Lacking of 'Soul' in IL2 'offline missions/campaigns?

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by GF_Mastiff

sorry for the question but what is DGEN?

DGEN if I am correct refers to a Dynamic Generated Campaign

[_ITAF_UgoRipley]

Originally Posted by Ctrl E

where and how do i download the Slovakia and Bessarabia maps?

They are both included in the 4.09 beta patch released some time ago.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by dflion

Being an ‘offline’ mission/campaign builder I disagree with several recent threads that the current IL2 lacks the ‘soul’. Having just completed my ‘Long nose Focke-Wulf – Eastern Front Campaign’ I have really enjoyed working with the new maps (Slovakia and Bessarabia) which have some ‘mods’ introduced on the airfields – you can take-off and land two or three flights of aircraft at once in the same direction. Some of the airfields have the classic ‘crossover’ layout with circular connecting taxiways – similar to many British BOB airstrips.
You can see that Oleg is experimenting with getting more aircraft into the air at the same time and this helps at the interception point, especially when intercepting bomber formations. This ‘mod’ increases the historical accuracy and ‘Soul’ of the current game. You also do not need to ‘que-up’ for landing.

There certainly needs to be a lot more ‘trigger points’ in the new BOB SOW flight sim, which would increase the current ‘Soul’ of the game in both ‘online’ and ‘offline’ modes, for example:-
• When you lose a Flight leader, somebody else immediately takes over issuing orders with authority.
• If you are flying in No.2, No.3 or No.4 position, you have more interaction with your flight e.g. if your aircraft has run out of ammo or fuel, been severely damaged or you are wounded, you can report that you are returning to base, without copping a pasting from your Section leader.
• When you return to base you can taxi to an ‘interactive refuelling/rearming point’ and then take-off again and return to the same action to help your comrades. (you may be stopped from taking-off if you are wounded, or your plane is too badly damaged)
• You have a better ‘interactive map’ and access to original written orders within the cockpit e.g. If you are a flight commander you can change your map waypoints ‘in-flight’ as the air battle changes and refer to original written orders (you may have forgotten something?)
• While flying the weather may suddenly change, which means issuing new orders to your flight.
• There is ‘a moral factor’ built in. As a leader, are you leading your flight by making the right decisions and winning (are your pilots happy with your leadership?). If you are not leading effectively, you may be transferred or demoted.
• If you are a Wing Commander or equivalent, you have more ‘tactical influence’ in the outcome of the air battle – you can call on help from different Squadrons and their commands if the situation changes.( They may not be able to come and help you?)
• You need to complete a rigorous flight training course (including air navigation, operating in different weather situations, air to air and air to ground practice firing) before being accepted into an active Squadron.
• Lack of proper Squadron logistics (lost due to bomb damage) e.g. petrol, ammo, personnel, planes etc. can effect how many planes you can get into the air.
I am sure Oleg is working on a lot of the points I have mentioned above which will launch the flight sim to a new level both in ‘online’ and ‘offline’ modes, giving it even more ‘Soul’.
DFLion

The more missions you build some things will come to mind...

Building missions is too tedioius

The tools in the FMB are not efficient. i.e.,The slide tools on the left and right are too small to click on.

It takes far too long to set up the timing in a mission. If you want different things to do different things within your missions it is a nightmare getting it all setup. You don't need flak guns going off until the player benefits by whatever their importance is too the mission.

The comms for commanding your flights are lousy, if not downright incompetent. Try to call off your flights when they're attacking an airbase with ground targets set. Those planes will fly and attack until they are out of weapons and bullets. In the mean while, the flak will pretty well have destroyed the lot of them.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I've said this before - several years ago.

A good OFFLINE mission is only about the players enjoyment, nothing else.

It is important to have elements comprising the mission to be available at the time and place they will make the mission more immersive and enjoyable to the player.

--------------------------------------------

The above said...

If you really enjoy building missions you can have a grand time with the old MSFT CFS2 mission builder. It has triggers, events, event areas, timing, etc.
The AI is lousy, but there are workarounds for building some very excitiing and fun missions.

We don't just need triggers in a good FMB in the BOB SOW. We need a complex set of progamming tools that will facilitate mission building as well as triggers, events, event areas and object grouping tools.

The old CFS2 mission builder is probably the best there is and it could use a lot of improvements in it as well. Lousy as this sounds, if we had an FMB exactly equal to the 8+ year old CFS2 mission builder we would be a quantum leap above what we have now.

If Oleg really addresses the Offline game we could very get the best mission builder ever built, but it he backs off and pushes hard on the Online game... I doubt it will be much improvement over what we have now.

[DuxCorvan]

It was around the release of AEP, that offline gaming became the poor sibling in Il-2/FB, and I'm still to see that MG does real effort and improvement in that area of the game experience. If not for Starshoy and/or Lowengrin, all the patient mission builders (FMB is an awful tool) and others, offline gaming would be completely dead by now.

[dflion]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

The more missions you build some things will come to mind...

Building missions is too tedioius

The tools in the FMB are not efficient. i.e.,The slide tools on the left and right are too small to click on.

It takes far too long to set up the timing in a mission. If you want different things to do different things within your missions it is a nightmare getting it all setup. You don't need flak guns going off until the player benefits by whatever their importance is too the mission.

The comms for commanding your flights are lousy, if not downright incompetent. Try to call off your flights when they're attacking an airbase with ground targets set. Those planes will fly and attack until they are out of weapons and bullets. In the mean while, the flak will pretty well have destroyed the lot of them.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I've said this before - several years ago.

A good OFFLINE mission is only about the players enjoyment, nothing else.

It is important to have elements comprising the mission to be available at the time and place they will make the mission more immersive and enjoyable to the player.

--------------------------------------------

The above said...

If you really enjoy building missions you can have a grand time with the old MSFT CFS2 mission builder. It has triggers, events, event areas, timing, etc.
The AI is lousy, but there are workarounds for building some very excitiing and fun missions.

We don't just need triggers in a good FMB in the BOB SOW. We need a complex set of progamming tools that will facilitate mission building as well as triggers, events, event areas and object grouping tools.

The old CFS2 mission builder is probably the best there is and it could use a lot of improvements in it as well. Lousy as this sounds, if we had an FMB exactly equal to the 8+ year old CFS2 mission builder we would be a quantum leap above what we have now.

If Oleg really addresses the Offline game we could very get the best mission builder ever built, but it he backs off and pushes hard on the Online game... I doubt it will be much improvement over what we have now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for raising all these points nearmiss, there certainly is room for improvement in the current FMB, though I still think it is great tool for the flight sim.
I have never used the old CFS2 mission builder - IL2 Sturmovik very quickly took over from CFS2 and CFS3 for me when it was released. Let's hope Oleg has had a look at the old CFS2 mission builder?

I have found the more I use the FMB the better I get at it (I suppose this is like anything you do). One of the 'big driver's' for me in using the FMB is to create historical and semi-historical campaigns based on my interest in WWII aerial history and what really happened.

Very luckily and thankfully I can still share with my father, who is now 86 years old, his WWII flying experiences. He flew the Tiger Moth, Ryan, Anson, Hudson, Ventura and B24 Liberator during WWII in the Pacific with the RAAF. He is facinated with IL2 and particularly liked the development pics that Oleg recently released of the Tiger Moth and Anson.

Lets all hope that Oleg will produce another masterpiece with better FMB tools and better game immersion while flying - I am sure he is trying to do this - he really is 'the soul' of this amazing flight sim.

PS I have attached a picture of my fathers WWII RAAF Liberator and crew (he is third from the left)

DFLion

[Avimimus]

I personally always felt that small touches like having no "hud"/text on the screen and perhaps being able to get in and out of your aircraft upon landing would help. It is difficult though.

Better AI might also help: Most engagements in real life were fairly short with most of the aircraft breaking off and heading back to base fairly early. They tended to be much shorter than in Il-2.

If the AI could retreat if it loses too much energy, or gets separated from other allied aircraft it would be much more realistic. Most pilots flew home with much of their ammunition remaining (and experienced pilots would be likely to have been smart enough to conserved some ammo for the way home <- even on those sorties in which they managed to score a kill)

[Feathered_IV]

Until there is the ability to actually save your mission while in-flight, very few of us will ever be able to get the most out of the single player experience.
The ability to save will enable us to fly longer range missions, without sacrificing work and family. We'd even be able to trade save points among ourselves
Without it we are confined to short hops and last-gen stopgaps like warp and timeskip.

[dflion]

This is a very good suggestion Feathered_IV. For most of us, work/life balance is a big thing today.

Personally, I like to try and finish each mission in one go - you can get totally immersed in successfully completing it, especially when you are leading.

When the missions get more sophisticated in BOB SOW, I would say this would be a mandatory option.

DFLion

[Feathered_IV]

It'd be a great thing to have save points that can be shared. A sort of, "Here's me in an impossible situation. Plane shot to hell and six 109's on my tail. But I made it home. Download this save-spot and see if you can do any better..."

All kinds of great moments could be captured replayed and shared. And the added flexibility it would give to movie makers...

[dflion]

Another great idea Feathered_IV - I just saw Anton looking at the forum, hopefully notes are being recorded.
DFLion