BSM Rank and Class System

[R@S]

OK then, I'll start coding the bugger this weekend. I will have to see if I can find a way to implement some of the suggested things, but I'll try. I'll release it through Flügenweb or a$$ möde

[R@S]

I had some spare time at work today and managed to write about 500 lines of code for this new project. I've made some minor changes to simplify matters and I hope it won't piss you off too much

I made it so that ALL skills in the selected class only costs 1 point, think of it as you already had your basic training and you only need some minor adjustments to improve the skill. But for the skills outside your class I made the following cost and divided them into 2 groups, Parameters and Skills:

Parameters:
Health = 4
Energy = 4
Eyesight = 4
Hearing = 4
Strength = 2
Stamina = 2
Dexterity = 2
Agility = 2
Reaction = 2
Intelligence = 4

Skills:
Shooting = 2
Sniping = 4
Gunfighting = 2
HeavyWeapon = 4
Throwing = 2
HandToHand = 4
Camo = 2
Sapper = 4
Medic = 4
Stealth = 4

Maybe we should change it so that the attributes costing 4 costs 3 instead?

Since I haven't touched a role-playing board game in more that 25 years, you need to explain things to me as you would a total n00b Otherwise you'll never get your ideas through, yes, I'm that daft

EDIT: I forgot to say, when implementing this into the mod, it will cause some problems with the outsourcedINI mod and i might be forced to remove it. But it needs some testing to make sure and it might only affect a small part of it, time will tell.

[Kyle]

and I hope it won't piss you off too much

R@S, don't worry about upsetting me. I've survived one on one critiques with some pretty brutal professors in the past.

It's late. I'm tired. So this will be kept short, but sweet...

Parameters:
Health = 4 Yup!
Energy = 4 I'd make this cost 3 points. In my experience, increasing one's energy is pretty easy; go out and do some light exercise. Of course, I think what "Energy" here means is something a bit more profound, like physical energy WITH emotional vigor (sort of like morale), so I'd raise the cost a little more for that.
Eyesight = 4 Yup!
Hearing = 4 Yup!
Strength = 2 Yup!
Stamina = 2 Yup!
Dexterity = 2 Yup!
Agility = 2 Yup!
Reaction = 2 Yup!
Intelligence = 4 Yup!

Skills:
Shooting = 2 Yup!
Sniping = 4 Perhaps drop this to 3 points. Out of all of the skills that I rank by difficulty, none can be more challenging in scope, mental pressure and physical acuity than Medic. As challenging as being a sniper is, I think being a Medic is harder still.
Gunfighting = 2 Yup!
HeavyWeapon = 4 Perhaps set to 3, and for the same reasons given for "Sniping" above.
Throwing = 2 Yup!
HandToHand = 4 Yup!
Camo = 2 Yup!
Sapper = 4 I'd lower this cost to 3. While there's no question that being a sapper is very difficult, I think it's somewhat safe to say that it's not as challenging as putting back together a broken body. Ironic that.
Medic = 4 Yup!
Stealth = 4 Yup!

A good list. Let's see how it works!

By the way, what is the "outsourcedINI" mod that you referred to?

Good night!
Snore!
Kyle
June 30, 2010

[R@S]

I stayed up too long last night and coded some more, the leveling up system is now complete. Now comes the next stage, deciding when the leveling up should happen. I though locking it to the CGL would be the easiest way to go, but have changed my mind. I think it would be best to tie it to the killcounter which is independant from things that might cause problems. Here's my preliminary thoughts:
lvl 1 Kills 20 (+20)
lvl 2 Kills 50 (+30)
lvl 3 Kills 90 (+40)
lvl 4 Kills 150 (+50)
lvl 5 Kills 210 (+60)
lvl 6 Kills 280 (+70)
lvl 7 Kills 360 (+80)
lvl 8 Kills 450 (+90)
lvl 9 Kills 550 (+100) //Maybe all the next level ups should be at a 100 kills?
lvl 10 Kills 660 (+110)
lvl 11 Kills 780 (+120)
lvl 12 Kills 910 (+130)
lvl 13 Kills 1050 (+140)
lvl 14 Kills 1150 (+150)
lvl 15 Kills 1310 (+160)
lvl 16 Kills 1480 (+170)
and so forth.
This can go on until all attributes has reached their limit, the player can keep leveling up as long as he keeps killing.

Now I need to check where the attribute cap for the skills are, I know that the hearing cap is at 200, but where the rest of them are I have no idea.

As it is now, the player will get 5 points to spend at every leveling up, and he can save point for the next event. I had a though that I could also add a point if the player completes a specific mission, or place a few easter eggs that will give a point. I also thought of giving the player a chance to get another point by having a small bonus mission on the level up screen, but I'm to busy for that and it would take too lang to make all those new missions.

outsourcedINI is a mod guineapig made, check your 7.62\ini\ folder for a outsourcedconfig.ini file for more info. It makes a few hard coded setting open to adjustments

EDIT: I did some quick testing and it seems that the cap is much higher than I first thought. Check this out:

But since the stats are too high, it does some weird things to the game. The amount of time it takes to raise and shoot is acually a negative number, like -2.14 seconds. Look what happens when I select single shot "shoot until dead":

Since shooting is now a negative number, it fires 100 shots in less than a second. Talk about a hail of bullets

[R@S]

Here's the first test version of the new Class System. If you don't wanna ruin your current game, copy the whole game folder to another folder and run it from there(I dunno if this works with the Steam version).

Then copy these files to your \7.62\Quests\mods\RAS\ folder and start a new game.

Enter your Kill Book and choose a class.

Once you've killed your first 20 enemies, enter the Kill Book again and select "Level Up"

I haven't put a cap on the skills yet, you can raise it as high as you wan't. Try to keep an eye on where the game engine starts to have problems with the high skill level. As of now I'm thinking of capping it at 200, but if some skills can be raised without problems I might increase the cap for those skills.

Class System v1 beta

Have fun

R@S

Oh, and one more thing, I've added a cheat to make the testing easier. Just open the console and write throw cheatlvl and you'll be given 5 points to spend. Keep in mind that you can do this as many time you like, but don't spend them all at once, there's a limit to how long a dialog can get, and if it's too long it'll CTD.

[Kyle]

Wow!

You're fast!

Me likes you FAST!

Don't kill me when I say this, but during the day as I was working I was wondering if there should be a combat skill other than sniping that should also be more challenging than 2 points per level, and I came to the conclusion that Reaction time should cost 3 points per level, instead of 2.

My reasoning is that combat is an extremely stressful experience, and if one's doing something like clearing rooms, and it's dark, dusty, etc., etc., reading the situation wrong can lead to all kinds of misery, like killing someone who shouldn't be dead.

Now, I don't think it's possible to mistake a target for someone else in the game, but these kinds of situations are a REAL life concern, so...

If you agree, perhaps in your next version raise it to 3?

Alright, got to download, backup my old files, and start a new game.

Can't wait!

And that "bug" with single fire! Perhaps it should be changed to "Apocalypse Fire" when the character reaches the right level?

I can't imagine how thick the tracer rounds would be if you were firing at full auto!

[R@S]

hehe, yeah, once I know exactly what I wanna do, there isn't much that can stop me from doing it.

I'll consider raising the cost for Reaction to 3, but I need more time testing the system to make my final judgement. The situation you're describing is, at least by the game engine, associated with the adrenalin which is tied to the experience level of the player. If the adrenalin level gets too high, the bullet spread gets very wide and civis might get caught by those stray bullets. I'm not sure, but I think the Reaction skill controls how fast you raise your weapon. But it's easy to check by using the "cheatlvl" function, I'll do that tonight when I gget home.

While working I had a few other ideas, here's the best of them:

Perks! What you call "Apocalypse Fire" I call the "Beserker" perk. For a short period of time, 1-2 minutes, the skills that causes this "bug" will be raised and the player will be able to cause mayhem. Other perks I have in mind is "Quick-Draw McGraw", "Eagle Eye" and "Tank". Feel free to tell me not to do this, or give suggestions on other perks that might be fun to have.

[Kyle]

R@S,

Cool!

Just to be clear, I've NEVER made adjustments to the outsourced.ini file. So, if this mod does interfere with said file because a player has changed its default settings, I wouldn't know it.


SUGGESTIONS

Clarify
Once I opened up the Kill Book, it took me a bit of clicking to figure out what was going on in order to Level-Up. I honestly feel that with a few more words, such frustrations can be dramatically reduced and enhance the enjoyment of the mod. With that, here's my first suggestion...

(1) Offer the following options when Leveling-Up:
Class-Based Parameters and Skills
Class-Based Perks (if implemented, see below for more)
All Other Parameters
All Other Skills


Avoid abbreviating Parameters and Skills whenever possible. If abbreviations have to be used due to display limitations, then I'd certainly always supply an option entitled "Key to Abbreviations."


(2) In the Read Me, I'd consider adding the following directions to clarify and ease things for those new to the mod:
Important Points Regarding the BSM Class-Based System
(1) The player must start a new game. Feel free to backup the old Saves.
(2) Select one’s desired avatar.
(3) Adjust the avatar’s beginning Skills.
(4) Start the game.
(5) After the very first and unavoidable dialogue interaction is over, one will need to access their avatar’s Inventory and then right-click on the black-covered “Kill Book” in the lower window of the Inventory screen. Select “Show kill statistics” and then select your desired class type.
(6) Every time a leveling-up has been earned the player will be notified by an in-game message.
(7) To spend one’s newly earned points, once again go to the Inventory screen to gain access to one’s “Kill Book.” Right-click on it and select the appropriate options...
( Rinse, wash, and repeat. Oh, and HAVE FUN!


Perks
My feelings towards this are pretty mixed. It might be "easy" to generate some of these, but there are inherent risks of having them. Such as...

...will the AI have access and the capability to use them?
...will there be enough of them to create a "universe" where they comfortably fit? If there's too few of them, then they'll seem contrived, and if there's enough of them, then they're going to be compared to Fallout's superb implementation of them. And, if that happens (and it will), then it's highly likely that in spite of our best efforts, we're going to fall far short. Fallout is simply one of the best games ever made, and to be held to such high expectations...!

If we go the perks route, then I'd say it's imperative to have enough to avoid feeling contrived. So, then we're stuck being compared to Fallout's system.

My advice? If a perks system is going to be created, we might as well draw as much as we can from The Master, and carefully consider what can be "ported over" from Fallout. They're not only extremely well designed, but are also usually quite humorous in a very dark and twisted way.

I have to wonder if development time would be far better spent by investing it in creating new equipment, and/or new missions/campaigns, and/or do both.

Perhaps the AI are free from having any perks until the player decides to start purchasing them for his own/comrades' avatars?

Going the perks route is, I feel, going to open up a whole can of worms.

That said, I do have a few suggestions for perks:
(1) Berserk should be kept confined to its classic definition, which is for hand-to-hand combat. Traditionally it should temporarily elevate Strength, Reaction Time, Hit Points, grant High Pain Threshold (the ability to temporarily "shrug off" damage that's received), an increase in the number of melee attacks that one can make, and the ability to be "immune" to being shocked by the sudden appearance of enemies or by the number of enemies. All of these sound great, but there should be a severe penalty after the Berserker's Rage wears off, such as terrible fatigue, suddenly being shocked by the loss of the bonus Hit Points along with any Hit Point loss due to receiving damage, and being lethargic (one's movement is reduced AS WELL AS the number of normal attacks one can make), and one's ability to react are also penalized till the "exhaustion" wears off and one's Parameters return to normal.

(2) There's a number of ways that one could explain the sudden ability to fire off extra rounds. Here's mine...
“Lucky” Misfire—whether Jerry-rigged or purely by happenstance, you have a knack at getting your weapons to fire off extra rounds at just the right moment.
There would be NO bonuses to hitting one's target. All that this perk would do is temporarily increase the firing rate of one's weapon. Firing a single-round would produce two rounds, burst fire would release 30% more rounds than before (rounded up), and automatic fire would be increased by 50%. The length of time that this perk would last is 1 min. The drawback (and I strongly feel that there should always be drawbacks when designing perks so as to keep them interesting and balanced) would be that for the following minute, one's weapon would be overheated, and would have a lower rate of fire than normal. This would mean that during this minute that semi-automatic fire would be unavailable (this would also apply to bolt-action rifles), burst fire would be reduced by 30%, and automatic fire would be reduced by 50%. Also, overheating will increase the odds of jamming by 25% and misfiring by 25%. So, one would have to apply this perk wisely.

(3) Extra-Penetration would temporarily allow rounds to pass more easily through all types of materials, including bodies. I don't even know how feasible this is, because just like BE5 before it, it seems that 7.62 only allows for a tiny degree of round penetration around doorways and windows. I've yet to see a round penetrate through a body and inflict damage to another person who is behind that one. I'm not going to supply any particulars regarding this perk as I'm imagining it because if it's not even possible I don't want to waste the time detailing it. If it is possible, I'll throw some details out...

That's all for perks ideas from me for now. Again, perhaps it'd be more advantageous to lay a perks system aside, and instead see how equipment enhancements and missions/campaigns could alter the game for the better (especially if the Ecomod is tightly integrated)...


Equipment Enhancements
I really like a lot of the suggestions made by Archangel which can be found here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...87&postcount=5

I don't necessarily agree with all of the details, but the general direction for most of his ideas are well thought out. I also feel that a lot of these could be done with but a few cosmetic changes to already available equipment.

For example...
Darken an ordinary canteen, and maybe put a decal on either side of it an image of a bendable drinking straw (like the ones available at nearly any restaurant). This specialized canteen allows its user to be able to drink from a connected rubber hose that can be clipped on fabric near the neckline of its wearer. When its wearer gets thirsty, a drink of water can be acquired by sucking on the end of the hose near the wearer’s mouth. Allows one to replenish 10% of one’s depleted stamina and keep one’s hands on one’s weapon.

I'd also consider reducing how quickly drinking from an ordinary canteen completely refreshes one's Stamina. In my opinion, it's way too fast. A swig from a normal canteen should, at most, restore 25% of one's Stamina, so several swigs would be needed to get back up to 100% if one was severely exhausted.


Mission/Campaign Ideas
I've got a campaign idea that I think would be very interesting to create for 7.62, but I'd like to avoid sharing it publicly, as it would do a lot to remove the element of surprise and story/character development. If you're open to programming a Campaign whose storyline/events are plotted out by someone else (such as myself ), let me know and I'll PM you a very basic plot that I feel would be pretty interesting to experience.


Bugs
The game was quite unstable, especially for the first 45 minutes of the game. I encountered numerous CTD's, virtually all of them related to my avatar being shot dead. Note that I did NOT have any comrades as part of my squad at the time. These CTD's were the first ones that I've ever had while playing 7.62.


Alright, I hope that you've found this report detailed enough to be truly helpful.

I REALLY enjoyed the amount of control that I now have as a player in advancing my desired Parmeter and Skill levels. There weren't any "immersion" issues because I was able to justify within my own mind why the skills I selected were advancing.

The next time that I'll play (probably tomorrow night) I'll use the cheat code to give myself extra points to see what might happen.

Good Night (or should I say "Gute Nacht" oder "Guten Morgen?"),

Kyle
July 1, 2010

[R@S]

Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll make the whole system easier to understand, promise. But it's still only the first beta, and I have already improved it a bit. I've changed the starting map, you won't start in Puerto Viejo anymore. I was planning to start with the "Choose Class" dialog where I'll explain how it works. The player will then be told to find Alexey Rezvi to continue the game. I'll also give the player some starting equipment depending on what class is selected, like camo kit when scout, sight if sniper and so forth. I think that'll increase the "feeling" of the class system and might entice people to choose other classes than scout or sniper. But it's still only in my head so feel free it offer more of them, hm, suggestions

The Outsourcedconfig mod might be removed, it interferes with some of the latest game settings. I've contacted guineapig about it, and if we're lucky he might still have the source code for it. Then I can deactivate the stuff that is incompatible but keep the stuff that isn't, some of which is really important to minimize the frustration(like civies taking one shot and everybody gets hostile)

I think I'll skip the perks, since I'll be working on adding maps from Reloaded and making new missions, that'd take too much time, and I only have a limited amount of that. Your campaign ideas might be very useful when doing that, so feel free to send me what you've got, my own creativity is pretty dried up on that front by now.

Your CTD issues isa common one, and I think it might have to do with some folder being set to read-only. Since there are some blood layers added when shot, and those might be the cause, try turning off blod in your game settings(E6Config.exe, the first tab, Advanced button). Let me know if this fixes it.

And please don't speak German, I only know a few words and there might be some misunderstandings Please, I'm a Swede, and not very proud of that fact

[Kyle]

R@S,

You're welcome for the feedback; it's the very least that I can contribute for the return that we're going to get from this thing.

I didn't realize just how ambitious your plans are in regards to what you're trying to accomplish, which is pretty substantial already! Porting over Reloaded's maps? Wow! I'm practically ready to worship you man!

Moving the game's starting point to a new location with an "Introduction to the New System" mission is a very smart move because of its consideration of the players' needs. Being well educated is always important, and absolutely necessary to enjoying a game as sophisticated as 7.62 (which is going to get raised even further more with this mod).

I applaud your decision to start players out with an item that's closely related to their class selection. Not only will this be a great "hook" to tempt players to try one class over another, but I also strongly feel that it will almost guarantee repeated replays of the game because of the desire to simply try out what the other classes have to offer. Brilliant!

I didn't realize that the Outsourcedconfig.ini did so many important things for the game. My fingers are crossed that the source code is still preserved so as to make your life easier.

Let me thank you in advance for your willingness to consider my campaign suggestion. I promise you that it has what I feel is a pretty interesting twist not just story-wise but also in regards to strategic considerations.

I'll probably need several days just to get the basic plot done, as my nephew's birthday is tomorrow (quite a drive to get there too) and Sunday is the Fourth of July, with big family plans for that.

Yeah, I feel "so free" with my government working so hard to keep piling on trillions of dollars' worth of bank debt onto the backs of us ordinary citizens! Woo-hoo! Please keep giving me, my children, and my grandchildren, more debt that isn't ours to be enslaved to! There's just so much to be happy about!

Sorry for the therapeutic rant...

Alright, time to go. Keep your eye on your PM. I hope that its contents will bring a smile to your face.

Yours,
Kyle

July 2, 2010