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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #1  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:13 AM
MikkOwl MikkOwl is offline
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Lightbulb SoW proposal: Merging different realism preference players online

Quick summary: Storm of War will bring even more complicated system management of aircraft. How to be more accomodating to pilots flying with some of these advanced settings and some who do not. More aids for the difficulty/realism section and how they can allow less experienced pilots to fly on realism style servers. A system for making people more tolerant of a larger range of aids on more realistic servers.

_________________________________
BACKGROUND
Increasing level of realism and detail coming in Storm of War. In particular to engine management, but other systems as well. Engine management will most likely be even more difficult and unforgiving for the uninitiated for that particular aircraft type.
THE PROBLEM WILL GROW
In the IL-2 era that we still live in, the servers are heavily divided by realism settings. The online pilots have different levels of skill, hardware and preferences. Even hardcore pilots can have limits for how much realism and workload they want for flying online. As the systems simulated become more realistic and advanced, the range of realism options becomes more vast as well. This will further cause division on the servers online and make the whole online experience more complicated. This presents a problem that hurts the online experience and divides even the more hardcore crowd.
A SOLUTION IN (bomb?) SIGHT(S)
A wider range of realism settings on the pilot's machine can be accomodated on a single server online. IL-2 currently supports mixed difficulty settings for pilots on servers. The only thing it sets is a 'minimal level' of realism required. This does not change with this proposal.
The examples given below of what COULD be adjustable are not a definite list of what it must be. It is just an example of what is possible to allow together. There are many very complicated features of aircraft not even modeled in IL-2 that can make an appearance in SoW, such as fuel tank selection, controls for pumping the fuel between different tanks, fuel pump primer levers, battery selection for engine starter for each individual engine and a large amount of other very complicated features that many of today's "100% realism!" pilots could probably not handle and would choose to use aids to automate these functions.
The range itself can include many things. Probably not typically on more realistic setups allowing flying without cockpit, turning on long range Friend or Foe icons with perfect range finder and target box, but many other things, especially systems that are aircraft specific and complicated. The list of things could include, from system management aid to flight aids:
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Speed, altitude and heading
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Target box
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - 100% accurate, real-time range-finder
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Target pilot name
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Target friend or foe indicator
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Automatic instant target destroyed notification
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Throttle setting
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - WEP/Injection etc status
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Automatic engine cylinder temperature warning status
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Prop pitch/fuel mix/radiator/feather/engine on/off status
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Stall warning system
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Out of ammunition warning
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Automatic instant, 100% accurate damage assessment system
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Low fuel warning
  • Helmet mounted display (HMD) - Out of fuel warning
  • Flight aid - Prop pitch/RPM (for each individual engine)
  • Flight aid - Fuel mixture (for each individual engine)
  • Flight aid - Oil cooler flap (for each individual engine)
  • Flight aid - Coolant radiator flap (for each individual engine)
  • Flight aid - Fuel line primer/pressure levers (for each individual engine)
  • Flight aid - Fuel tank selection
  • Flight aid - Fuel tank pump operation (moving fuel from one to another)
  • Flight aid - Super-charger
  • Flight aid - WEP
  • Flight aid - Take off
  • Flight aid - Landing
  • Flight aid - Taxiing
  • Flight aid - Spin recovery
  • Flight aid - Ground collision avoidance
  • Flight aid - Automatic prevention of overheating
None of these modify the physics, or the damage the plane can and will take. What the flight aids do is that they do is to have an experienced pilot (artificial intelligence) help the pilot with tasks he is unwilling or incapable of handling. The helmet mounted display aids helps people with crappy monitors, poor eyesight, or just no knowledge of how different system failiures might behave, get information they need.
SPECIFIC EXAMPLES
  1. In a P-47, there are limits to how much manifold pressure the engine can tolerate. With these difficulty settings, the pilot could be prevented from moving the throttle setting in such a way as to go past the maximum permissable manifold pressure.
  2. After pushing hard with WEP for a while, the engine reaches the point of overheating. The engine settings then cannot be set in a position to keep the engine overheating, and are automatically limited and manipulated to keep it in safe levels. The throttle cannot be moved past a certain point, radiators are opened, WEP is turned off and so on.
  3. Handling the aircraft on the ground, taking off and landing are all parts that can cause disaster for the pilot, his side, and fellow pilots. In the planned hours long battles with several sorties per pilot and aircraft (re-arming etc), it is a desirable feature to have for everyone involved. The artificial intelligence can handle these tasks for a pilot who wishes it.
  4. Automatic ground collision avoidance and automatic stall recovery will simply attempt (and may not be successful) to recover from stalls and avoid flying into the ground. They will not stop stalls and spins from occuring; only apply the correct technique to get out of spins, which can save the aircraft if having enough altitude. Overriding the pilot's input in these situations will help the inexperienced to stay in the fight and not crash out due to silly mistakes.
A SOLUTION WITH A PROBLEM
More hardcore pilots can feel unfairly treated and put at a disadvantage due to their higher difficulty settings. They will ask themselves: why should I accept that my opponents have it so easy in comparison? This can cause them to reject the idea of accepting the less hardcore pilots flying with automation of systems.
BUILDING A SYSTEM OF ACCEPTANCE FOR PILOTS WITH LOWER REALISM SETTINGS
There are three methods that can be used to gain acceptance as well as promote a desire to disable the automation and move up the realism ladder.
1. Limited aircraft performance. A logical result of a pilot using automated "no overheat" setting is that he cannot engage in the risky practice of overheating the engine. A result is worse acceleration and top speed after a short period of emergency performance. This goes for most systems apart from those relating to landing/take-off and head up display. The automatic stall recovery and ground collision avoidance overrides the pilot's input and will not be seen as an advantage for those who know how to do these things, especially as sometimes we want to really fly on or beyond the limits of the aircraft to shake an enemy from our tail.

2. Score penalty. Any score assigned to the player is penalized more heavily depending on his deviation from maximum realism. Different settings have different penalty, of course. It does not affect the pilot's ability to use the aids nor the outcome of the battle, but it introduces a sense of fairness for all involved.

3. Personal markers. Pilots can be clearly marked for all to see what kind of level they are flying on. Rank has never been used for there was no way to assign it in a logical way. Now ranks can be automatically assigned based on the realism settings of the pilot. Not only being a great source of prestige, it will also in many ways accurately display how skilled and experienced the pilot really is likely to be. The lowest rank being reserved for those with the most severe aids turned on, and the highest reserved for those going the extra distance of turning off even server permitted HUD icons, no matter how limited they may be.

_______________________________
CONCLUSION
Servers will still enforce their lowest required realism levels (for example, never any icons, or no transparent cockpits). The difference is that the range they can allow can be made larger. The above proposal shows that it is possible to allow a range of different pilot skills much wider than before to fly together in the same space, without any real consequence to those who fly on the highest realism levels. Even better, it is transparent and unnoticable for anyone involved, as the physics is the same for all. The best part: it even makes it more fun.

Last edited by MikkOwl; 02-12-2010 at 10:10 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:58 AM
AndyJWest AndyJWest is offline
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An interesting idea MikkOwl, but I don't think it will work. The way a pilot acts in a sim will be influenced by the particular 'scoring' he is eligible to receive. Pilots on 'easy' settings will always be more likely to take risks, simply because they have less to lose. If you try to 'level the playing field' by adjusting the scores, you will just end up with people attempting to find the 'easy way' and exploiting the inevitable limitations of any practical simulation. Personally, I'd rather fly on a simulation that attempts 'realism' even if it means I'm always on the losing side. It just makes the occasional kill more enjoyable.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:07 AM
MikkOwl MikkOwl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJWest View Post
The way a pilot acts in a sim will be influenced by the particular 'scoring' he is eligible to receive. Pilots on 'easy' settings will always be more likely to take risks, simply because they have less to lose. If you try to 'level the playing field' by adjusting the scores, you will just end up with people attempting to find the 'easy way' and exploiting the inevitable limitations of any practical simulation.
I must disagree. One cannot generalize all pilots on easier settings (and this is a pretty wide range of settings we are talking about, including even quite hardcore pilots). Their motivations for flying with the aids they have is probably mosty because they cannot handle more at that point in time, or lack the hardware setup necessary to do it properly. Then that some will care about scoring, yes, that is true. But then if they cared so much about scoring that they would take more risks to get it, then they are likely to choose having less aids to maximize any score they get. In this sense, this proposal is unlikely to change the fact that some pilots care a lot about score while others do not. The proposal's only challenge is setting the ratios correctly so that there is no ideal sweet spot setup where one gets the most score.

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Personally, I'd rather fly on a simulation that attempts 'realism' even if it means I'm always on the losing side. It just makes the occasional kill more enjoyable.
Me as well. Been flying mostly old Bf 110 G-2's versus 1944 Tempests, Spitfires and P-47's online. There are plenty of us like that. We can easily co-exist with those others who might prefer lower realism for the sake of some gain. They will suffer performance penalties (in a sense) as well as other penalties while not really giving them an advantage over us.

EDIT: I want to clarify that the lower realism settings (having aids) don't really give them benefits over those who understand how their plane works and how to fly it. It will never make them aim better or maneuver better. It will only help them avoid the kind of specific mistakes that the initiated avoids anyway, like blowing one's engine or crashing on take-off.

Last edited by MikkOwl; 02-12-2010 at 07:14 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2010, 07:10 AM
13th Hsqn Protos 13th Hsqn Protos is offline
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:24 AM
AndyJWest AndyJWest is offline
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Quote:
he proposal's only challenge is setting the ratios correctly so that there is no ideal sweet spot setup where one gets the most score.
This isn't just 'a challenge' it is probably impossible. Whenever a particular set of rules is established, people will look for the easiest way around them. This isn't anything unique to combat flight sims, or even to computer games in general. In any rule-based scoring system, people will find the best way to exploit he rules. The only way to avoid this is by not keeping score. That is probably to radical a suggestion for most online IL-2 players, but having spent years playing offline, where the only thing I could sensibly measure myself against was my own past performance, I don't have a particular problem with it.

If people find this difficult to handle, I'd just ask them one question. What was the final score in WWII? If you can't give a sensible answer to this, then why does scoring matter?
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:26 AM
MikkOwl MikkOwl is offline
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I don't mind having no score at all either, and I would even encourage it. But IL-2 has score (on all servers I have ever tried, at least) and I did not think it would go away, thus if there is score, then apply penalties. Without score, there's still the ranks
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:40 AM
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ZaltysZ ZaltysZ is offline
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Pilot, who is not experienced, always flies far from the edge of safe flight envelope, if he is afraid of mistakes. Pilot, who is experienced, tries to fly on the edge of safe flight envelope, if he sees the need. Very experienced pilot can fly in whole flight envelope including critical regions. Mistakes are part of online play and if you make "safety" limits, inexperienced pilots will be able to enjoy the same performance as experienced ones, but without fear of flying mistakes. Looks weird.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:41 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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1.) If I were to fly on a server I would want to see it ensured that everyone is flying at the same level of difficulty. No mixing between various levels.
2.) Score means squat. I mean it. You can't and won't change player attitudes or what they do (i.e. shoulder-shooting) by fiddling with something like score. That's a complete non-entity in that regard.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:42 AM
MikkOwl MikkOwl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaltysZ View Post
Pilot, who is not experienced, always flies far from the edge of safe flight envelope, if he is afraid of mistakes. Pilot, who is experienced, tries to fly on the edge of safe flight envelope, if he sees the need. Very experienced pilot can fly in whole flight envelope including critical regions. Mistakes are part of online play and if you make "safety" limits, inexperienced pilots will be able to enjoy the same performance as experienced ones, but without fear of flying mistakes. Looks weird.
Not enjoy the same performance. They cannot fly in critical regions and take risks. Worse performance but safer.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:43 AM
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Qpassa Qpassa is offline
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I think that the list of servers should be filtered by difficulty, I also want to play with people at my same level ,realistic 100%
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