Post links to 'cheating using the soundmod' tracks here:

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I suppose I could post some tracks of me flying online in several different servers with no evidence of cheating going on,but what would that prove?

thats not what you were asked. see, we are back to the old oxford dictionary problem again were you are not paying attention to the actual meaning of the phrase.

what you were asked is "to post proof here that you have evidence and guarantees that no cheating whatsoever is occurring online since the soundfile hack was released and the il2 files were cracked"

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

As I have stated on more than one occasion,I have not witnessed any instance of cheating online using the soundmod....I can post my tracks of not seeing any cheating.

not valid, you're raising anecdotal evidence from one biased user and trying to generalize from it that there is no cheating. you'll need to do better.

but i'll let you in on a secret, before we all waste to much time on this. it is nearly impossible to prove a negative in a logical argument, so i know already in advance it is not something you are going to be able to prove. in the same way that unless some reborn hack kiddie posts evidence of his dirty laundry here, then you are not going to get conformation how frequent and easy cheating has become on full real servers.

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

As for the rest of it,what can I say? I am not totally blind,just partially sighted,so in response to your question 'are you blind?' then no,not quite.Maybe I am missing all the cheating due to my eyesight.

i am sorry, i didnt realize that. i wouldnt have made light of it if i had know you had problems with vision. my reference was to "being blinded to logic and reasoning", because a small number of people here, and i identified you as being one, are over and over pretending not to understand what issues here are at stake, and the arguments keep going around in circles, and meanwhile Rome is burning.

[fly_zo]

no no ... Rome is burning .... it is: sky is falling !

little dramatic don't you think ?

[Tbag]

Gunny, well said! +1

[JG52Uther]

At the end of the day zapatista, we all love this wonderful sim il2. I can agree to disagree on everything else,and if we continue like this we will just end up getting personal with each other and it is really not worth it.In fact I think we already started down that road and for that I apologise.
The only one who can 'fix' it now is Oleg,and I would love it if he can find a way to make 4.09 totally safe for everyone who wants an unmodded/unhacked sim.
Rather than concentrate on what 'has' happened, for which there is no going back for 4.08,we should look forward and hope 4.09 puts an end to all this.

[JG53Frankyboy]

indeed , a solution that would make online play hack-free (if wanted !!) and on the other side the possibilities to use these hacks offline (and online if the server/host allowes them) would be a perfect solution !
time will tell.................

even more perfect would be if Oleg would make some of these hacks official in an update- as examples some rearviewmirrors (espacially Hellcat), the now comming cockpittexture improvments.
the future will sure bring more things.

but as long these things are NOT official - i dont use any of these hacks.
personal decission from an 100% onliner !

[han freak solo]

Well said and is the truth. At least at the zoo, this topic is finally taboo.

Originally Posted by TUSA/TX-Gunslinger

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

[kristorf]

Originally Posted by TUSA/TX-Gunslinger

Well,

I don't have one post with respect to this issue in GD/SIMHQ or here. In my years with Il2 I've been through:

1. .50 cal whine war
2. 151/20 whine war
3. 190 Cockpit bar
4. U.S. Aircraft are porked whine war
5. Spitfire is too uber whine war
6. Dot whine war
7. 100/150 Fuel whine war
8. Trim on a slider whine war
9. Many, many more.

Prior to the hack/mod, the personal attacks, name calling and continual repeat of the same point ad infinitum, was at least divided down "red/blue"-"US red/USSR red" stovepipes.

Not this time. I see folks attacking each other in the most vile, dogmatic and destructive ways. If you removed the technical and historical references, an outsider might actually mistake this for a religious war.

I see past friends and comrades insulting each other to the point where a few weeks of "cooling off" might never repair those relationships.

We've even slunk so low now, that past friends are judging each other by which FORUMS they frequent? "I saw you posted OVER THERE - you must be a cheat!".

The strength of the Il2 community was always first and foremost it's PEOPLE.

The only thing good about this issue is, for once, it's not about RED vs BLUE or nationalistic pride. The bad thing is that it pits onliners against offliners - and "loyalists" against "revolutionaries".

There are only three logical outcomes to this battle:

1) It will be fixed in 4.09 soon
2) A third party encryption program will be developed
3) Nothing will be solved (least likely possibility based upon past history)

In the end, all the dogma, rhetoric, gnashing of teeth and slinging of mud won't accomplish anything except the permanent alienation of those who have fundamentally different views over this issue.

- For the "fundamentalists": All signs point to a 1C fix in the near future. When you get your "fix" - how many folks will be left to fly with and against? How many months/years do you think it will take to "heal" any of this? Do you think you are now, not partially responsible for creating the "death of the sim" that many of you are predicting? Think about it, if you can.

- For the "revolutionaries": No amount of discourse will change anyone's mind. The mortar is set. You've taken it upon yourselves to challenge the system - if that's what you want to do - why do you expect everyone to support you? Why don't you realize that perhaps a bungled up installation of the mod might not cause online issues?

What goal are any of you attempting to achieve?

As far as I, and many of the "quieter" folks in the community are concerned - this entire episode is disgusting FROM BOTH POINTS OF VIEW.

A pox on both your houses, as you are both destroying the community!

S~ and good luck in your holy war. I hope I've angered all of you sufficiently to re-examine how your acting, at least.

Now that I've had my turn for an "emotional outburst" at least I feel better.

Gunny

Well put, here endeth the lesson (hopefully), but I doubt it

[Avimimus]

Witch hunts can be fun. Make me the target!

* edited - I had an idea on how one could catch cheaters but I decided it would lead to a witch hunt *

[RaVe]

Gunny.. Great post
Thanks for the wake up call.
~S~RaVe

[zapatista]

and another kodak moment for the cheat deniers, see attached jpeg

a Frankenstein p51 with rearview mirror from a spit

and before the black helicopter brigade starts yelling photoshop, the thread i grabbed this from is here: http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthread...59#Post2403059

similar problems exist with people using a "no cockpit" view in full real servers