BoM: Wonder if they'll model the poor Soviet Plexiglass?

[MoGas]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

I would not expect them to model the actual numbers for the VVS fighters as the whine would overwhelm anything seen here. LAgG-3 was utter piece of crap, pilots had to fly radiators open to avoid overheat, engine was underpowered, craftmanship sub-par. Add to that fumes, yellow tint plexiglass etc. and you get the pic.

First battles with La-5 were far from a success, Yak's had to ESCORT them because of poor performance and Bf109F-4/G-2 outperforming them in every way almost. Excessive workload for the pilot in La-5, undercarriages suffering breakages etc. List goes on and on. Stalin said: Quantity in itself is quality. Go figure.

What I expect to see in sequel are those TsAGI values with polished, stripped and seamless planes etc. The so called paper numbers which very few, if any, production aircraft met. The Russian FMs in IL-2 were already copy/paste in many planes..

+1

[xpzorg]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

I would not expect them to model the actual numbers for the VVS fighters as the whine would overwhelm anything seen here. LAgG-3 was utter piece of crap, pilots had to fly radiators open to avoid overheat, engine was underpowered, craftmanship sub-par. Add to that fumes, yellow tint plexiglass etc. and you get the pic.

Can't bet. So manifested evacuation factories in the Urals and 24 hours work of children and untrained women.

My grandfather was builder of new factories in Siberia and Urals in 41-43. They built big (in comparison) factories (200x120 meters) in woodland in one month.

[vranac]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

I would not expect them to model the actual numbers for the VVS fighters as the whine would overwhelm anything seen here. LAgG-3 was utter piece of crap, pilots had to fly radiators open to avoid overheat, engine was underpowered, craftmanship sub-par. Add to that fumes, yellow tint plexiglass etc. and you get the pic.

First battles with La-5 were far from a success, Yak's had to ESCORT them because of poor performance and Bf109F-4/G-2 outperforming them in every way almost. Excessive workload for the pilot in La-5, undercarriages suffering breakages etc. List goes on and on. Stalin said: Quantity in itself is quality. Go figure.

What I expect to see in sequel are those TsAGI values with polished, stripped and seamless planes etc. The so called paper numbers which very few, if any, production aircraft met. The Russian FMs in IL-2 were already copy/paste in many planes..

I think you are wrong.
Try to read something here with translator as I did.

http://iremember.ru/letchiki-istrebiteli/blog.html

http://iremember.ru/letchiki-shturmoviki/blog.html

You even have technical personnel.

http://iremember.ru/letno-tekh-sostav/blog.html

You will find many details there as wich fuel was used in particular sq(colour)
even how the food was and did they get 100g of vodka )


Germans had better planes in the beginning and more experienced pilots.
Germans used different tacticks then VVS.

99% pilots showed respect for LW pilots but also sad that they never attacked if they are not in a better position.They also never closely protected their bombers they were always ~3000m higher and not so close so russian pilots usually divide in two groups, one engaging fighters and other attacking bombers.

On the other way VVS bombers were closely protected and pilots were even punished for loss of bombers.
Covering group was also divided one close with bombers and other would engage enemy fighters.

Yes LW pilot could disengage at few first years of war but you will see if you read some of those memoirs that in combat speed they were on pair with german planes.
For the VVS pilots disengage was not an option.
Pilots who did that few times were sent as gunner in Il-2 to gather some courage.
But that was very rare.

[xpzorg]

Thank you Vranac for links. Very interesting. Here I found the interview of the famous pilot of Il-2 http://iremember.ru/letchiki-shturmo...ndreevich.html

And very interesting story of La-5FN pilot http://www.airpages.ru/ru/aleks.shtml

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

I would not expect them to model the actual numbers for the VVS fighters as the whine would overwhelm anything seen here. LAgG-3 was utter piece of crap, pilots had to fly radiators open to avoid overheat, engine was underpowered, craftmanship sub-par. Add to that fumes, yellow tint plexiglass etc. and you get the pic.

First battles with La-5 were far from a success, Yak's had to ESCORT them because of poor performance and Bf109F-4/G-2 outperforming them in every way almost. Excessive workload for the pilot in La-5, undercarriages suffering breakages etc. List goes on and on. Stalin said: Quantity in itself is quality. Go figure.

What I expect to see in sequel are those TsAGI values with polished, stripped and seamless planes etc. The so called paper numbers which very few, if any, production aircraft met. The Russian FMs in IL-2 were already copy/paste in many planes..

Hopefully not, although if past history is a guide, 1C will model their aircraft on factory performance figures.

Just as another perspective on Soviet quality, they did produce many aircraft which were innovative and advanced, and which performed well.

For example, during the Spanish Civil War, when the I-16 and I-15 were introduced, they initially completely outperformed the German He-51 biplanes, it wasn't till the 109's were introduced that the Condor Legion had a fighter which was of similar quality.

The Yak-1 and MiG-1/3 had many features which made them excellent fighters, the LaGG-3 less so, the La-5 initially wasn't much better than the LaGG, but improved.

My point was the problems with plexiglass was well documented in the early war aircraft.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by vranac

For the VVS pilots disengage was not an option.
Pilots who did that few times were sent as gunner in Il-2 to gather some courage.
But that was very rare.

Salute

With all due respect to the sacrifice of many Russian and other Soviet nationality lives, this as an example of inflexible Soviet tactical doctrine, (from Stalin) requiring pilots to stay and fight when a better situation would be to disengage and return later, is just one reason why the Soviet losses were so huge. (they admitted losing 60,000 planes, claimed 80,000 Germans, but German loss figures were about 15,000)

Requiring Fighters to load rockets and bombs, and sending them in at low altitudes, the whole lack of a high altitude air superiority fighter, meant the Germans were default given complete dominance up high, as well as the initiative and the ability to make attacks when and where they chose, all of this led to the losses, and the creation of the high scoring East Front Luftwaffe Aces.

It wasn't till Alexander Pokryshkin and others developed better tactics, and began to fly at higher alts that the Soviets began to turn the tables. And their gaining air superiority really had more to do with simple numbers than any good planning by the VVS higher ranks.

[Kodoss]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

What I expect to see in sequel are those TsAGI values with polished, stripped and seamless planes etc. The so called paper numbers which very few, if any, production aircraft met. The Russian FMs in IL-2 were already copy/paste in many planes..

russian aviation.jpg

Need no comments....

[Flanker35M]

S!

I've read Russian memoirs and they all follow same theme: We shot down Germans with words and writings on our planes, we struck them down with pure awesomeness! Give me a break Russians did not admit their losses at all in many cases, evidence found in their archives, mostly they were "technical problems". I would say they had some very talented pilots like Golybev or Pokryshkin leading a mass of medicore pilots + almost endless reserves and insane supply of planes. Germans could not win a war of attrition against that.

Anyways I would not expect the flaws and poor workmanship being reflected in the sequel, on either side. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. Gonna get the sequel for sure just to support combat sims.

[vranac]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Salute

With all due respect to the sacrifice of many Russian and other Soviet nationality lives, this as an example of inflexible Soviet tactical doctrine, (from Stalin) requiring pilots to stay and fight when a better situation would be to disengage and return later, is just one reason why the Soviet losses were so huge. (they admitted losing 60,000 planes, claimed 80,000 Germans, but German loss figures were about 15,000)

Requiring Fighters to load rockets and bombs, and sending them in at low altitudes, the whole lack of a high altitude air superiority fighter, meant the Germans were default given complete dominance up high, as well as the initiative and the ability to make attacks when and where they chose, all of this led to the losses, and the creation of the high scoring East Front Luftwaffe Aces.

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by vranac

In the first years on the Eastern front Red Army had to stop agression with any means and at any cost.
My country was also attacked in april 1941. with more then 10:1 in the air and pilots were taking off, attacking the enemy even heavily outnumberd,
geting shot down but taking off again until there was no more planes.

Did RAF pilots disengaged when they defended their country even outnubered tryin to stop enemy bomber formation.?
Don't think so.
LW sent their pilots on practically suicide missions to attack bombers which were very well covered at the end of the war.

You don't have that luxury when you are defending your country.

And just one more point regarding numbers VVS confirmed downed planes only if ground crew find the remains of the planes even when guncams were introduced.It was the case in Korea also.
LW confirmed kills on witneses and guncam recordings.

Sorry for the off.

+1