Friday 2010-11-19 Dev. update and Discussion

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by matsher

I can't stand the thought of having to put in hundreds of rifle rounds into a Nazi machine only to do some interior redecorating.

I know what you mean, while we want a historically accurate sim, we also want a balanced game. If the German aircraft had air to air missiles in WWII the Battle of Britain wouldn't have lasted long, and a game of it would be too one sided and pointless. But in the real BoB, Germany lost a lot more aircraft than Britain, so if it is historically accurate, your guns won't just be doing decorating. I appreciate that the German tactics were poor, and us gamers won't make those same mistakes in our 109s, but even so.

Lets see if those swarms of He-111's can get passed 24000 rounds per minute of HE cannon shells - Welcome to England Bitches You're cleared for immediate landing at your nearest convenient hedgerow.

Lol

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

Some of you're taking it just too personal, I guess

Personal! You killed my family!

I'm kidding, lighten up, he was just having a laugh about crazy ammunition in his fighter, and being aggressive towards some imaginary bomber. Instead of 8 .303's he wants 8 Vulcan Gatling guns. That’s clearly having a laugh and not being personal.

[Richie]

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

[PeterPanPan]

Originally Posted by Richie

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

Interesting pov ...

[Avimimus]

It certainly didn't keep them from following orders and killing a lot of people.

But, as for satisfaction - there is something about having to memorize the location of the enemy's fuel tanks - or gradually weaken and cripple the enemy over several runs (both more chivralic and your opponent knows that they are beaten). I personally moved beyond the Mk-108 many years ago (back on SWOTL) in preference to longer and closer fights. However, I can certainly see the appeal of the occasional fireball.

[Richie]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

It certainly didn't keep them from following orders and killing a lot of people.

But, as for satisfaction - there is something about having to memorize the location of the enemy's fuel tanks - or gradually weaken and cripple the enemy over several runs (both more chivralic and your opponent knows that they are beaten). I personally moved beyond the Mk-108 many years ago (back on SWOTL) in preference to longer and closer fights. However, I can certainly see the appeal of the occasional fireball.

Well you're not going to leave your butt planted in a chair playing cards while enemy fighters and bombers are zooming around are you?...Or are you??? That statement makes no sense to me. A Spitfire, Hurricane or Mustang pilot all had the same job as a 109 pilot. Kill or be killed. If you don't kill that enemy he's going to get you.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Richie

It's funny that's the last thing I think of my 109.....a Nazi machine. I think the higher ups were nothing but an irritating puzzlement and source of amusement to all of the Jagdgeschwader commanders and their pilots.

Originally Posted by Richie

Well you're not going to leave your butt planted in a chair playing cards while enemy fighters and bombers are zooming around are you?...Or are you??? That statement makes no sense to me. A Spitfire, Hurricane or Mustang pilot all had the same job as a 109 pilot. Kill or be killed. If you don't kill that enemy he's going to get you.

You have more choice than kill or be killed. If you feel that the war effort you are involved in is seriously wrong and immoral, you have several choices. You can defect, refuse to fight (you'd have to run to neutral ground, easy in a 109), or even just not be very good. For example, a 109 pilot in a good position in the BoB could easily just turn and run home, assuming no one was watching. Even say you shot down the enemy and get a pat on the back.

[Dietger]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

You have more choice than kill or be killed. If you feel that the war effort you are involved in is seriously wrong and immoral, you have several choices. You can defect, refuse to fight (you'd have to run to neutral ground, easy in a 109), or even just not be very good. For example, a 109 pilot in a good position in the BoB could easily just turn and run home, assuming no one was watching. Even say you shot down the enemy and get a pat on the back.

Well I congratulte you Triggaaaaar!
You cant be serious about history!!!!

Now how do you play alone in multiplayer? Sitting there on you English hedgerow lighting candles with them defected Gutmenschen1O9 pilots,
contemplating about all the poor multiplayers, beeing shot down by bad ass Nazis online fliers like me?

Salute!
Dietger

[swiss]

The Tommy could run too, no?

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Well the stories told say they just seriously hated the Germans because of what had happened to their country and did not see the air war as a "chivalrous" battle. They fought ruthlessly, took huge personal risks and had little regard for their own safety, often disobeyed orders to get a kill, pursued any damaged aircraft relentlessly making sure they were destroyed, showed no mercy. They were not after glory they just wanted to kill as many Germans as possible.

How true those stories are, who can tell these days.

...I do get rather tired of this fallacy that somehow Polish pilots were way better than all of the other nations in the BoB
Not entirely a fallacy. The Poles, along with Czechoslovaks, made a significant contribution to the BoB:
Quote:
[The RAF was] bolstered by the arrival of fresh Czechoslovak and Polish squadrons. These had been held back by Dowding, who mistakenly thought non-English speaking aircrew would have trouble working within his control system. However, Polish and Czech fliers proved to be especially effective. The pre-war Polish Air Force had lengthy and extensive training, and high standards; with Poland conquered and under brutal German occupation, the pilots of No. 303 (Polish) Squadron, the highest-scoring Allied unit, were strongly motivated. Josef František, a Czech regular airman who had flown from the occupation of his own country to join the Polish and then French air forces before arriving in Britain, flew as a guest of 303 Squadron and was ultimately credited with the highest "RAF score" in the Battle of Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...n_contribution

This contribution is well documented, in numerous reliable sources.

And this is exactly why I think it is skewed. Nobody is doubting contribution however little attention is paid to very important details such as how long a squadron actually spent on the front line given the frequent rotation system and how many pilots or aircraft they actually lost by a squadron, or which airfield they operated from, or which aircraft types they attacked. It's pretty meaningless. The trouble is that the raw figure is somehow seen as a measure of skill and ability which is very misleading.
The Luftwaffe may have lost 258 aircraft in Poland but that does not mean that 258 were shot down my Polish fighters - there are many ways to lose an aircraft.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not belittling contribution, but I don't accept that Poles were simply better than everybody else. That's nonsense.

[philip.ed]

Do any of you have the sensibility to just create a new topic and hammer away there? All you need to do is just quote the last reply and continue.
thanks in advance