Changing Motherships

[Nanaki]

Looking at the motherships, I am a bit dissapointed in that they all seem the same... the early ones have the exact same loadout, 2 Big guns, 3 Turrets, 3 Systems, while the later ones have also, the exact same loadout, 2 Big Guns, 4 Turrets, 4 Systems (although the KFNI and Corporate motherships seem to be lacking one big gun...)

I have been thinking about changing the motherships so that they are more distinct, but at the same time I would like to also balance the late-game motherships (At the moment, the Manticore and the Lion cruisers seem to outmatch everything else).

Here are the list of motherships, Catigorized.
Naturally, the HMQueen and Arba are not included as they are not motherships.

Initial Mothership:
Mastiff

Optional Early-game Mothership:
Astarte

Final Motherships:
KFNI Star Wolf
Triada Rhino
Lion Cruiser MK3 (Yes, I know it is listed as a MK2 prototype, but all the game's internal files list it as MK3)
Lion Cruiser MK2 (MSF)
Manticore

Mission Specific Motherships:
MSF Supply Ship
Pirate Mastiff

Not used:
Lion Cruiser MK1
Military Transport
Lion Cruiser MK2 (Grey)? (This one may be used, not sure...)

[tsavo]

my feeling
excluding the price, there are following areas to deal with:

Maneuverability:
--speed
--turning rate
-- there are some upgrades, but all according to %, which is stupid for further development

Durability
--shield
--shield regeneration
--hull
--hull repair
-- there are good upgrades, but lack other parameters for futehr development

Fire power
--Main Gun
--AA(anti-attacker) turret
---accuracy/hit effect/range/rate of fire/warhead speed
---kinetic warheads need a total upgrade, but may be too big a task.
--MS launched Missiles might destroy the total balance?
--may be extra droid pod?

There are one major area not covered:
Power Generator
-Power core
--the total amount of energy all systems can use
--what ever tech they are using, no refueling need
-Charger
--some extra energy reserve for emergency

--If we can add Power core and Charger to Mothership, then all the systems (propelling/sheild/repair /guns/radar/auto-pilot) can be power sensitive, then u can balance everything accordingly, and build speciallized versions.
--eg. laser can still be the most deadly weapon, only they eat a big part of energy.
--same thing can apply to fighters
--it will be a new game, so, not likely to happen

Auxilary system
--radar
--missile defence
--laser proof
--auto-pilot
---speciall designed for specific mothership?
--basically good as they are

[Nanaki]

To clarify what I am intending to do, I am not intending to go real deep into this, my objective is simply to change the mothership stats around (number of GK Guns, Turrets, Systems) so that each mothership is distinct, and has its advantages and disadvantages.

Of course, I am not 100% sure how to go about this, which is why I am avoiding specifics.

--MS launched Missiles might destroy the total balance?
--may be extra droid pod?

MS launched missiles would be too much a hassle to be worth it... Even if they somehow worked on motherships, you would have to go to a station every time you want to refill your mothership, in addition, you cannot control weither your mothership fires or not so your mothership will be wasting all of its missiles on the first engagement every time. I do not even have to try it to know that it will be a bad idea.

---accuracy/hit effect/range/rate of fire/warhead speed
---kinetic warheads need a total upgrade, but may be too big a task.

Kinetic warheads are actually not too shabby. The -only- reason I prefer lasers is the extra range they get, and if I had a mothership with enough turrets I would probably mix kinetic weapons in there. Admittingly, it helps that anti-laser fields are extremely common as well.

[Goblin Wizard]

Originally Posted by tsavo

my feeling
excluding the price, there are following areas to deal with:

Fire power
--Main Gun
--AA(anti-attacker) turret
---accuracy/hit effect/range/rate of fire/warhead speed
---kinetic warheads need a total upgrade, but may be too big a task.
--MS launched Missiles might destroy the total balance?
--may be extra droid pod?

How would you like to change guns? especially kinetic?
and what is droid pod?
You listed the modules and parameters but not many reasons why they are wrong.

EDIT:
Balancing motherships is hard. For example you can make fast, maneuverable ms at the cost of shield and armor (and maybe firepower) but it probably won't survive fixed close range storyline encounters. If you give ms more firepower the game will be too easy. I really don't have good ideas how to change them.

[Nanaki]

Balancing motherships is hard. For example you can make fast, maneuverable ms at the cost of shield and armor (and maybe firepower) but it probably won't survive fixed close range storyline encounters. If you give ms more firepower the game will be too easy. I really don't have good ideas how to change them.

I actually wanted to avoid messing around with health, shields, speed and manuverability too much. What I am looking for is changing the amount of system slots, turret slots, and GKGun slots. For example, I am thinking of adding two System slots to both the Star Wolf and the Rhino to allow them to better compete with the Lion and Manticore ships.

[Goblin Wizard]

IMO due to the power of kali/tungsten modules every system slot is a huge change. It's worth to try but may follow to undestroyable ship. Making of "perma tank everything" ship is a straight way to easy and boring game.

Hmmm... an idea!!! What about making mothership only carrier-like ship. No main guns. Fast and manoverable. Only 3-4 small turrets (eventually we can make medium caliber guns which use GKturrets graphic). In case of big ship confrontation add heavy fighter like butcher.
Thing to check is: can fighters use main caliber guns? This may follow to evolution of heavy fighters to two main types: 1. heavy escort fighter like it is now and heavy assault fighter equiped with one main gun and small turret.
What you think about it?

EDIT: Even if main gun fighters aren't possible we can add normal heavy/small gun with enough power to blow things up. If recharge time will be set to high value (like 5 sec or so) it will be useless against fighters. Others option is to make low accuracy guns so they can only be useful against big/slow ships. All to not make uber "good against everything" gun.
I think this game is about fighters dogfights so let's focus on them.

[tsavo]

Originally Posted by Goblin Wizard

How would you like to change guns? especially kinetic?
and what is droid pod?
You listed the modules and parameters but not many reasons why they are wrong.

EDIT:
Balancing motherships is hard. For example you can make fast, maneuverable ms at the cost of shield and armor (and maybe firepower) but it probably won't survive fixed close range storyline encounters. If you give ms more firepower the game will be too easy. I really don't have good ideas how to change them.

it is not about what is wrong, it is about they are all the same.

Nanaki is working on build convoys and change mothership settings.
But, if you have 4 turret slots, your fire power is all the same, and always stronger than a 3 turret ms.

So the question is why those smaller motherships want to fight with you? Because they are not only less powerful, but also slower.

The only way to make difference, is rebalance from power core, not just systems. When you have less fire power, you either have more energy to run, or thicker shield.

If we go through the Star Wolf settings, older generations are weaker in everyway, and those pilots are still fighting fearlessly, that is wrong.

The thing is, power core is not going to happen.

[tsavo]

well, droid a unmaned fighters, something between missile and turret
it could be an option, not something must.

[tsavo]

Originally Posted by Nanaki

I actually wanted to avoid messing around with health, shields, speed and manuverability too much. What I am looking for is changing the amount of system slots, turret slots, and GKGun slots. For example, I am thinking of adding two System slots to both the Star Wolf and the Rhino to allow them to better compete with the Lion and Manticore ships.

if we do not introduce power core to set the limit, a mothership with 6 speed booster will dominate

[Nanaki]

IMO due to the power of kali/tungsten modules every system slot is a huge change. It's worth to try but may follow to undestroyable ship.

The Rhino and Star Wolf both have 5000 Health, 1000 Shields

The Manticore has 10000 health, 5000 Shields
The Lion MK2 has 12000 health, 4500 Shields
The Lion MK3 has 10000 health, 4000 Shields

Each Kali adds 3000 to Shields

So even if the two additional system slots went to Kalis (Extremely expensive, mind you, your looking at spending bout 1.4 million) the Rhino and Star Wolf only have 5000 Health, 7000 Shields, so they are still behind, just not rediculously so.

Thing to check is: can fighters use main caliber guns? This may follow to evolution of heavy fighters to two main types: 1. heavy escort fighter like it is now and heavy assault fighter equiped with one main gun and small turret.

Not without looking completely rediculous. GK Guns are huge, about the size of a small corvette. You could literally have a gun that is nearly as big, or bigger, than the ship it is bolted to.

Making of "perma tank everything" ship is a straight way to easy and boring game.

The problem here is that you never really fight a competant, well-equipped enemy. More often than not the heaviest your enemy has is a single Butcher, and most people have never even seen anything bigger, nevermind fought them. With exception of the Super Chimera, which is more an oversized corvette (it is only armed with six turrets and nothing else) than an actual capital ship.

The nastiest capital ship battle I ever been in was against Pirate walruses when you rescue Ternie. Those walruses, armed with GK Guns, tore through my fully upgraded Astarte very quickly and I am pretty sure I lost my Astarte (or came close to it) due to being cought with my pants down (Who expects a serious battle from Transports?).

You have Stalingrads, Stone Arrows (There are versions of both Stalingrad and Stone Arrows equipped with GK Guns), Pirate Mastiffs, Lion cruisers, and the worst you will face is a Super Chimera unless you actually -try- to pick a fight with everything you see.

Hell, you do not even see Stalingrads unless you play on hard difficulty.

TL;DR: We need more opponents in capital ships, especially those armed with GK Guns.