Should a purchase?

[grahamwookie]

Hi,
Im a true believer in the CoH world, it still rocks and i even like this game too... more stuff in it though.
Can anyone answer these questions for me to make up my mind:

1. Do you have engineer units, like in CoH, where you can repair vehicles?
2. Towing arti etc do the logistics of moving units around play a role in much of the game play?
3. Can you build defences, sandbags, wire, tank traps when and where you like (is this sp or multip features)?
4. arti, i love the visual effects in CoH and the impact on the environment too, is this in MoW?
5. I played the demo and found the infantry control different to CoH and slightly worst, do infantry automatically find cover, and can you group units and use hotkeys to send orders?

If you can make up my mind with some answers id would be very grateful.

thanking you.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by grahamwookie

Hi,
Im a true believer in the CoH world, it still rocks and i even like this game too... more stuff in it though.
Can anyone answer these questions for me to make up my mind:

1. Do you have engineer units, like in CoH, where you can repair vehicles?
2. Towing arti etc do the logistics of moving units around play a role in much of the game play?
3. Can you build defences, sandbags, wire, tank traps when and where you like (is this sp or multip features)?
4. arti, i love the visual effects in CoH and the impact on the environment too, is this in MoW?
5. I played the demo and found the infantry control different to CoH and slightly worst, do infantry automatically find cover, and can you group units and use hotkeys to send orders?

If you can make up my mind with some answers id would be very grateful.

thanking you.

1:You have both units you can buy that come with anti personnel & anti tank mines,& anyone of your guys can repair vehicles that have not been completly destroyed,so long as they or the vehicles are carrying Repair tool boxes.

2:Most,but not all guns can be pushed along by the men in them,so long as you have a full amount of people in guns,1 man can operate,at a slower rate,a gun or vehicle but in guns you cant move them without full crew.Many vehicles in MOW can tow guns which obviously makes them get to the action quicker & usualy safer.So yeah towing does make a difference,also lovely animation of the gun crews sitting on the gun bar attached to the truck or other vehicle as it drives along.

3:Yes you can although in Single player depends on mission,you can also buy lorries of different type,some containing loads of different ammo type for your various tanks & guns,some containing loads of mines(both anti personnal & anti tank)about 200 or so of each,& another lorry with loads of obstacles like tank stopping terrain the metal crosses,you know the ones,also barbed wire,& certain units like rifle men & snipers & scouts can place there own terrain like foilage & sandbags.

4:To say does arti fire have a visual impact in MOW is an understatement,i once blew up a fuel depo,& the whole screen erupted in fireballs & explosions,problem with arti in MOW though is its so spectacular,you really need a decent PC to see it best as its the main part of the game that tends to cause abit of lagg,also its so deadly(although artillary takes the longest to reload so is not generaly fire that often),that alot of people in multiplayer turn off Art to stopped people just using art all the time,say bombarding people spawn points.

5:Infantry most of the time are preaty clever at going to ground,or finding cover(unless you have the do not move without my say so button on),also you have to methods of control as im sure you know,point & click control & direct control,so at least you have a choice there,& the controls are only a little fidley because you have such a vast array of things to do & or use.

Conclusion:Ive played both COH & obviously MOW & there is no comparison,MOW is 100 times better,in preaty much everyway,far more realistic,far less arcady like COH,also the Multiplayer on MOW,is probably better than the single player,something which i doubt you would say about COH,so yes buy it mate,or your regret it,maybe not today maybe not tommoror,but soon,lol.

P.S.Also the amount of different units you can have in this game,particularly in multiplayer,beats COH to a standstill,54 different units in combat multiplayer to choose from for the Germans alone,& that jumps up to as much as 93 when using say All units 2.0 MOD thats now out.Also very soon there releasing a patch with a fifth Army for multiplayer plus new maps,the Japanese.

[Nokturnal]

Just a few things to add to what Morgoth said..

Repairing isn't quite the same as you will be used to in CoH - It is more realistic and logical here. Tanks don't have health bars, a well placed AP round to a weak point of a tank/vehicle can result in it blowing up instantly, or if it hits the tank treads it can be immobilised and you will need to repair that section of the vehicle before being able to move again. Same with if your turret gets destroyed, and AT guns can be disabled without being destroyed then must be repaired before firing.

Towing AT guns and other artillery with vehicles is vital in both SP&MP matches, with multiplayer you'll need to move them around to avoid the enemy figuring out where you are shooting from, and in SP you may have a limited time to set up defenses before the first enemy wave and towing the artillery is extremely useful.

As Morgoth pointed out, the visuals from destruction in MoW can't even be compared to CoH, explosions look spectacular, the destroyed buildings/vehicles make great cover and enhance the battles. Not to mention the direct control mode which allows you to, for example, decide which chunk of the building you need removed in order to have a clear shot at the enemy.

Just one more addition to the infantry notes, the AI is clever enough to know when to chuck an AP/AT grenade, or dive out of the way of an enemy thrown grenade, and you will often find they will look after themselves. It's worth pointing out that it has a great cover system too, just selecting infantry and moving your mouse over a piece of cover will display an outline of the soldier to indicate what direction they face and it lets you know they won't be killed instantly as they have a bit of cover...But again i should mention the realism in this game, you could lose a soldier with just 1 shot, or perhaps a spray from a MG, unlike CoH there is no health bar that slowly regenerates, your soldier has to stop and apply bandages if he is nearing death (AI does this automatically when not in the heat of battle), but if he has a helmet and some body armor, he will be more resistant to damage.
Units are not placed in fixed squads like CoH and you can't reinforce them by simply returning to base. Each soldier is individual, with their own inventory, ammo supply, grenades(AT/AP/Molotov). Yes you can place them in squads and assign a # to them, squads are limited to 8 units, but these can include vehicles/art/infantry so you can group together a couple of tanks with some infantry to help take care of any stray infantry without having to turn your turret on the tank.


I played CoH before i had heard of MoW, but since i picked up MoW and started playing i simply cannot return to play CoH...Again i will have to agree with Morgoth's description, CoH is just too dumbed down and arcade-like.
The lack of realistic features almost ruins the immersion and you don't feel as though you've accomplished as much as you can in MoW. In real war infantry don't have infinite ammo, they don't heal/reinforce by returning to base and standing within a raidius..and tanks do not have a health bar so they know when to flee to avoid being destroyed.

To sum up, Men of War is a very realistic and jaw dropping experience. You may be frustrated until you start learning how to micro-manage your troops efficiently, but after that you will realise how much this game has to offer.
Everyone i know who has given it enough time, has said they have never played a game quite like it - So i would highly suggest you give it another shot, even if you just spend a bit more time on the demo first.
Which level does the demo allow you to play by the way?

[Hypertonic]

I have yet to see any method of resupply in SP. The ammo system is completely broken. You have to manually load each soldiers ammo via the horrible inventory system, taking up most of the whole playing time. The AI has infinite ammo, unlike you. Need more than 20 shells for that Howitzer? Sorry, ammo isn't in God's plan for the Reich. It's so bad it should have been cut from the game and that's coming from someone who likes an ammo system.

As for the "realism" that some speak of, I don't see anything realistic. An utterly useless gun IRL like 40mm 2pdr can easily penetrate the frontal armour of a Pz4G. The damage model is supposed to be the one thing that the game gets right, yet fails miserably.

The reviews of this game generally far overexaggerate its strengths and fail to mention weaknesses.

[Hypertonic]

Also, contrary to fanboy attempts to play it down, the voice acting is an embarassment and painful, the most absurd accents and tones I have ever heard in any commercial product by far. There can be no doubt that the dev team did it all themselves and that some of them have never heard a german or russian.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Hypertonic

I have yet to see any method of resupply in SP. The ammo system is completely broken. You have to manually load each soldiers ammo via the horrible inventory system, taking up most of the whole playing time. The AI has infinite ammo, unlike you. Need more than 20 shells for that Howitzer? Sorry, ammo isn't in God's plan for the Reich. It's so bad it should have been cut from the game and that's coming from someone who likes an ammo system.

As for the "realism" that some speak of, I don't see anything realistic. An utterly useless gun IRL like 40mm 2pdr can easily penetrate the frontal armour of a Pz4G. The damage model is supposed to be the one thing that the game gets right, yet fails miserably.

The reviews of this game generally far overexaggerate its strengths and fail to mention weaknesses.

No offence mate but you dont know what your talking about,i aswell as many other players have coped well with ammo amount & reloading in the single player,so you must be doing something really really bad or your terribly slow,& this is from a 40+ gamer,also a British 2 pounder gun is more than capable of taking out a Panzer IV tank even from the front armour as Panzer IV's werent that brill armour wise hence the side panels that they added later on(also to protect from shaped charges,ie bazooka's & the like),so you are again wrong mate.

You also forget that amour penetration is taken from distance so a 2 pounder gun could probably damage a Tiger from VERY close range which is something alot of people dont take into account.

[Hypertonic]

Someone over 40 should have better grammar skills than a 6 year old, don't you think? I'm not going to argue physics with someone that makes things up contradicting widely documented facts and can't use a period and spaces.

The point is that in the game a MkII should not be consistently one-shotting a PzIV from "medium range" in game terms when the PzIVG can take all day to penetrate the MkII's ultra thin armour. Yet, far larger shells can hit at a right angle and bounce off. The damage is random. Having played Theatre of War, which is far more realistic, the MoW model pales in comparison.

Anyone who has a lot of spare time and nothing better to do and doesn't mind spending half the playing time hunting every crate and body for ammo scraps and still not being able to get enough to keep all artillery and suppression equipment operating for more than 5 minutes (but the AI just keeps shooting forever without rest) can certainly cope fine.

Not to mention that there are only generic ammo types anyway, such as "SMG ammo" and "MG ammo" that pop into any gun in the respective class. At least CoH didn't try to bullshit about ammo. The 7 year old Sudden Strike 2 system is still far better, streamline and simple enough for the AI to use.

[Nokturnal]

It's been said numerous times, but i shall repeat it here - MoW was never meant to be 100% realistic, as you have stated, that has already been done by ToW. You are wasting time if you are comparing the two, the games are supposed to be separate.

There are still many features that make this game more realistic than CoH and others of the sort. Atleast tanks don't have health bars in MoW.

The distances in which battles are fought is a clear indicator that MoW has sacrificed a bit of realism for fun, and perhaps a larger target audience.
Can you seriously blame them for wanting to make more money?
I am a big fan of ToW (mainly the second) but it's got a much smaller fan base than less realistic RTS titles.
Not every game has to contain the same amount of realism simply because the company has done so in a previous game.

Now just to clear up a few of your misconceptions.

There is no infinite ammo for the enemy, on numerous occasions i have seen them run up to my dead soldiers and steal their gun when they run out of their own ammo. I have also noticed it anytime i loot corpses, those who survive longest always have less ammo left.
Speaking of ammo, if someone like you who feels it "takes up most of the playing time" is complaining even when the ammo types are generic, why on earth would you want them to specifically label all different types and then require people to spend even more time loading up the inventory? Obviously you are just looking for things to complain about now.

If you are forever running out of ammo then you are simply not playing properly. I don't think i ever needed to re-supply an ATG or tank during any of the SP missions. Perhaps you need to use direct-control a bit more?
Oh and incase you didn't know...You can select a squad of 8 soldiers, approach a crate with a healthy supply of ammo and a simple right click will distribute the ammo between all selected soldiers.

As for the voice acting remark - Now you are the one making things up.
Everyone who has played the game, hell probably even the developers, are aware and have accepted that the voice acting is a joke.
Nobody tries to defend it, most people are able to tune it out if it bothers them.


If the game is such a dissapointment, why are you bothering to complain about it? It seems like you are just going to disagree with anything anyone else says, or simply ignore them based on a typo or lack of grammar.

[Zeke Wolff]

Originally Posted by Hypertonic

The point is that in the game a MkII should not be consistently one-shotting a PzIV from "medium range" in game terms when the PzIVG can take all day to penetrate the MkII's ultra thin armour.

Ultra thin armor? 76mm of frontal armor isnt ultra thin. The only way the Germans found to knock out the Mk.II easily, was to use their Flak18 88mm anti-aircraft guns. The Ausf. G that was introduced later in the desert campaign, could knock out the Mk.II as well from long ranges, and so could the Pz.Kpfw. III with the long 50mm gun, but until these two types arrived in the desert (and Rommel only received a few of each type) the Mk.II was indeed the best tank in the desert war.

Originally Posted by Hypertonic

Not to mention that there are only generic ammo types anyway, such as "SMG ammo" and "MG ammo" that pop into any gun in the respective class. At least CoH didn't try to bullshit about ammo. The 7 year old Sudden Strike 2 system is still far better, streamline and simple enough for the AI to use.

Sure, it is easy to make each smg to use different kind of ammo type, like .45" for the Thompson, 7.62mm for PPSH1 etc, but to be honest, I really don´t care about this. As long as a 88mm gun can´t use 75mm ammunition, I´m happy. If we´d several different type of ammo for most of the small arms, you would spend most of your gaming time searching corpses trying to find the correct type of ammunition instead of actually playing the mission.

~Zeke.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by Hypertonic

Someone over 40 should have better grammar skills than a 6 year old, don't you think? I'm not going to argue physics with someone that makes things up contradicting widely documented facts and can't use a period and spaces.

The point is that in the game a MkII should not be consistently one-shotting a PzIV from "medium range" in game terms when the PzIVG can take all day to penetrate the MkII's ultra thin armour. Yet, far larger shells can hit at a right angle and bounce off. The damage is random. Having played Theatre of War, which is far more realistic, the MoW model pales in comparison.

Anyone who has a lot of spare time and nothing better to do and doesn't mind spending half the playing time hunting every crate and body for ammo scraps and still not being able to get enough to keep all artillery and suppression equipment operating for more than 5 minutes (but the AI just keeps shooting forever without rest) can certainly cope fine.

Not to mention that there are only generic ammo types anyway, such as "SMG ammo" and "MG ammo" that pop into any gun in the respective class. At least CoH didn't try to bullshit about ammo. The 7 year old Sudden Strike 2 system is still far better, streamline and simple enough for the AI to use.

Hardly want to argue with a would be elitest moron who thinks he is better & smarter than most,but alot of british tanks were almost invunerable to most of germany's early tanks,ie,panzer iv's & panzer iii's & so on,but there big draw back was weak firepower,so it shouldnt surprise you that much that a panzer iv is sometimes struggling to penetrate many of british tanks not that thin armour.

P.S.You moan about my grammer lol,yet seem to not notice in your write up that you have put MKII,MKII of what,MK is short for Mark,& the number the version,so of what type of tank or vehicle you talking about,could be anything lol,so before you critisize,correct your own error's alright mate.