BF109's and Stukas too hard to shoot down? Anyone else finding this?

[ReconNZ]

Hi All, I''m loving the game post patch, but struggling to get kills on single seat fighters. I Did some testing and returned the following:

In a quick mission i scored 247 hits from incendiary and armour peircing .303 rounds into a bf109, and not only was it still flying, it wasnt even smoking. Sure the wings were a little shot up and the tail had some holes, but surely in reality a single seat fighter could take this kind of damage and still be flying along happily?

I had realistic gunnery on, limited ammo, just me and him in the air and all shots were from dead astern. I do love the damage model in CloD - I've seen bombers and fighters go down after just a couple of hits in the engines or cockpits, but surely 247 rounds up the backside would be enough to bring down any fighter?

Maybe the damage model needs tweaking from dead astern? What does everyone else think?

[Buchon]

To this reports a track file are more useful.

[ElAurens]

You must remember that the .303" British cartridge was adopted in 1888 as the standard infantry rifle round. It was designed to kill unarmoured, soft skinned human beings, not shoot down machines that had not been invented yet.

Rifle caliber machine guns, while still in use in most air forces at the start of WW2 were inadequate at best in the air to air role. It was not uncommon for German bombers to get back to their bases in France with hundreds of bullet holes in them.

To take down a fighter you must hit something vital. Hard to do from astern with what amounts to a fast firing deer rifle.

[Buchon]

Try always shot at the convergence distance and shot short bursts.

And has ElAurens said, aim to vital parts, don´t shot the airplanes form, aim to their engines, for example

[Positronic]

I put hundreds of bullets into a bf109 last night from my spit, eventually the pilot bailed, the bf109 flew for a good 10 minutes on it's own before crashing (we were at sea level).

bombers seem to go down a lot easier

[ReconNZ]

Yeah good call re the convergence, unfortunately the bug whereby u cant set up your guns in the QMB is frustrating.

The tails of planes are largely empty right? So that many rounds into the tail, surely some of them would go on to harm the pilot? And where are the fuel tanks? Have yet to see a plane explode.

I've seen .303 rounds shoot through tree trunks, add in armour piercing rounds and surely a pilot would be harmed by that many rounds going into the back of his plane?

Plus when we take rounds from bombers, it only takes a couple before our planes are smoking or we are wounded, doesnt seem to be the same for AI planes..

[FlushMeister]

I really hope it aint a bug hehehe, As people mentioned it could be convergence, in a QM I sometimes see the guns hitting each wingitp on the fighters when I'm close and dont do much damage, if they fixed the gun convergence settings thing then a good idea would be to set it similar to a thing I saw on discovery where they set all pairs of guns to one different convergence, so it becomes a "band" or "carpet" of bullets that works in a wider variety of distances..?

Originally Posted by ElAurens

You must remember that the .303" British cartridge was adopted in 1888 as the standard infantry rifle round. It was designed to kill unarmoured, soft skinned human beings, not shoot down machines that had not been invented yet.

Rifle caliber machine guns, while still in use in most air forces at the start of WW2 were inadequate at best in the air to air role. It was not uncommon for German bombers to get back to their bases in France with hundreds of bullet holes in them.

To take down a fighter you must hit something vital. Hard to do from astern with what amounts to a fast firing deer rifle.

[Rather peeved]

i actually reckon this is one of the few areas of the game they got absolutely right.

Read Len Deighton's book about the BoB, Fighter. he talks about british pilots being utterly frustrated about emptying every .303 bullet they had into an enemy plane and it simply sailing on unaffected. when they trialled canon the results were spectacular, but the early versions jammed badly.

[DB605]

These topics made me laugh..."i cant bring this and that down, is it too hard?" lol guys, all you need to do is sort out your aiming. More practise is key to succes

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by DB605

These topics made me laugh..."i cant bring this and that down, is it too hard?" lol guys, all you need to do is sort out your aiming. More practise is key to succes

My issue isnt "it's too hard" - far from it. My question though was is it realistic to score 250 hits on a single seat fighter and not even make it smoke? On a closer examination it had literally dozens of holes in the fuselage, all of which made from dead astern, and yet the damage model recorded no major damage to either the pilot, or any of the planes vitals.

My question was is the damage model inaccurate from dead astern? I think it may be -this wasnt a one off - its easily reproducable, both with the 109 and the stukka.