Double Belt Max Morale Black Dragon

[ckdamascus]

Not worth it for my game (I need the spare Mind Runes for Rune Mages), but just to show people.

[Metathron]

Wow that is a whole lotta defense. I imagine it's overkill, but since you're the KB mathematician, I'll let you tell me past which point the extra defense stops reducing the damage.

[onepiece]

Dear Lord..I'm too drunk right now too understand how you did it so tomorrow I'll reply again tomorrow

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Metathron

Wow that is a whole lotta defense. I imagine it's overkill, but since you're the KB mathematician, I'll let you tell me past which point the extra defense stops reducing the damage.

Short answer is usually around 160 defense if you plan on using him in boss fights.

My trolls do 'semi-well' with 119-127ish defense but 55% physical resistance.

Well the game has three layers of defense.

1) Magic Shield? yes or not. 50% reduction if yes.
2) Resistances? apply, capped at 95% reduction.
3) Attack/Defense check, capped at 2/3 damage reduction (it is basically about 3.33% per attack/defense difference) OR at taking up to 3X damage.

Basically the cap is +60 Attack over Defense, capped at 2/3 damage reduction.

If the attacker has 1 attack rating, and defender has 179 defense rating, his damage is only cut by 2/3s... so the attacker will still do 1/3 damage.

Ironically, this means enemies with HUGE numbers sometimes does more damage to me than big level 5 giants like Tirexes. (since lower level units have better damage per leadership).

Baal and Ktahu have ~100 attack rating, so you need ~160 defense to hit the sweet spot. Anything over that, is excessive.

Arguably, the normal enemy CAN achieve attack ratings even higher with enemy Ogres (Ogre rage! sometimes their attack rating is up to like 140), but since most enemies do not, my black dragons still die. I need the mind runes to help me restore them with phantom rune mages.

At that point, only resists helps you, so swapping Heart of the Dragon for Leather Dress does more for my defense.

Oh yeah I should have moused over to show his current physical defense... it is 60%. If I retool it with the proper items though, I can get it to about 70%, but it would hurt my giants attack ability.

@onepiece
Per Crossworld's manual (ironically sitting in the program files directory where King's Bounty is installed, haha), Scrounger's reward is ALWAYS a composite item.

When a player here mentioned he got two belts of the victor, I was shocked, as if done by normal components, the odds are probably ridiculously low, like 1 in 2 million or something.

However, he said he got the other belt, pre-built by beating Scrounger. His first belt was from components. Ah, suddenly from 1 in 2 million, to something probably like 1/4 IF you have the belt of the victor from components via scanner.

The scanner does NOT tell you what Scrounger will give you (or at least it is not apparent to me) ahead of time. So I made sure I had at least one belt of the victor. After beating Scrounger, I was quite pleased that she gave me yet another belt!

Heart of the Dragon gives me +1 Morale. Voice of the Dragon Gives me +2 morale.

[Fatt_Shade]

Ok BD are stronger out of battle, but wont Red`s be better in one ? Divine armor, Stone skin, Magic spring . . . any other spell you want can cast on red`s, black are not much spell friendly I know every point in deff above 160 is waste, but it`s funny to see( first screen).
All that 20/40/60 att/deff points difference should be rescaled to every 20 points 50% more dmg, and like that 6 times, up to 250-300%. This 300% more dmg for +60 att to low lvl units isnt scaled right.

Opposite situation BD with 1 attack is also funny, Eye of dragon + Shield of reckross (second screen). I had also dragon tooth necklace, but didnt effect them at all

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Ok BD are stronger out of battle, but wont Red`s be better in one ? Divine armor, Stone skin, Magic spring . . . any other spell you want can cast on red`s, black are not much spell friendly I know every point in deff above 160 is waste, but it`s funny to see( first screen).
All that 20/40/60 att/deff points difference should be rescaled to every 20 points 50% more dmg, and like that 6 times, up to 250-300%. This 300% more dmg for +60 att to low lvl units isnt scaled right.

Opposite situation BD with 1 attack is also funny, Eye of dragon + Shield of reckross (second screen). I had also dragon tooth necklace, but didnt effect them at all

Depends on the role they play. Black Dragons are... what I call "interdictors". They are sort of like the commanders in the field. They help reduce the enemy intiative, move very fast, and shoot-through enemies, and also do a rain of fire which can hit the same enemy twice now!

There aren't a lot of buffs I would want to cast on a dragon besides anything that raises physical resistance, but I would never use a black dragon as a "starter" unit anyway. A red dragon, maybe... but later on I have much better starter units.

Hell breath does not work on him either. Raising their defense "naturally" without any buffs is ideal for me since I can spend my time casting other spells on my other units instead.

I'm not sure if you are asking me or suggesting to me how the attack/defense scale shoudl work. In case you weren't sure,

In a nut shell, each attack point is ~3.33% increase in damage, capped at 200% (or 3X damage)

Each defense point is the inverse. 1/(3.33%* point).. or capped at 1/3 damage.

All in all though, those are some pretty sick numbers for your red dragon.

[Fatt_Shade]

What do you mean Hell breath doesnt work on Red`s? (screenshot 1)
I`m not asking/saying about att/deff mechanic, only stating that int works better with it`s formula for every point +5% and every 7 points bonus 15% dmg to spells. Why not do something simmilar to att/deff, top bonus gives some MAX value but in some other formula, since obviously +60 def is easily reachable (and much more). Same goes to att, why would i invest in frenzy lvl 3 if top bonus is +60 and anything more is a waste (and also reachable).

Maybe i`m bitching about little things, and maybe i`m just w8ing and hoping for any kind of news about KB2

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

What do you mean Hell breath doesnt work on Red`s? (screenshot 1)
I`m not asking/saying about att/deff mechanic, only stating that int works better with it`s formula for every point +5% and every 7 points bonus 15% dmg to spells. Why not do something simmilar to att/deff, top bonus gives some MAX value but in some other formula, since obviously +60 def is easily reachable (and much more). Same goes to att, why would i invest in frenzy lvl 3 if top bonus is +60 and anything more is a waste (and also reachable).

Maybe i`m bitching about little things, and maybe i`m just w8ing and hoping for any kind of news about KB2

Oh sorry, I mixed it up with Demons, which as far as I remember, do not benefit from Hell Breath.

In any event, red dragons tend to do so little damage...

[Zechnophobe]

While 160 may be needed for... a few fights. I think 130 is going to be as much as you need for 99% of the fights, since that is 60 over a black dragon. Who has 100 attack? I guess Ogre's can get it, and some hero's will put up those kind of numbers...

[Fatt_Shade]

You`r right about 160 isn`t needed in this kind of gameplay. My tohught is that when (i hope) they make some king of multiplayer in KB2 you`ll need deff so high, since other players will have enough att to match it.
In this setup having 100-120 deff is more then enough in 80% of battles