IL-2:BOP DLC poll

[jaywinner]

"other" i just want to customize my flight stick

[MorgothNL]

Originally Posted by DoraNine

2. Fix the performance and armament discrepancies on the German and
American planes.

3. Straighten out the "joystick" issues. The interface is BAD.

I agree!
But I hope these wont be part of any DLC, but will just come with a game update. because these are not extras, but more like fixes.

If you have a xbox btw, joystick issues will not be straighted out, it is MS's job

[Widar]

Originally Posted by DoraNine

There's only three things I'd like to see -- and I don't see any of them in the poll. They would be:

1. Online Campaign Co-Op

2. Fix the performance and armament discrepancies on the German and American planes.

3. Straighten out the "joystick" issues. The interface is BAD.

"Fix the performance and armament discrepancies on the German and American planes."

How true. When I made the poll, I did not know this however. Seeing some really weird things happening online regarding the performance of aircraft that I know a little bit about I wanted to know what was going on. After having done an insane amount of testing, as evident in one of my threads, I can say that you are absolutely right about point no. 2.

There really is so much potential in BOP and so much that is good in BOP that it really is a shame to have to conclude this. I believe that the US aircraft performance will be fixed, but I don't believe that anything will be done about the German aircraft, since I have not seen any remark from the developer on this. Really very disappointing, ah well.

Point no. 3 will also be addressed in one way or another, but point no. 1 will have to go to a sequel I think.

[DoraNine]

Don't get me wrong gents -- I'm not biased towards any country's machines, because I have an appreciation and interests for anything that flys and shoots -- but these Russian planes scoot around the skies like TIE Fighters and the Spifires and Hurricanes remind me of X-Wings. It's kind of driving the selection of planes you run up against in to the ground -- which makes the game tedious. Geeh, do I feel like trying to kill other La-5Ns and Hurricane IIs tonight in my Hurricane II -- like I did last night, and the night before that -- or do I watch TV? There's alot of times when I jump into a fight on any of the modes and the list looks like this:

Hurri II
Hurri II
La 5N
Spit IX
109 G6
La 5N
I-153
Spit II

For anyone whose introduction to these aircraft comes through playing this game - like my 12 year old nephew, he believes the Russians and the British were the only people who knew how to build an airplane. Its kind of silly. Hopefully some things like this will be smoothed out in the next version.

As for the DLC -- I guess I'd vote for a German Campaign. What could be more challenging than flying against all the "superior" Russian and British machines

[fuzzychickens]

Originally Posted by DoraNine

Don't get me wrong gents -- I'm not biased towards any country's machines, because I have an appreciation and interests for anything that flys and shoots -- but these Russian planes scoot around the skies like TIE Fighters and the Spifires and Hurricanes remind me of X-Wings. It's kind of driving the selection of planes you run up against in to the ground -- which makes the game tedious. Geeh, do I feel like trying to kill other La-5Ns and Hurricane IIs tonight in my Hurricane II -- like I did last night, and the night before that -- or do I watch TV? There's alot of times when I jump into a fight on any of the modes and the list looks like this:

Hurri II
Hurri II
La 5N
Spit IX
109 G6
La 5N
I-153
Spit II

For anyone whose introduction to these aircraft comes through playing this game - like my 12 year old nephew, he believes the Russians and the British were the only people who knew how to build an airplane. Its kind of silly. Hopefully some things like this will be smoothed out in the next version.

As for the DLC -- I guess I'd vote for a German Campaign. What could be more challenging than flying against all the "superior" Russian and British machines

But one shouldn't expect the american planes to turn like a 109 and esp like a la5/7.

That would not be realistic. For example, the P-51 will not and should not turn like a 109 at low speed simply because the P-51 wing design sacrifices lift for its ability to cut through air (laminar flow) and save fuel. It also weighs more (empty) than the 109 in addition to producing less lift.

Yea, some errors will be corrected I think regarding the weight on these planes and should improve the P51 some and the FW190s too.

Was the P-51 worse than the 109 in reality? Hell no, just in turning circles and climb. It spanks the 109 at high altitude with its speed and has huge range advantage.

What do you think the outcome of BOB would have been if the Germans had P-51s that had the range to escort bombers from France to Britian and back? Things could have turned out different for sure.

Like others have said, in flight sims, no one values their life - so turn fights are the norm. Hence, good turners seem superior in these games.

In reality, turn fights in WWII were not as common as suprise boom-n-zoom tactics centered around situational awareness and maintaining speed. Pilots who avoided furballs tended to live longer.

[Axe99]

Originally Posted by Widar

It is interesting to see that the thing that only 1.67% voted for was the one that was made available as DLC: allied single player missions/campaign.

I don't count the two DLC aircraft, because usually these pre-order extra's are made available about 1 month or so after release.

I know that Anton Y. said that the DLC was made months ago, but still: know thy customer...

Of course, who cares what 60 people voted for, but still...

Hey Wildar, while internet forums are useful, they're hardly a good indication of the customer base - you normally find only a _very_ small proportion of customers on game forums, and they're usually quite unrepresentative of the broader population who bought the game. So I wouldn't get too worked up by any differences between the poll and what 505 do - they have broader access to things like multiplayer server/achievements/trophy stats, that give them a much better idea of how everyone is playing the game.

[tbtstt]

At present my first request for DLC (or rather a patch) is to unlock all the aircraft for offline use - when I feel like I'm getting the full game I paid for then I'd like to see DLC...

...In terms of DLC a SP mission creator would be fantastic. I don't know how easy that would be to implement, but it would be incredible if they could do it as the scope of the game would be massively increased - especially if they allowed SP missions to be shared!

More aircraft would be great, though I think I'd rather see full cockpits and detailing for the aircraft in game before they add any more.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by Axe99

Hey Wildar, while internet forums are useful, they're hardly a good indication of the customer base - you normally find only a _very_ small proportion of customers on game forums, and they're usually quite unrepresentative of the broader population who bought the game. So I wouldn't get too worked up by any differences between the poll and what 505 do - they have broader access to things like multiplayer server/achievements/trophy stats, that give them a much better idea of how everyone is playing the game.

On topic: Axe, in the upcoming DLC you would like to see…

Off topic: Are you trying to discourage people with your post from voting or airing their wishes on forums?

Regarding your post: How somebody “plays” the game and what they would like to see in it, or (dis)like about it are completely different things. They cannot be measured by the online data you refer to.

Axe said: “and they're usually quite unrepresentative of the broader population who bought the game” – and you have hard irrefutable evidence that undisputedly proves this to be the case in 100% of the cases in 100% of the times or are you just repeating something you read somewhere?

"Hey" Axe, to be sure, nothing you mentioned in your post is not known to me already, still thanks for your kind and enlightening post. There is, however, no way for anybody of telling for sure if the BOP 1C forum members are unrepresentative of the focus group that it was aimed at, that have bought the game or that still MIGHT buy it. Word of mouth is also very important for long term sales, the sales life cycle of a product as you will. Don't forget that potential customers nowadays also frequent forums of games of which they are not sure whether or not to buy them. Not everybody buys a game on the release date. The question is: at which audience is BOP aimed. According to data from some game developers (i.e. Gearbox CEO), it is stated that more people still play single player than multiplayer. Even that more people played Halo 3 single player than online. The source for this data is the same source as 505 has access to. Halo 3 titles were, according to this source, also sold in numbers to customers that have no online connection and who therefore do not offer online data on achievements, multiplayer stats etc. And there are also players who don’t care about getting silly console achievements. So if all this is also the case with BOP, then 505 is in the same position as Gearbox, which undermines your statement. Then we are back at focus grouping again. Now there is much data out there on games development, focus grouping, marketing etc. to read up on. But like opinion polls, how much of it is actually a reliable source in real life? There are so many games that disappoint financially as a result of this “witchcraft”. Let’s for simplicity sake say that there are roughly the following kinds of game categories with respective audiences:

1. Fast sellers with a short term sales life span. Money on these must be made in about 2-3 months, after which nobody buys it on account of bad press, negative word of mouth, errors, shallowness etc. Usually these are fast paced, low intelligence, high controller skill, high fun factor teenager oriented games. These games are primarily aimed at the average teenager masses, that quickly move on to something new after a play through.

2. Fast sellers with a long term sales life span. Money on these will be made until the sequel comes out. Usually these are fast paced, low intelligence, high controller skill, high fun factor teenager oriented games. These games are primarily aimed at the average teenager masses, that keep playing a game until another a sequel/big title is released.

3. Average sellers with a medium term sales life span. Money on these will be made from a medium sized focus group that will play the game over a certain period of time. These quasi niche games are of medium game play difficulty and appeal to a certain audience, not the masses.

4. Slow sellers with a long term sales life span. Money on these will be made from a medium/small sized focus group that will play the game over a long period of time until the sequel comes out. These niche games are of medium/high game play difficulty and appeal to a certain niche audience, not the masses.

5. Bad sellers with a very short sales life span. The game was either a result of bad focus grouping, bad marketing, many game errors etc. or an unhealthy combination of these.

The question is at which type of people is a game aimed (focus group)? It is safe to say, as far as console games go, that the really big budget titles aim for category 1 and 2 and if things go bad they end up in category 5. These big budget titles don’t need forums that badly, but still make use them, since they have their game aimed at the masses that don’t frequent forums and for them the online data you refer to in your post is a lot more useful. They will sell in any event (cat. 1, 2) or maybe not (cat. 5). Now the real challenge are the niche audience games, they fall in category 3 and 4 and if things go bad they end up in 5. Category 4 and 5 games have special target groups, special focus groups. And concerning these, the forums offer insight in what some of their hard core fans want, especially for category 4. Now it seems that BOP was aimed at the following: category 1 (Arcade mode), 3 (Realistic mode) and 4 (Simulator). If so, than what is stated on this forum is most relevant for the BOP realistic and simulator mode, since the category 3 and 4 customers will move on when the game does not live up to their standards. If BOP was aimed primarily at category 1, than I fully agree the responses of the forum members are not that relevant. The thing about forums is: an important part of the people that frequent the category 3 and 4 game forums of a certain game are among the vociferous hardcore fans of a game, or they are people that take the trouble of letting the developer know what they like or do not like. Not many people take the trouble to do that, but it would be folly to call them unrepresentative when you have no measurable way to state that this is so for sure.

[Stanrosquain]

Frankly it does not bother me to pay 30 € (or 40 €) for a DLC containing the cockpits of all planes in the games (bombers and figthers) and a view of the turrets at the first person for bombers.
Unfortunately I don't think it will happen one day, I don't think developers and publishers would design DLC as complex of fear that it does not sell

[Ancient Seraph]

Originally Posted by Stanrosquain

Frankly it does not bother me to pay 30 € (or 40 €) for a DLC containing the cockpits of all planes in the games (bombers and figthers) and a view of the turrets at the first person for bombers.
Unfortunately I don't think it will happen one day, I don't think developers and publishers would design DLC as complex of fear that it does not sell

Sadly, I agree. I think they'll take into account the problems of BoP and try not to make the same mistakes again in the sequel, but I doubt they'll make all the cockpits, correct every flight model, etc etc.