him.

2) here instead I am persuaded. Actually the goblin's speed is 3 and not 2, but in turn I misread the RS's speed, thinking it was 2 like the other snakes when in fact it's 3. This means the goblin cannot keep distance and keep hitting at the same time, so indeed I will use my privilege as organizer, sponsor and supreme judge of the Teana Open to retcon the result of the first round and give a 3-o score to the royal snakes
It still remains an open question if the RS would have won if indeed the goblin had been one unit of speed faster like I erroneously thought he was.

[Zechnophobe]

Marauder vs Bear:

Start of Turn:
IF: Maurader is more than 2 squares away from bear He waits.
Bear moves.
If he can use no retal ability, he moves to position to do so.
IF: Marauder is not more than 2 squares away from bear, or is unable to use no retaliation ability: He runs away, out of range.

He shouldn't lose, he may not ever even get hit.

Speaking of.. how Does a Polar bear lose to a Thorn Hunter? ( mean, at all, you have it as 3-2 only, like it is a close combat or something).
PB has higher init, so it is similar to Marauder. Wait at beginning of turn, and then after thorn moves, move towards it.

Activate running only once you are 4 squares away. Should be a snap. It isn't like the thorn has inifinite retreat distance to keep backpedaling through.

[dashcunning]

Originally Posted by Lord Ludwig

Actually the goblin's speed is 3 and not 2

Goblin's speed really is 2, honest, cross my heart and hope to die. Furious goblins have a speed of 3, but those are the melee ones. Maybe that's where the confusion is coming from. Or maybe my game is just busted.