Game Hurricane is 534 lbs overweight

[Catseye]

Whew, gotta cut down on the beer and sausage!

Good find guys. The devil certainly is in the details. 1C have indicated in the past that they model on real specs. Hopefully they will get to them before the final patch.

Cheers

[JtD]

Originally Posted by flyingblind

Very interesting. One point which might be worth considering is whether the real life weight includes a pilot. If not then the game weight would need to be a little heavier to allow for this although you would be unlikely to have a 700lb guy sat in the seat!

Pilot is part of service load and included. It should still be noted that wartime tare figures and in game tare figure have little in common, what one has to look for is that fully loaded planes in game and real life have the same weight, and that usables like fuel and ammo correspond to historical figures. Empty weight historically, depending on air force and time, sometimes does not include guns, radio, armour and other things like survival gear, flares, gunsights, guncams, oxygen equipment etc., while in game it does.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by JtD

Pilot is part of service load and included. It should still be noted that wartime tare figures and in game tare figure have little in common, what one has to look for is that fully loaded planes in game and real life have the same weight, and that usables like fuel and ammo correspond to historical figures. Empty weight historically, depending on air force and time, sometimes does not include guns, radio, armour and other things like survival gear, flares, gunsights, guncams, oxygen equipment etc., while in game it does.

but that logic should then similarly apply to the spitfire and 109, yet neither of those has the "overweight problem" that the hurricane indicates according to Buzzsaw's OP

[csThor]

All 109s were too heavy when I last checked. Haven't noticed that this has been corrected, yet, either.

[Kwiatek]

FM and performace still need a lot of correction in CLOD:

- wrong weight of planes - overweight

- wrong maximum speed - all fighters are too slow

- wrong climb rate - too slow climb rate at medium to high alts

- wrong maximum service celling - way to low service celling

I know ( beacuse i was FM modder in old Il2) that such things was possible to make in il2 1946 i wonder what stops 1C to make it correct and more acccurate in CLOD???

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by csThor

All 109s were too heavy when I last checked. Haven't noticed that this has been corrected, yet, either.

but by only about less then a 1/10th the amount we are now discussing for the hurricane, so not really relevant

if buzzsaw is correct, and by all indications so far he is, then this is a massive problem for the hurricane which needs to be resolved quickly

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by zapatista

but by only about 1/10th the amount

if buzzsaw is correct, and by all indications so far he is, then this is a massive problem for the hurricane which needs to be resolved quickly

It doesn't matter so much because how the FM is set up. The basic performance data seems to be set in stone (speed, climb, turn), and the engine just works out the results for different speeds/angles of attack/altitudes. More weight just not effects the raw performance so much as in real life, though it may well effect the handling/behaviour.

For example, since power and max speed are set, the engine may work out the acceleration from this, for which it also takes account weight. In the end, acceleration for example may be less due to increased weight, even though the plane reaches the same speed and turns just as well. OTOH it may well dive better than it should due to increased cross sectional densitity.

In short the effects are secondary, not primary.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

The so-called "armor plating over the tank" is in fact just a very slightly thicker aluminium plate over the fuel tank (its more like a deflector plate since it can really stop bullets unless they come in a shallow angle)

Maybe you'd like to provide some proof for this assertion?

The weight added for the cockpit bullet proof glass and over tank armour is a total of 434 lbs, seems excessive if the armour plating was simply a thin sheet of aluminum. My understanding it was actual steel plate. I will be checking further references.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by zapatista

but that logic should then similarly apply to the spitfire and 109, yet neither of those has the "overweight problem" that the hurricane indicates according to Buzzsaw's OP

That logic indeed applies to Spitfire and 109 as well, and so it does to all other planes. If they aren't overweight or less overweight, they are simply not done as wrongly.

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

It doesn't matter so much because how the FM is set up. The basic performance data seems to be set in stone (speed, climb, turn), and the engine just works out the results for different speeds/angles of attack/altitudes. More weight just not effects the raw performance so much as in real life, though it may well effect the handling/behaviour.

That's not quite right. Of course it is possible to reach correct performance with totally wrong input numbers in game, but once you have your parameters set, and then change weight, there'll be the associated loss in performance just like it would be in real life. But be this as it may, imo a simulation game should have both, input and output correct. Otherwise the term simulation is just an empty phrase. Proper weights are one of the foundations for this.

Like I've said before, the FM of the Hurricane as listed in that other topic is essentially the same which was used in il-2 1946. Same fundamental flaws. It's a nasty surprise it was carried over 1:1.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

The weight added for the cockpit bullet proof glass and over tank armour is a total of 434 lbs, seems excessive if the armour plating was simply a thin sheet of aluminum. My understanding it was actual steel plate. I will be checking further references.

Maybe you guys are talking about something different? The aircraft tested had so called fuel tank armour fitted already, and the overload condition was still on top of this.