Will there be an online community for COD after BOS?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Destraex

I see COD is $5 at gamersgate and was thinking of getting it for friends at that price.
Using fusion4 of course. But now I am thinking with BOS out in a few months is it worth picking up and learning?

I love BOB theatre and BOS theatre in comparison is fairly boring to me.
I have only just got interested in COD again after that horrid launch and the myriad of bugs that even still exist... rear view mirror facing the right way yet?
So the interest is there. Question is will the community be there?

First off .. CoD for $5 is a no brainer at this point. By all means a very good choice. CoD has managed to pull itslef out of the trash can and back in the Pantheon of great sims.. but it will always be limited unless TF can find a way to eat with it becuase it is too much work and they will not be able to compete with the likes of 1CGS and RRGDCS doing this in their spare time. It takes nothing away from what the have done because in the minds of many CoD would not be what it currently is without TF... even with the last official patch from 1C.

Originally Posted by DUI

Good decision, Destraex! I am looking forward to seeing you and your friends in the BoB skies!
To me BoS will only become a topic when it is released in another 6 months. But as this might be round about the time when the Team Fusion patch 5.00 with its new theatre (Mediterranean?) and planes (Bf 109 F, Spitfire V?) might come out...
In any case a very good time for combat fligt simmers!

I think that BoS is going to start making waves come Tuesday. In 6 months unless there is some kind of global disaster .. BoS, with it's limited theater and all is going to shake up the flight sim world.. like it hasn't been shaken up in over a decade.. I guarantee it. The Alpha Early Release slated for Tuesday is the sim at 32% .... Come February of 2014 we should be seeing something closer to the final product.. but in any case it is going to be a game changer come final release

Originally Posted by CWMV

Thats just nonsense.

I don't know about that... but I understand where both of you are coming from .. and I agree in part with both of you but I think that CoD is only going to go so far for the reasons I mentioned.. Unless TF can find a way to get paid for their time and work... there will only be so much they can do because they have to eat .. they have to live.. they have to work.. and there are so many hours in the day .. especially when you have a family.

I have no idea what Ilya is going to do in DCS... but BoS is coming and it is going to make a wave.. not a splash.

[SlipBall]

all good points BC

[MB_Avro_UK]

Originally Posted by Chivas

COD will evolve with TF just as it would have with a dedicated developer, only slower, with a part time community TF development crew.

Oleg and Luthier's development team built a very complex sim engine, that was being designed for years of feature/content upgrades. Oleg wasn't able to finish the sim engine, but everyday TF is getting a better and better handle on its complexity, and its almost limitless potential.

The COD game engine currently has no rival in its capabilities, but it will be interesting to see if the ROF game engine can be upgraded by the BOS developers. I see no reason why it couldn't, as all game engines are just a bunch of arranged 1's and 0's.

Good post.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Chivas

....The COD game engine currently has no rival in its capabilities, but it will be interesting to see if the ROF game engine can be upgraded by the BOS developers. I see no reason why it couldn't, as all game engines are just a bunch of arranged 1's and 0's.

The secret is, and always was, to arrange those pesky one's and zeros to get the most out of the available computing power.
As it seems the foundation of the CoD engine is so sound that, after cleaning out the bugs, it offers the possibility to realize Oleg's dream of a multi purpose, high fidelity sim engine.
As the problems with expanding software mostly come from the built in limitations, the 777-1c- devs have quite a lot to do the reach the possibilities of the CoD engine from their RoF base.
Lets see how the reach their goal, that far it looks good.

[Pips]

With all the effort that Team Fusion has put into this game, COD has gone ahead in leaps and bounds. To my mind it's arguably the most enjoyable WWII sim out there.

And heaven only knows what these guys are capable of developing in the next 6 months. Yes, BOS will definitely be on my 'to get' list. But it'll face extreme competition from COD when it finally does come out.

[Chivas]

I'm struggling to enjoy COD, maybe its just too realistic for my sense of gameplay. At times I used to get annoyed at the damage model in IL-2 where a spit could stay in the fight after taking a very solid burst. Realistically in that situation the fight should have been over with the spit pilot bailing or try to find a way to get away, and nurse his aircraft back to base.

I expected COD's much more realistic damage model, to make this happen, but its exactly the opposite. Now quite often I use up all my ammo to take down an AI aircraft. That said its much harder putting bullets on target in COD than it was in IL-2.

In all the gun camera videos I've ever seen, I've never seen an extended dogfight. I'm sure there were, but I've never seen them, probably because the gun camera only starts when the guns are fired. doh!! I wonder if our flight sims have become unrealistically hard or if I need a more Hollywood style sim. Its not like we are bad pilots with thousands of hours of flight time, and shooting experience in combat flight sims.

I'll be interested to see if BOS, gives me a more satisfying gameplay experience. All else being equal, BOS's implementation of the Oculus Rift, could be the deciding factor in which CFS I fly most, .

[MB_Avro_UK]

Gents,

BoS will be better 'out-of-the-box' than CoD.

[DUI]

Originally Posted by Chivas

In all the gun camera videos I've ever seen, I've never seen an extended dogfight.

Just a guess but probably most of the gun camera videos were made at a later stage of the war. In this case the planes did not fire with small machineguns anymore but had devastating cannons. I think getting some cannon rounds into the target brings down planes more quickly.

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

BoS will be better 'out-of-the-box' than CoD.

I think every game is better out-of-the-box than CloD was at the time of its release. The interesting question is if BoS will have the quality at release date which Clod has achieved in the current Team Fusion version (maybe already TF 5.00 in late spring). Looking at the current screenshots and videos BoS will have a hard time graphic-wise with its already rather outdated graphic engine. Naturally, cost-wise as well with CloD being nearly free ($ 10, often only for $ 5) in comparison with the high investment of $ 100 for BoS. The important part will be the general flight feeling and the physic and damage models. To me a major aspect will be its capability to allow for big campaign missions and a huge amount of objects in the air and on the ground - making it a real simulation and more than a dogfighting game. To my knowledge a strong weakpoint of RoF - so let's see how BoS will perform.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by DUI

Just a guess but probably most of the gun camera videos were made at a later stage of the war. In this case the planes did not fire with small machineguns anymore but had devastating cannons. I think getting some cannon rounds into the target brings down planes more quickly.



I think every game is better out-of-the-box than CloD was at the time of its release. The interesting question is if BoS will have the quality at release date which Clod has achieved in the current Team Fusion version (maybe already TF 5.00 in late spring). Looking at the current screenshots and videos BoS will have a hard time graphic-wise with its already rather outdated graphic engine. Naturally, cost-wise as well with CloD being nearly free ($ 10, often only for $ 5) in comparison with the high investment of $ 100 for BoS. The important part will be the general flight feeling and the physic and damage models. To me a major aspect will be its capability to allow for big campaign missions and a huge amount of objects in the air and on the ground - making it a real simulation and more than a dogfighting game. To my knowledge a strong weakpoint of RoF - so let's see how BoS will perform.

I think the vast amount of attacks were ambush in nature
at close range 70-80m, people should hone this style.

My take on Clod out of the box was just a master piece, with some issues needing attention. This became evident only after the fact, when trying the EU release with a strong machine. Every patch took a little bit of life away from it in various ways. There will never be another flight sim that can compare to it. We had our chance at this but most of us hesitated to do a up-grade, including me, it took me awhile.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Chivas

COD will evolve with TF just as it would have with a dedicated developer, only slower, with a part time community TF development crew.
Oleg and Luthier's development team built a very complex sim engine, that was being designed for years of feature/content upgrades. Oleg wasn't able to finish the sim engine, but everyday TF is getting a better and better handle on its complexity, and its almost limitless potential.
The COD game engine currently has no rival in its capabilities, but it will be interesting to see if the ROF game engine can be upgraded by the BOS developers. I see no reason why it couldn't, as all game engines are just a bunch of arranged 1's and 0's.

Therin lies it's limitation.

Originally Posted by robtek

The secret is, and always was, to arrange those pesky one's and zeros to get the most out of the available computing power.
As it seems the foundation of the CoD engine is so sound that, after cleaning out the bugs, it offers the possibility to realize Oleg's dream of a multi purpose, high fidelity sim engine.
As the problems with expanding software mostly come from the built in limitations, the 777-1c- devs have quite a lot to do the reach the possibilities of the CoD engine from their RoF base.
Lets see how the reach their goal, that far it looks good.

I don't know about that.. I think the implementation of BoS was a choice.. not a non choice based on engine limitations.. I think, and especially after I have now seen the Alpha at 32% .. that this engine can do what CoD does .. but in reality it doesn't have to do what CoD does.. it just has to do what it does well enough.. and it does just that and it will only get better.

Originally Posted by Pips

With all the effort that Team Fusion has put into this game, COD has gone ahead in leaps and bounds. To my mind it's arguably the most enjoyable WWII sim out there.
And heaven only knows what these guys are capable of developing in the next 6 months. Yes, BOS will definitely be on my 'to get' list. But it'll face extreme competition from COD when it finally does come out.

I don't think so. Competition yes.. but extreme? No... and even that will fade over time. BoS will face more competition form DCS:WWII than from CoD .. As far as the masses go and establishing a large community is concerned, CoD's days are numbered unless it gets picked up by someone. Even if it was someone who could pay TF a livable wage to work on it.. but in their spare time, unless they are all either single guys with no significant others and no lives to speak of, or a lot more guys than there are (and that becomes problematic as well.. too many workers..) there is only so much that TF can do and time is not on their side as far as the masses go. That is the reality CoD is facing. It takes absolutely nothing away from the work they have done.. and it will probably be around for a long long time.. but it will not be a major player in the genre outside of a cadre of dedicated fans.

Originally Posted by DUI

Looking at the current screenshots and videos BoS will have a hard time graphic-wise with its already rather outdated graphic engine. Naturally, cost-wise as well with CloD being nearly free ($ 10, often only for $ 5) in comparison with the high investment of $ 100 for BoS. The important part will be the general flight feeling and the physic and damage models. To me a major aspect will be its capability to allow for big campaign missions and a huge amount of objects in the air and on the ground - making it a real simulation and more than a dogfighting game. To my knowledge a strong weakpoint of RoF - so let's see how BoS will perform.

I agree with some of this ... but the graphics of BoS are pretty darned good.. Not dated at all IMO .. just different from CoD. Mind you it is still a WIP by a paid team that has hundreds of man hours a week to devote solely to it's development. I think that at this point though.. TF needs to consider coming up with some more aircraft.. not a lot.. but even one .. that is not a variant of something already in the sim yet done to the same or very close quality .. if not better.. would send a message that would speak volumes about the potential for CoD's future and TFs role in it beyond the great work they have already done.


This is just my opinion .. and it accounts for what it does... I have no crystal ball .. but BoS even in it's current state is a very interesting piece of kit and it counters some of the basic things that CoD did very well very well.