Early, Overall thoughts on WotN

[Zechnophobe]

I've played all the KB games since Legend, and played through them each multiple times. I've looked forward to WotN for a while now, and having played through to Arlania, wanted to give some thoughts on how I feel things are.


Pacing
With about 12 hours into the game, I feel this is an actual problem for the game. Unlike previous titles, it has a lot more hard 'gating' encounters in the game. Uldar/Ahriman/Eric fights are all required to simply leave the first area. The Necro Spider is required to leave the first islands. I assume there will be even more later on. To be honest, I feel this is far too strict, especially considering how few options you get before each bottleneck. You have a grand total of 8 different possible units (plus spider/snake trash) before leaving the first island. 8! And yet that's about 4 hours of play right there. Opening up new areas allows you to go into 'explore' mode, where you have fun just finding new things to buy, new items on the ground, and new armies to recruit. By putting them behind 'grind' walls, I feel we spend too long being 'forced' to fight certain battles over and over again.

Repitition
This is another big issue. Not only are we not getting to progress through the game at our own rate, but the limit to the number and types of units you can use (and rage abilities too!) combined with the limited scope of opponents, means you fight almost the exact same battle over and over again. Necro/skel/skel archer/zombie fight? For the 50th time?

One of the strengths of previous titles is how they would mix up the armies each play through, and you'd occasionally get interesting combinations. But the ridiculous amount of Undead for the first 12 hours of gameplay leaves you pretty fatigued from it. In Armored Princess, you had different islands each with noticeably different troops to recruit, and enemies to kill. And you could skip back and forth between at least the first three, right from the very start.

Class Skills

This is clearly the biggest strength of WotN so far. The three class trees are the most interesting that I've seen yet in the three games. We have a clear rage/leadership/magic split in specialization, and there are a mix of strong skills in all three. That said, there are still a few weird hiccups. The Rune magic skill is fairly high in the magic tree, and yet most of the spells we find early game are Runic, so non-mages have difficulty doing much early. Further more, access to the full 'rage' mechanic doesn't happen until AFTER the first major gating encounter (ahriman/uldar/eric). This means that the poor Viking class has the weakest start for both of the first two gates, since one doesn't let him use anything but an un upgraded 'viking vortex' and the other doesn't let him use anything at all!

Also, you can't level up the rage abilities of Valkyries you don't have, meaning that there is a feeling that you want to power through to unlock the valkyries just so you can level them up as you see fit.

Locations

WotN has some really nice looking zones, so far. I'm really pleased with them. Each island is also quite sizeable, unlike the Armored Princess islands that were fairly small.

That said, the way you move through them is a little bit painful. Instead of the nice free-form 'find the map, go there' system, that also gave access to wanderer scrolls, you instead have a more linear 'do this, do that' style motion. Frankly, I'm rather sad that you encounter wanderer scrolls so much less in the early game, as they gave some interesting depth to complicated fights. The summon scrolls (do they even exist?) let you gain access to a wide variety of units you otherwise couldn't. They don't seem to be as big of a factor this time around.


Story

This has looked very good. The actual story is much bigger in this game than previous ones. It has a more traditional feel with the 'prince wanting to be king' vibe. I would say it isn't quite as integrated as Armored Princess was. In AP you had 8 stones you had to retreive, and could do so in (basically) the order you desired, and drove you to go to the challenging locations as you became strong enough to do so. The more linear story in WotN, while more interesting in the terms of plot, also ends up being a bit too controlling.


Summary

All in All, I still find the game fun, but I feel there are a lot of missed opportunities. EVERY game previous to this one has had the struggle of 'no good options early' for your army. Basic human troops and Royal snakes? Again? The fact that WotN makes this same mistake, and makes it SO MUCH worse is very aggravating. The game seems to have more bugs, and mistranslations than previous titles, and some tool tips seem to miss important information.

It's not quite the quality of experience I was hoping for, and am really hoping some of the issues get fixed.

[PennyT18]

Some things better, some not so much. A lot more bugs than I experienced with the previous two games but then I didn't get in on them when they were first released. This is the second game this year I've pre-purchased and since they both have bugs, I'm assuming this is the norm. I do have a few bugs to post in the thread that I haven't seen yet.

I also learned of a few mistakes I've made in completing a couple of quests, which tempts me to just start over from scratch. Learning experience, I guess.

Overall, I'm still looking forward to seeing what else the game has to offer.

[camelotcrusade]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think we have similar expectations from the game.

Two things I would add. For me, the mix of magical items wasn't very interesting. I didn't find anything in shops worth buying since they just handed me a wonderful helmet and chest (preorder heh) and a really good weapon and artifact (tooth necklace) plus a free regalia (bird). That didn't leave many slots to worry about or play with. The only thing I really wanted was regalia because the valkyrie wants it and none are for sale in my game.

On the plus side, I thik the music is great and the new themes are stirring and fitting.

[Highborne]

The biggest complaint I have is no Rage skills and no leveling until 2nd island, it is lame and boring. Also, as you pointed out the Viking class is screwed over pretty hard by this.
Easy fix would be allow all the other Rage skills that can be learned except Valk and level as normal (think about it, your first Rage skill is you attacking the enemy...how is that NOT leveling by using it). So the Ice Wall, Ice Attack should be able to be learned and leveled before meeting Valk #1.

I think there is some variety of units on the first four islands, but it is limit to primarily vikings because the rest just don't have the numbers to support playing with them unless you are amazingly good at a no-loss scenario (Dwarves, Plants, Bears (all versions)/Snakes/Fish/Wolves/Spiders, minor Undead (from a boat iirc), Pirates/Marauders, a few Trolls and Jotuns). However, besides running maybe a Jotun, Pirates/Mauraders and Bears the rest are in so little numbers...it isn't feasible to even attempt armies other than vikings.

Finally, Rune Mages are ridiculously overpowered. Just saying.

And yes, lack of Regalia...I have found maybe 4 (including Dragon Gem for 200k) and I dunno if I will ever be able to upgrade my valk to level 5.

[blacklegionary]

The Valkyries are the most troublesome for me, playing the Viking I use rage skill a lot, that lead to the later Valkyries' skill become very hard to level (high level already when I get them). And I also find myself want to power through the game early to get all the Valkyries, This is really a handicap for Viking class.
I havent went through much of the game but it seems longer than previous KB game (not counting you do 1 battle in a few hours).

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Highborne

Finally, Rune Mages are ridiculously overpowered. Just saying.

Run and tell that.

Previous 'ressurection engines' are generally more complicated than "rune mage, anything that can summon, and Runic Word'

I mean, Runic Word is as cheap a spell as they come. And if all you care about is infinite summons? Well the phantom-royal griffin strategy is a million times better when it costs 3 mana instead of 25.

[Highborne]

I run Royal Griffons, Inquisitors, Paladins, Archers, Rune Mages.

Use Runic Word for runes on Rune Mage round 1.
Use Laser Beam to wreck a ranged stack.
Hit things with Inq and Archers.
Griffons either wait/summon griffons or buff units.
Paladins make Rune Mages go again.

Rune Mages make copies of Paladins which cycled back to Rune Mage for more Paladin stacks.

End of Turn use Laser beam to kill 1-2 more stacks.

Summoned Paladin Stacks tank everything.

Win battle; I am easily beating invincible enemies with no losses without resorting to mass resurrection, maybe res for 2 rounds at the end.

[Mandea]

My problem concerns bugs. In Verlania there is a High archmage rezo tower and no matter how much you click nothing happens, although there is a quest icon above it. I found a new upgradable artefact which cannot be upgraded. You click upgrade- ok and nothing happens.
And so on and so forth. nothing too important but annoying nonetheless.

[Nevar]

Sorry wrong thread. This is what I get for multi-tabbing.

[Fatt_Shade]

@Highborne

The biggest complaint I have is no Rage skills and no leveling until 2nd island, it is lame and boring. Also, as you pointed out the Viking class is screwed over pretty hard by this.

How about in the Legend where for first to get rage box you need to finish couple of main quests and even then you get spirits 1by1 not all of them together (like is in AP/CW where pet dragon is available from start).