Is the main issue with 1C the lack of communication? Feedback = Consideration for us?

[Mysticpuma]

I have read many threads and although there are varying points of view, it seems that the main frustration is that veterans and new players alike just feel like they are not being listened to?

Many threads ask "Dear Luthier/Black6/1C, can you fix this? Why doesn't this work? I have found a bug? Online gaming? Multiplayer netcode? Why wont you answer this question? Why is the patch not here? Why have you not added this/that/the other?".....etc,etc.

Now as far as I am aware the complete opposite is evident from the RoF forums/community because they appear to have a group of developer's that interact with there community. Jason has been and is mentioned many times as someone the RoF community feel is taking onboard their suggestions and comments. It doesn't matter (well it does but go with me here) that things aren't fixed instantly, it does matter though that opinions, thoughts and suggestions appear to be given due consideration and there is feedback and appreciation of the customer enthusiasm and input.

I honestly believe that there would be considerably less irritation and hostility if the customers felt as though what they were saying was having an effect on the direction of bug-fixes and development.

I think in the real world (I know it's been over a year!) we can appreciate that software is never going to be released perfect. We also can appreciate that (from posts on here) that the release was 'forced' and this has ultimately have caused the community of CloD players to be dealt a rough hand.

I also think that most of us who have lived and breathed the original IL2 can see that CloD was 'born' prematurely as the pedigree that it comes from is second to none in the Flight Sim community (WW2 Combat of-course). For this reason I think so-many have been disappointed (I appreciate not all) as it was seen as the next step up in Graphics and realism for the WW2 Combat community. As it currently stands for many players (I appreciate again not all) the actual playability is really hard to accept as it takes so-many users 'fixes', tweaks, work-arounds to try and get a stable game that ultimately frustration sets in.

This is the point when they reach out to the people who made and sold the software to help them, to fix the broken parts, to make it as good as the original....to make it fun again!

This is also the point where it appears that the lack of feedback appears to be a two-finger salute at those who dare to poke their heads above the trenches and stare into the face of the developer's and ask a question about what went wrong.

Personally, I honestly do appreciate that a man/woman can't sit at a PC all-day answering inane questions that really don't make a difference to the development. I also appreciate that they can't sit there all-day and answer incredibly relevant questions to the development. I do though feel, like others, that the lack of communication feeds the animosity and anger because it is this that leads those who invested money to feel that the Developer's don't really care what problems there are....it's tough on us, what did we really hope to expect?

These are the reasons that the Friday updates (actually ANY updates) are trawled over in fine detail as we users hope to find a nugget of Gold amongst news of the sequel. The 'nugget of Gold' is the news that something will be fixed and that something is a direct result of customer input. The input and feedback of those who care about this software, it's sales, it's development, it's future!

The reason we are here is we have an interest, a passion, a hobby and that is why is galls us so much when suggestions to improve the experience we get from the software are just ignored.

Take bug-tracker for instance.

It would be great to hear feedback from the developers that they are working on/looking at the top-ten issues listed in bug-tracker. These are the TOP TEN issues for users and the top ten that surely the Developer's should consider first? These are the issues that users....the lifeblood of the Sim are crying out for to be fixed. If they weren't in the top 10 most popular issues, then there would be less importance on addressing them?

But those are the issues that lead the priority of the users in the community and these are the ones that really do require someone who is actually working in the development of the CloD software (not the sequel) to take time to come to the community and let us know what is actually being done and a 'realistic' timescale of when it could be fixed?

It really is disingenuous for a weekly update to say "we have nearly fixed this, we hope to release it soon" when they are actually dealing with the issues.

Could we not have something like this weekly or even every two-weeks?:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/

Trust me when I say that this is not a RoF thread, this is a thread I hope can stir a little passion in the Development team to understand that I (I hope we) realise it's difficult, realise there has been issues but that we are hear and waiting to support you as you battle through them.

Sitting in a room somewhere and saying if we don't answer any questions the baying crowd will eventually go away...well in a way, is probably true. But those who do go away most likely wont come back when you really do have something to say!

Please 1C, consider having worthwhile updates that tell us how development is going. I/(we?) really want to support you but throwing breadcumbs of information out at such sporadic intervals ultimately gives the impression that you really aren't interested in the community who support and follow you, and seriously that's' really not going to endear you to any of the older or newer customer's for CloD.

This took me 15-minutes to write....if you take into consideration how much I typed, just 50% of that as information of what you are doing once-per-week, would be a true inspiration to those who are steadily giving up hope of ever seeing CloD rise to the great heights the 1946 did.....but we still hang on in hope!

I hope I have written this as neither a fanboy or a whiner......just as an honest opinion that if we had more communication, it really would go a long way to make us believe we aren't being ignored and hung out to dry?

Cheers, MP

[von Pilsner]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

Take bug-tracker for instance.

It would be great to hear feedback from the developers that they are working on/looking at the top-ten issues listed in bug-tracker. These are the TOP TEN issues for users and the top ten that surely the Developer's should consider first? These are the issues that users....the lifeblood of the Sim are crying out for to be fixed. If they weren't in the top 10 most popular issues, then there would be less importance on addressing them?

But those are the issues that lead the priority of the users in the community and these are the ones that really do require someone who is actually working in the development of the CloD software (not the sequel) to take time to come to the community and let us know what is actually being done and a 'realistic' timescale of when it could be fixed?

It really is disingenuous for a weekly update to say "we have nearly fixed this, we hope to release it soon" when they are actually dealing with the issues.

Could we not have something like this weekly or even every two-weeks?:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/

Very well said, MP! I agree wholeheartedly...

[kristorf]

Very well written MP, say all that need to be said mucka

[Nitrous]

Originally Posted by mysticpuma

i have read many threads and although there are varying points of view, it seems that the main frustration is that veterans and new players alike just feel like they are not being listened to?

Many threads ask "dear luthier/black6/1c, can you fix this? Why doesn't this work? I have found a bug? Online gaming? Multiplayer netcode? Why wont you answer this question? Why is the patch not here? Why have you not added this/that/the other?".....etc,etc.

Now as far as i am aware the complete opposite is evident from the rof forums/community because they appear to have a group of developer's that interact with there community. Jason has been and is mentioned many times as someone the rof community feel is taking onboard their suggestions and comments. It doesn't matter (well it does but go with me here) that things aren't fixed instantly, it does matter though that opinions, thoughts and suggestions appear to be given due consideration and there is feedback and appreciation of the customer enthusiasm and input.

I honestly believe that there would be considerably less irritation and hostility if the customers felt as though what they were saying was having an effect on the direction of bug-fixes and development.

I think in the real world (i know it's been over a year!) we can appreciate that software is never going to be released perfect. We also can appreciate that (from posts on here) that the release was 'forced' and this has ultimately have caused the community of clod players to be dealt a rough hand.

I also think that most of us who have lived and breathed the original il2 can see that clod was 'born' prematurely as the pedigree that it comes from is second to none in the flight sim community (ww2 combat of-course). For this reason i think so-many have been disappointed (i appreciate not all) as it was seen as the next step up in graphics and realism for the ww2 combat community. As it currently stands for many players (i appreciate again not all) the actual playability is really hard to accept as it takes so-many users 'fixes', tweaks, work-arounds to try and get a stable game that ultimately frustration sets in.

This is the point when they reach out to the people who made and sold the software to help them, to fix the broken parts, to make it as good as the original....to make it fun again!

This is also the point where it appears that the lack of feedback appears to be a two-finger salute at those who dare to poke their heads above the trenches and stare into the face of the developer's and ask a question about what went wrong.

Personally, i honestly do appreciate that a man/woman can't sit at a pc all-day answering inane questions that really don't make a difference to the development. I also appreciate that they can't sit there all-day and answer incredibly relevant questions to the development. I do though feel, like others, that the lack of communication feeds the animosity and anger because it is this that leads those who invested money to feel that the developer's don't really care what problems there are....it's tough on us, what did we really hope to expect?

These are the reasons that the friday updates (actually any updates) are trawled over in fine detail as we users hope to find a nugget of gold amongst news of the sequel. The 'nugget of gold' is the news that something will be fixed and that something is a direct result of customer input. The input and feedback of those who care about this software, it's sales, it's development, it's future!

The reason we are here is we have an interest, a passion, a hobby and that is why is galls us so much when suggestions to improve the experience we get from the software are just ignored.

Take bug-tracker for instance.

It would be great to hear feedback from the developers that they are working on/looking at the top-ten issues listed in bug-tracker. These are the top ten issues for users and the top ten that surely the developer's should consider first? These are the issues that users....the lifeblood of the sim are crying out for to be fixed. If they weren't in the top 10 most popular issues, then there would be less importance on addressing them?

But those are the issues that lead the priority of the users in the community and these are the ones that really do require someone who is actually working in the development of the clod software (not the sequel) to take time to come to the community and let us know what is actually being done and a 'realistic' timescale of when it could be fixed?

It really is disingenuous for a weekly update to say "we have nearly fixed this, we hope to release it soon" when they are actually dealing with the issues.

Could we not have something like this weekly or even every two-weeks?:

http://riseofflight.com/blogs/

trust me when i say that this is not a rof thread, this is a thread i hope can stir a little passion in the development team to understand that i (i hope we) realise it's difficult, realise there has been issues but that we are hear and waiting to support you as you battle through them.

Sitting in a room somewhere and saying if we don't answer any questions the baying crowd will eventually go away...well in a way, is probably true. But those who do go away most likely wont come back when you really do have something to say!

Please 1c, consider having worthwhile updates that tell us how development is going. I/(we?) really want to support you but throwing breadcumbs of information out at such sporadic intervals ultimately gives the impression that you really aren't interested in the community who support and follow you, and seriously that's' really not going to endear you to any of the older or newer customer's for clod.

This took me 15-minutes to write....if you take into consideration how much i typed, just 50% of that as information of what you are doing once-per-week, would be a true inspiration to those who are steadily giving up hope of ever seeing clod rise to the great heights the 1946 did.....but we still hang on in hope!

I hope i have written this as neither a fanboy or a whiner......just as an honest opinion that if we had more communication, it really would go a long way to make us believe we aren't being ignored and hung out to dry?

Cheers, mp

+1

[Codex]

While the genre is totally different, I love the Stalker series of games, and the new company, Vostok games, which was created by developers of the now closed Stalker II project have been very open to the public about whats going on with their new game Survarium.

http://vostokgames.com/en

[nearmiss]

Mysticpuma

You, I and many others have been loyal for a very long time to Il2 series. The dev team is up to their ears in whatever their focus is at the current time. Luthier and the dev team are doing their thing.

We have received some positive improvements with the recent beta patch.

When users and potential users aren't informed that is a problem mostly for developer, because you can't sell what you can't encourage people to buy.
The best way to encourage buyers is to communicate with good news frequently.

The TD keeps working on the IL2, and it continues to improve. I think if the TD team could improve the AI to a BOB II WOV standard and FMB to CFS2 standard. It could very well be all we could want with periodic updates to the graphics.

Air combat game genre with high quality realism appeal is an expensive process, and takes highly competent devs to produce. Then you have to allow for all the config issues with PC platform.

The console platform is easier, because all the config issues are resolved. What you see is what you get with a little squeaky toy remote. LOL

[Revvin]

I've not posted much here, I've been playing the IL-2 franchise since its first release but I'm really disappointed at the way this hotly anticipated addition to the franchise has been handled. Its not helped that the forums here have been massively trolled and certain members given far too many chances to behave only to return and carry on trolling.

I pre-ordered the collector's edition in the hope that this sim would give me the enjoyment the past titles in the franchise have but I was sadly mistaken. I'm a patient guy so I thought I'd wait and see what a few patches can do, I'm still waiting. I've gone from having hope that this sim can be fixed to all but giving up hope now and writing this off as the end of a truly wonderful simulation series.

Its true that other titles have had horrible launches, I buy most sims as they are released so know the feeling of waiting for games like Falcon 4.0, RoF or Lock On to be patched but their poor releases got patched and here we are over a year after release with CloD and thhere is still no light at the end of the tunnel, we're not just a few bugs away from making it into a stable release with a platform to expand into the next few years we're still waiting for fundamental problems to be fixed.

I've not posted much here because I wanted to wait and see, there was not point in feeding the negativity here or giving the trolls more ammunition but I feel like I'm at the end of the road with CloD and I'm looking towards other sims now to fill the void.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Revvin

I've not posted much here, I've been playing the IL-2 franchise since its first release but I'm really disappointed at the way this hotly anticipated addition to the franchise has been handled. Its not helped that the forums here have been massively trolled and certain members given far too many chances to behave only to return and carry on trolling.

I pre-ordered the collector's edition in the hope that this sim would give me the enjoyment the past titles in the franchise have but I was sadly mistaken. I'm a patient guy so I thought I'd wait and see what a few patches can do, I'm still waiting. I've gone from having hope that this sim can be fixed to all but giving up hope now and writing this off as the end of a truly wonderful simulation series.

Its true that other titles have had horrible launches, I buy most sims as they are released so know the feeling of waiting for games like Falcon 4.0, RoF or Lock On to be patched but their poor releases got patched and here we are over a year after release with CloD and thhere is still no light at the end of the tunnel, we're not just a few bugs away from making it into a stable release with a platform to expand into the next few years we're still waiting for fundamental problems to be fixed.

I've not posted much here because I wanted to wait and see, there was not point in feeding the negativity here or giving the trolls more ammunition but I feel like I'm at the end of the road with CloD and I'm looking towards other sims now to fill the void.

That's too bad, I'm sorry to hear such things. Even in the state the game is in, I can have huge fun with it...you should post your system in your sig, maybe someone will have an idea for you to try.

[baronWastelan]

It's all part of the WWII USSR experience:

Comrade Pilot crash lands battle damaged airplane behind enemy lines. Pilot spends days, without food or sleep, working his way back to home base, killing 2 fascist invaders with his bare hands along the way. The next day after reporting back to his squadron, he is arrested, stripped of all rank, and sent to a penal battalion to clear minefields with a folding shovel. No explanations. It's the Soviet way, comrade. Next stop, glorious mecca of workers, Moscow.

[Walrus1]

I think the problem here has been a combination of things.

The biggest issue is technical. When the game came out it had serious technical problems that prevented it from being what both developers and consumers hoped it would be. (And expectations were really, really high).
Fixing these problems has been a long, difficult process apparently full of unexpected delays.

The second issue is communications. Part of this originates in problem one, the technical glitches. Timetable for fixing things keeps getting longer, so best estimates for fixes are wrong and some users get bitter or mean about it. This makes the developers reluctant to say anything because of the toxic forum environment. And yes, uncontrolled trollers/whiners had free reign on this forum for far far too long and really poisoned the air.