Equilibrium Mod

[Fatt_Shade]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

So, Fatt_Shade, I'm probably just misunderstanding. But you keep saying there isn't 'just more'. I don't have the Mod installed so you have more information than I do.

All the changes are listed above, each one shows skills being enhanced, and none show them getting weaker. Can you please explain what penalties exist that offset these bonus'?

Yes skills are enhanced, but to degree +1Att/Def/Int early game of 1%2 lvl of Heroism, Resistance, Linguistic and cost same as before. It grows linearly=balanced. You get some more rage/mana/scrolls (read below for that balance). And for getting weaker skills there is skill distribution in respective tree`s - to get Bloodthirst you need 7 other skills, for Resurrection you need 6, and for High magic only 4.
As for after battles bonus rewards all except runes were obsolete for me, finished game with 30 mana wells, 300 crystals, and with 50 mana/rage potions. i used only runes and them after 40th lvl, cause didnt know what to take any more. Didn`t used rune mages, so bonus for their talents wasn`t in question ( i had Princess, Darkness, Undead and Insanity sets so realy didn`t know which combo to pick

Originally Posted by Jah

That's my whole point. The game is currently pretty well balanced in that warriors are stronger in the early game, while mages become more powerful in the late game. If you're going to give warriors some extra bonuses in the mid-/late game, then in order to maintain balance, you need to either give them penalties in the early game, or give mages a similar boost for low levels. Otherwise you're just making warriors stronger in relation to mages, which is not what I would call "balancing".

I played Mage impos with this mode so i`ll tell you form that example : for bonus rage/mana from Anger/Magic skills they are evenly distributed you get more mana scrolls for Mage, then rage for Warrior. So it`s really easier for Mage early then before (for achieving medals) , and Warrior get some bonus later in game with +6Att from Bloodthirst. It`s not as strenghtning Warrior, as is helping Mage early, both classes get some bonus.
Extra runes helps out all classes, no difference there.

As for making higher score then other players without this mode it`s not possible. You cant finish game in less then 7 days, with all quests, and 60+ lvl cause it doesn`t affects exp gain, or traveling time. So you cant get more points in the end=no cheating. This mode only give you easier way to no loss if you really want that 0 casualties on high score screen. I`m defending this mode because finished game with both Warrior and Mage impossible/no loss in original game, with preety much same early mid game (royal thorns trackers for sumoning frenzy, inquisitor archmage for suporting until Rusty and hope for some dragons, from Verona 90% players go paladins/rune mage phantom tactics, or go with boring 2 repair droid 1 guard-those arent units, they are kitchen appliances . . . pretty much generic). Now i tried this to have some fun and different unit tactics : girl power with Fauns and Ents, full Orc army for adrenalin frenzy, dwarf army with alchemist set-got it with Warrior and it`s hilarious, hordes or droids rolling across battlefield . . . for demons there are no bonuses except +1morale, but they are still bitches to resurrect.
To sum it up who dont like changes - dont use this mode, if you wnat to try different things with some units you havent used before, go for it.

On different note, i found where to change unit talent for rune mages and in sessions/orcs/orcs.rar runemage.lng file, and it scared me. Does that needs to be done for any unit that have active talent ? Holy s..t !!!
If yes, i`m dropping my idea for bonus from runes, to other units.

Edit : I found 2 more errors,.
1) In neatness skill same as Anger remove 100 , 200, 300 from skill.txt this way Mechanic get 100% bonus from lvling that skill. Instead curent numbers leave only 10, 20, 30 so he`ll receive 10/20/30% in mechanics sumoning as in original.
2) Other is problem with onslaught and getting adrenaline distributed to Orc troops, it`s not working. I have only 1 orc unit , and 3 lvl onslaught so it should get 30 adrenaline, but i`m not getting any on start of battle. How to fix this ?

I think i found problem with Onslaught. If some1 can try to find sesion\orcs\orcs.kfc\skills.lua
in that file there is string :

function skill_rush(name,level)
local bonus = skill_power(name,2,level-1)
if level >1 then bonus=bonus-skill_power(name,2,level-2) end
local cur_rage=Logic.hero_lu_item("rage","limit")
Logic.hero_lu_item("rage","limit",cur_rage+bonus)
return true
end

which define bonus initiative, and rage from that skill, but i`m missing part local_bonus2 . . . for defining adrenaline distribution to orc troops in army. Pls copy other part of string and send it to me by PM. I`m not rly good with moding, but i think that should fix it. In eng_skills.lng i found description for functioning of this skill, but in skills.lua that part is missing.
Thx in advance ppl

[Zechnophobe]

Well, I think theres is some miscommunication here, I'll try to clear this up in a nice way.

There are two ways you can talk about balance. One is the human against the AI here. That is, is the challenge of the game perserved with a given change? The other is 'is the challenge of the game equal between game choices'.

I believe that you think this is 'more balanced' because it is making some classes stronger to bring them in line. That is, warrior gets stronger, Mage gets only a little stronger.

But does that address the concern of IS the fundamental challenge of the game preserved? Because it is not. You spend the same runes as you did pre-mod, but you get more rage, attack, defense, whatever. The game is then easier because you have more of these things at your disposal.

Considering that I don't find the game in need of less challenge, and in fact find ways to make it HARDER not EASIER, this mod seems very bad.

Also, your comment:

"It grows linearly=balanced."

Is false. Linear does not mean balanced. Nor does non-linear mean unbalanced. Consider, for example, that the cost of each rank isn't the same. THe first +1 attack you get is 4 might, 1 mind. The next two is 8 Might 2 mind. The last three are 12might, 3 mind. These are actually the same runes per attack cost, but broken up into different chunks.

By making the first point of attack cheaper, it lets you unlock the tier two skills earlier, while maintaining the same relative cost for a point of attack.

[Fatt_Shade]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

There are two ways you can talk about balance. One is the human against the AI here. That is, is the challenge of the game perserved with a given change? The other is 'is the challenge of the game equal between game choices'.

If you check on first page of this tread you`ll see mod creator said he made this mode for fun, not to preserve the way things are in original setup.
He didn`t thrived to preserve anything, he wanted to have fun in game without need to constantly cast phantom to revive units you cant buy while playing certain islands. Yes you get bonus on Att/Def, so you have stronger units thus less need to resurrect them-no more phantom casting rounds in battles-no more wasting time that way.

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

"It grows linearly=balanced."
Is false. Linear does not mean balanced. Nor does non-linear mean unbalanced. Consider, for example, that the cost of each rank isn't the same. THe first +1 attack you get is 4 might, 1 mind. The next two is 8 Might 2 mind. The last three are 12might, 3 mind. These are actually the same runes per attack cost, but broken up into different chunks.

Yea i made mistake here, didnt mean linearly, but evenly. Same bonus for every lvl of skill. I said balanced cause this way you get same bonus for every lvl, like with rage/mana gain from Anger/Wisdom or magic dmg from Destroyer/Summoner. Before no 1 lvl +1Att/Def/Int pretty weak, 2 so-so, and 3 lvl is great, now every lvl is usefull.
I`m thinking doing same for Learning/Healer skills, now in those for first lvl you get same bonus as for 2&3 lvl`s together, it`s seems uneven.

The Rider started working on similar mode, with some changes here and interesting ideas http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17260 but just dessapeared around middle of november, i wonder is he alright.

Any hints for fixing my problem with Onslaught , and no adrenaline on start of battle for my Orcs ? I remember it worked in KB-CW 1.2, but since i patched to 1.31 seem that skill doesnt work anymore. Havent noticed it with Mage cause never used Orcs, but it`s boring playing them without it

[affe111]

Originally Posted by The Rider

Here is the mod, changed few things in the description in the first post.
Unfortunately for some reason the file with the descriptions of the skills that is in the mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs doesnt work. To make it work, you have to open the mod file and to extract the eng_skills.txt in the same directory.

Both mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs and eng_skills.txt should be in the Kings Bounty Armored Princess\sessions\orcs directory

Do I need to start a new game to get this mod working?

[Fatt_Shade]

@affe111
No you dont have to restart game to get this mod working. All changes in skills are aplied to your hero when place mod in game folder/orcs/mods ,but you`ll miss bonus runes and mana/rage potions that are probable in % after battles, and that is bigest change in game in this mode. But if you`r not to far off in game go for it, anything less then 50 battles wont make much difference.
But chech my other posts in this tread, i played this mode 2 times so far, and found couple of errors :
1) in Onslaught skill 3 lvl, there is no runes cost,, change in skills.txt
2) Neatness skill change on lvl`s from 100/200/300 to 10/20/30 that`s % of boost to mechanic`s creating droid ability
3) if you want to go Orc army, Onslaught skill start working from 2 lvl, distribution of adrenaline to orc units at start of battle. Still no idea why it`s not working on 1 lvl though.

[affe111]

Thank you!
I started a new game though.

[gimpz]

I like that you are trying to balance the talents by evening out the rate at which you get the bonuses and I also like the change to Voice of the Dragon because now it's actually useful. But it's too overpowered to add all those att/def bonuses. If you want those traits you should simply invest in the skills that grant them. The changes to troops are good though.

[gimpz]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

As for making higher score then other players without this mode it`s not possible. You cant finish game in less then 7 days, with all quests, and 60+ lvl cause it doesn`t affects exp gain, or traveling time. So you cant get more points in the end=no cheating

Who cares about points nowadays? You play a game because it's fun, not to compare to other players who might have completely different ambitions than you. If you want to compete, this is not the game. The days when points mattered were on the 80s with games like Bubble Bubble and Tetris.

[Dart25]

this new skill treee seems not to work on me got steam version other mechanics seems to work is it possibel to get it some how to work?

i know that its pretty old mode but still hope some one maybe can help me