demon line-up

impy · #1 03-09-2010, 07:16 PM

i am considering playing the game no loss impossible with demon line-up + demonologists.
But i am still baffled how to effectively ressurect without it being tedious and annoying.
Only demonologists, ressurect spell, time back, paladin ressurect comes to mind when it comes to ressurecting demons
i suppose kiting to Shattera, take units, don't do any cheap quests in order not to make the game to easy to start, come back to debir and start. i guess target spell + paladin ressurect with the help of cloned demonologists would do.
Anybody tried demon line-up? Just don't want to find out later on it is a pain rather than fun

Metathron · #2 03-09-2010, 09:14 PM

I was under the impression the resurrection spell does not work on demons? Does the paladin's skill work?

And to me a demon line-up for a no-loss game does sound like tedium. Without the no-loss restrictions (but keeping them at a minimum) it could be fun, though.

impy · #3 03-09-2010, 09:43 PM

resurrection spell works, tried it. Paladin skill don't know, but since it happily resurrects everything including undead, droids etc. i suppose it will be fine.

loreangelicus · #4 03-09-2010, 11:23 PM

In KBTL I had the Demetrius Staff (-20% leadership of demons) and Anga's Ruby, and had Demon and Demoness in my party; completing that lineup was Inquisitors, Shamans, Emerald Green Dragons.

It was a pain to keep the party at no-loss since Demon/Demoness/Shaman were all level 4 units and needed a level 3 Resurrect to recover losses; the Inquisitors, btw, can't touch/resurrect demons. So even if I just lost 1 single Demon I needed to cast a high-mana Resurrect spell for it.

In KBAP, a lineup consisting of Demon/Executioner/Archdemon/Demonologist/Demoness would be nice, but would be a pain to keep at no-loss. I haven't tried using a Paladin unit type to supplement this lineup, but if they could indeed resurrect demons of level 1-4 then they would be great to add (take out the archdemon?). As for his morale...

As for the Paladin character class skill (not the Paladin unit type) it would happily resurrect all losses for one stack of any type, but I found out that it still counts as losses in the record; that's why I stopped playing my Paladin game and played Warrior instead.

DGDobrev · #5 03-10-2010, 12:52 AM

Paladins will actually damage the demons rather than resurrect them

So for now, the only thing that would work for a demon lineup is Demonologists combined with Time Back and Resurrection spells. Healing also doesn't work on demons, Life Light will damage them too.

That really limits the options, but I guess when there's a will, there's a way

Metathron · #6 03-10-2010, 06:34 AM

I meant the paladin unit's talent, not the paladin hero's skill.

Did the resurrection spell work on demons in TL? Otherwise don't know where I got this preconceived notion that it doesn't.

loreangelicus · #7 03-10-2010, 07:24 AM

Yup! The Resurrection spell worked fine on demon unit types in KBTL, and I would assume that it still does in KBAP.

Heal and Bless don't work on demon unit types though as early as KBTL, so maybe that's where you got the notion that Order spells in general don't work on demons.

DGDobrev · #8 03-10-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metathron

I meant the paladin unit's talent, not the paladin hero's skill.

Did the resurrection spell work on demons in TL? Otherwise don't know where I got this preconceived notion that it doesn't.

Exactly - the paladin unit talent doesn't ress demons, it damages them instead.

impy · #9 03-10-2010, 01:13 PM

Now it just leaves one question unanswered.
Which character is more suitable - paladin or mage.
Paladin would be immensely helpful with ressurection, then higher leadership for demonologists, higher defence resulting in less ressurecting.
However, there are so many mage skills needed:
order magic 3 - ressurect up to level 4 units
distorsion 3 - time back, phantom, target
summoning 3
chaos 2+ - my preferred tactics if there are no archers left : fear the last unit and start ressurecting for 4 turns without worrying.
loads of mana available..
I think i stick with mage.
Now line -up will be : archdemon, demon, executioner, demonologists and then...again demonesses or little imps? Demoness is slow. imp is low level unit so it may screw up fear tactics

impy · #10 03-16-2010, 07:28 PM

I played a bit with demon line-up and it turned out to be quite interesting, it deserves few words I think. Currently level 30, things finally going smoothly, just defeated demetrius 3 guardians and got reha scroll.
Although not as extremely challenging as my previous attempts with single black dragon or ultimate challenge with knight, it will ask any seasoned player to come up with fresh tactics. Basically, no loss impossible game asks you to play a bit conservative, demon line-up will ask you to play super conservative due to lack of affordable ressurecting.
I mentioned before, at the beginning I kitted all the way to Shettera, did not do any quests on the way, just picked experience shrine in order to have enough leadeship for one archdemon, and back to debir to start the game. I did not allow myself to do any quests in new areas until I defeat their map guardians properly with demon line-up.
I made sure the following items appear easily accessible : demetrius, bow of souls, twinkling boots, belt of mana, chaos crown + death star, ressurection, turn back + demonologists.
Things get tough after Scarlet island, since
1) your demonologists are weak to ressurect
2) you don’t have enough intellect for powerful ressurecting
3) ressurect 3 cost 30 mana, time back on archdemons 30 mana. Your mana regen. is low, mana accelerator not maxed out, mana pool not great yet. So good bye mana hungry higher damaging spells, if you want to do ressurecting.
4) But, if you give up harsh spellcasting how are going to kill the opponent with mage with low att/def and leadership, early in the game?
That’s why I said this set-up is fairly challenging, try it. Up until level 25 it is certainly challenging. I picked mage for this challenge and never regreted this decision, paladin wouldn’t be able to keep up with ress.requirements.
Strategy: Basically, demons and executioners do just finishing jobs in order not to get hit much, demonologists hide, damage is done by demon summons from demons+demonologists, archdemons and hastened scoffer imps + pet dragon is used for mana acc & ball. I did not take elenhel, since i find attributes of bow of thousand soul too good to give up. Question was who would become target. Archdemons seemed an obvious choice, but a pain to restore, only demonologists or time back, but eventually it worked. Check out the screenshot, not bad for un-buffed unit,hm? Executioners turned out to be a bit of dissapointment for unit with highest leadership req. of all 4th level unit. Their terrifying ability gives a headache, cause it automatically makes imps a target. But imps are much better than demoness.