AI Remaining Ammo

[Oh Chute!]

Is it possible to insert a new command into the single player campaign command tree that would allow the player to direct all the AI’s remaining ammo (not bomb load) be used on specified target, ie: vehicles, trains, etc..

I’ve noticed that left to the “system” AI quit attacking and circle the target or turn to the next waypoint and base with ammo remaining. (I’ve tested this several times now on autopilot.)

Is there a default system reserve? And if so can it be accessed by inserting a command such as above?

Cheers. Oh Chute!

[Sita]

at current moment of time i can't say anything about programming AI...

but on Aviaskins present one person who make interesting mod for AI ... and i hope that in some moment that work will be added into game... but at the moment there is no confidence in anything...

[Avimimus]

What I'd like is the opposite - an option in realism which causes AI to have a certain chance to abort an attack and flee after using up 25% or 50% or 75% of ammo.

Or even to use the 'call for help' range check in the AI code to have a chance to RTB if separated from allied flights...

...because real pilots weren't suicidal maniacs (at least not all of them).

[idefix44]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

What I'd like is the opposite - an option in realism which causes AI to have a certain chance to abort an attack and flee after using up 25% or 50% or 75% of ammo.

Or even to use the 'call for help' range check in the AI code to have a chance to RTB if separated from allied flights...

...because real pilots weren't suicidal maniacs (at least not all of them).

+1

[Oh Chute!]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

What I'd like is the opposite - an option in realism which causes AI to have a certain chance to abort an attack and flee after using up 25% or 50% or 75% of ammo.

Or even to use the 'call for help' range check in the AI code to have a chance to RTB if separated from allied flights...

...because real pilots weren't suicidal maniacs (at least not all of them).

Generally, once engaged fighter to fighter, pilots fought it out until they 1/ took damage, 2/ were low on fuel, or 3/ depleted ammo stores.

The game manages the ammo pretty well as AI fighters break off with substantial ammo stores remaining. Even when attacking ground targets.
Where the game lets things down is in fuel management. The game doesn’t RTB AI low on fuel until it is far too late. Same goes with crippled aircraft. The call to RTB doesn’t come until the aircraft is falling out of the sky.

[wheelsup_cavu]

When told to RTB they almost always will RTB at the last NORMFLY waypoint's altitude before the LANDING waypoint so if it set really low they will terrain hug until they almost invariably hit something. I wish there was a way to specify that RTB altitude but until that happens I set a fairly high waypoint altitude for that last waypoint. The absolute minimum I use for that last NORMFLY waypoint is 1000 meters. So at least one aircraft will land on the first pass I set it roughly at a ten to one distance from the landing waypoint.

1000 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 10 kilometers (10000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint
5000 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 50 kilometers (50000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint
7500 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 75 kilometers (75000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint

It can take some fiddling by aircraft but that is a fairly decent starting point.


Wheels

[Marabekm]

Originally Posted by wheelsup_cavu

When told to RTB they almost always will RTB at the last NORMFLY waypoint's altitude before the LANDING waypoint so if it set really low they will terrain hug until they almost invariably hit something. I wish there was a way to specify that RTB altitude but until that happens I set a fairly high waypoint altitude for that last waypoint. The absolute minimum I use for that last NORMFLY waypoint is 1000 meters. So at least one aircraft will land on the first pass I set it roughly at a ten to one distance from the landing waypoint.

1000 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 10 kilometers (10000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint
5000 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 50 kilometers (50000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint
7500 meters NORMFLY altitude, set 75 kilometers (75000 meters) away from LANDING waypoint

It can take some fiddling by aircraft but that is a fairly decent starting point.


Wheels

From the game manual:
If you create a mission where you start on an airfield and plan to reach high altitude, you should set enough waypoints with the right trajectory or spiral curve so that the climb corresponds to the capabilities of the planes. It is also very important to give the right settings for AI planes. Use climb rate data for each plane from the View Object menu. To make sure that AI planes will achieve the given altitude, set the correct time between each waypoint
so that planes can climb to the next altitude.We recommend that you set a realistic data climb rate on the low altitudes and two to three times less at altitudes higher than 4,000 meters. It is also very important to know that the first waypoint (at takeoff on the airfield) shows the direction of the takeoff – the icon on the runway border indicates the direction.

If the last waypoint of the aircraft flight is landing on an airfield, make sure that the previous waypoint was set at an altitude of not more than 200–250 meters and is at least 1.5 km before the final landing point in the direction of the landing glissade on the closest runway border (the icon shows the side from which the plane will land). If your flight was at high altitude, make sure you establish as many waypoints as are needed for a smooth dive to the point of the final approach. If you ignore this advice, we cannot ensure that
your plane or the AI plane will not be damaged when diving from high altitudes at critical speeds. This is especially important for bombers!


Also:
When told to RTB, AI goes to the last waypoint BEFORE the landing waypoint. IE--- Waypoint 10 is the landing waypoint at the field, RTB command sends AI to waypoint 9.

[Oh Chute!]

To which waypoint is the default waypoint for RTB, is moot when planes have been set on a campaign mission distance that insures no successful RTB due to depleted fuel stores, and that includes negligible time over target to protect bombers from local defenders in the air.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Oh Chute!

Generally, once engaged fighter to fighter, pilots fought it out until they 1/ took damage, 2/ were low on fuel, or 3/ depleted ammo stores.

What is your source for this?

My memory is pretty hazy but I seem to recall fighter pilots getting separated, losing morale, or failing to keep track of the enemy.

Maybe different skill levels? The accounts you were reading involved aces (or pilots who burned through all their ammo without keeping reserves)?

[Oh Chute!]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

What is your source for this?

My memory is pretty hazy but I seem to recall fighter pilots getting separated, losing morale, or failing to keep track of the enemy.

Maybe different skill levels? The accounts you were reading involved aces (or pilots who burned through all their ammo without keeping reserves)?

I’m sure all that happened as a consequence of the fog of war, but no, I was referring to what I had read of fighter pilot accounts. Fuel stores figured more into their choices than ammo stores. Though everyone always wants more ammo.

Allied Intercept points were generally fixed to where the invading force had the least fuel in reserve compared to the defenders arriving, giving the advantage to the defender. Case in point, Battle of Britain. Engagements were short and intense as German fighters were low on fuel, very short time over target, and the RAF had but one goal and that was to destroy as many German aircraft as possible taking full benefit of that fuel advantage to keep the German fighters engaged. In three months and three weeks Britain lost 1542 aircrew and 1744 aircraft.

Another is the Siege of Malta. Here Germany had Air superiority until Summer of 42 and the arrival of the Spitfire. That summer Canadian ace George Beurling shot down 27 enemy aircraft in 14 days under pressing German attacks. But here is the kicker. Med convoy duty out of Malta was so dependent on fuel stores that pilots who stayed too long as escort had no choice but to bail out and hope to be picked up and returned safely to Malta. And Malta was completely dependent on supply by sea for everything including replacement aircraft.