Naked challenge

[impy]

Gentlemen, ladies, aliens
(in order of size of playerbase)

Two games I was looking forward to playing in 2012 - new KB: Wotn and Diablo 3. Well, both games were rushed and left a lot to be desired. Let's hope for some decent patches. So once again I dusted off a (digital) copy of Crossworlds, and asked myself a question : Can you finish the game with completely "naked" character? And yet another challenge was born..
1) No kiting - guardians have to be defeated before continent scrolls are claimed
2) No pet dragon - pet dragon is not used at all and stays at level 1 until end of the game
3) No equipment - no items can be equipped on your character
4) No skills - your hero cannot learn any skill. The only exception is giving Scouting 1 to your warrior hero, so you can see & plan things without affecting difficulty.
5) No companion - yep, no one there to listen to your cuss words
6) And for those fearless masochists - No loss.

Note : casting spells from scrolls is allowed.

Basically just utilize all KB knowledge you have and get out there and do it. I am not sure if no loss is possible at this point, I have so far completed approx. 1/3 of the game. Boy is it tough! If you've thought some strategies are overpowered, then under these circumstances they are not, believe me. It brings me back to my first days with KB series, when I was just going around islands looking for something to kill actually. Fights might take a bit longer than usual, 20-30 turns depending on your strategy. Now rules of this challenge are not set in stone, you can change them to suit you, for example I noticed that this challenge without going for no-loss condition can be quite pleasurable for advanced player, but be careful with money. I'll write later on some hints&tips (which are probably all known by now anyway), so for now at least some screenshots

[Fatt_Shade]

OK question :
If you dont use rage/mana/runes/items why do you even play this game ?

[impy]

I suppose you've noticed yourself that as get more experienced with KB, less and less army, spells etc. you need to succeed. I just wanted to push it to the limit once and see if one can do it completely "naked". It is not a standard gameplay, just a way to entertain myself after putting hundreds of hours into KB. I believe there are still plenty of tactical elements - battlefield structure, units special skills, iniative etc to make it worthwhile. If new strategies get discovered I gladly share them.

here is a few good old standard tips:
- group of paladins with 4 x 1 archmage can defeat most of the debir. prolong fights to ten rounds and maximize magic shield usage. you can gain 300+ hits on guardian angel medal right there.
- engineers are fabulous unit for first few islands. sturdy summoner with blinding spell. Since on first few islands there aren't many high level enemies use their blind with maximum effect by cleverly positioning your stacks at the front.
- use battlefield to your advantage. You can drag difficult enemies around a bit to get favorable battlefield conditions - usually naturally occuring bottlenecks which will slow enemy down.
- runemages can sheep enemies easily, since you will have 20 magic runes quite soon. sometimes use more stacks of runemages to make a mockery of enemy army. It is not always size, but type of units involved. Both beholders are excellent for dealing with low level enemies.
- use cheap and cheerful spells to divert enemy fire, use Spells like nature call, book of evil. Fear is tremendous spell if you have higher quantities, you can base the whole battle around it. I also used Fit of energy in difficult fights on runemages. all can be found from very beginning.
- use royal thorn overpowering tactics. Summon thorns and hold them back for a bit cause they die easily. With your other units quickly kill some weak stack preferably plenty of low level enemy. Summon extra thorns. work on another weaker enemy stack. Once you got few thorn summons out, bigger part of middle of the battlefield will be occupied by skirmish. Retreat with your main army back, regroup, heal, shoot etc.
- Generally, slower the enemy melee stack, less attention it requires. try to outmaneuver them while you deal with more dangerous stacks and leave them to the end. I never pick battlefield treasure unless battle is decided, since chests represent obstacle and sometimes distracion for enemy (unless enemy has robbers )

few desperate tips:
- start new game, collect free Scarlet & Bolo scrolls. Go to scarlet and collect free 1-2 scrolls. You need Call of colossus scroll for either black dragon or troll.....chickeeen
- start new game and check Bolo if there is free Rusty scroll outside Erica tent. This way you can do juicy free quests - Rohaty, Pirate Captain, Smuggler and collect emerald dragon very early.

[Fatt_Shade]

I know impy you did some interesting/crazy runs with KB, but this one seems to limited No skills, items, rage, spells ... what`s left from plenty of interesting things in this games?
No much adrenaline (rage control, onslaught, adrenaline skills), so whole orc race is out of game

- group of paladins with 4 x 1 archmage can defeat most of the debir. prolong fights to ten rounds and maximize magic shield usage. you can gain 300+ hits on guardian angel medal right there.

You said no kiting, so how did you get paladins and 4 archmages on Debir ?

- engineers are fabulous unit for first few islands. sturdy summoner with blinding spell. Since on first few islands there aren't many high level enemies use their blind with maximum effect by cleverly positioning your stacks at the front.

Also available on Bolo, so need to clear Debir map guardians before it.

- runemages can sheep enemies easily, since you will have 20 magic runes quite soon. sometimes use more stacks of runemages to make a mockery of enemy army. It is not always size, but type of units involved. Both beholders are excellent for dealing with low level enemies.

We`ll wait a bit before having enough lds for rune mages split into stacks for mass sheep enemy army.

- use royal thorn overpowering tactics. Summon thorns and hold them back for a bit cause they die easily. With your other units quickly kill some weak stack preferably plenty of low level enemy. Summon extra thorns. work on another weaker enemy stack. Once you got few thorn summons out, bigger part of middle of the battlefield will be occupied by skirmish. Retreat with your main army back, regroup, heal, shoot etc.

Good idea until first dragon in enemy army, or enemy hero with fireball/fire rain.

[impy]

You say - no skills, items, rage, spells..that's exactly what this challenge is about. It does not have to be pretty, but difficult & different. There is still enough tactical elements involved. Were my previous challenges pretty? I cannot tell, but my emphasis has always been on increased difficulty somehow, ad this last challenge is a pinnacle of them. You see, I am naturally defensive cautious player and increased difficulty appeals to me. Like I said feel free to amend it the way you like.
But the rest of your post left a bit baffled.
1) KB AP+CW games have been out for years, and kiting has been described and discussed in depth. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under impression that kiting refers to removing "stationary" continent scroll guardians and getting a scroll without fight. There are no such guardians on Debir. Just running around and picking free laying items does not constitute kiting. There are instances when continent scrolls may be awkwardly placed (on the litle patch of land by the sea in case Monster of the Abyss is placed there as well) but there are no "stationary" guardians. I believe it is developers
decision not to have such guardians on Debir (and partly Scarlet), since you are very low level with limited army choices, and it would just cause players' frustration to have some stronger guardians right on Debir. Many would just restart the game to get better conditions.
2) it's true you will most likely not have 2 runemages before fighting for Verona scroll in this challenge, I just provided a useful tip which does not necessarily have to kick in right at the start. It is useful later under specific circumstances, just like royal thorns are useful early on and again later on when situation calls for it - for example no strong shooters in enemy army + slow melee units. Summoning 2 x thorns before enemy comes and holding the middle could be the only way to victory..
I do not use just one army setup. I have castles full of units waiting - royal thorns, demonologists, engineers, trolls...My current setup you can see in the screenshot. Dragons are weak, and only pester shooters. I wish to replace them with vampires later on.

[Fatt_Shade]

1) i know Debir map`s are unguarded but i said where you get paladin, when first pala i ever saw was after returning amulet of illumination from Bolo dungeon = some kiting must be involved to move droid hero there.
2) rune mages and thorn army is great tactic as you said, but i just know this will hit wall hard very soon.

I loved your idea for 14 fights end game with droids/bone dragon... challenge. It left everything available in game, but only limitation was 14 fights. Here you cut out all things i lover in KB series, but leave as much time as player want to finish game. Dont know, just not my thing
Good luck nevertheless

[impy]

you're right about paladins, they're always appear after returning amulet on Debir. Although it is not necessarily their first appearance. I've seen them few times in the tent behind Hector Norbu; but that's random as we all know. And yes, one has to move the Bolo droid for the amulet, but since he is not a continent scroll guardian, it is ok
here is a small update after 154 fights. That is roughly half of the game, still going no-loss. I haven't got access to Elon, shettera or any of those later islands. I was quite lucky with relatively easy Verona & Montero guardians, but other scrolls are guarded by those overpowered orcs mostly. I have done all fights which although very difficult, did not require casting practically any spells. I also bought upgradeable items and gained experience there. My core army you can see in the screenshot. I have to say that difficulty of game rises faster than the strength of droids, rune mages etc, and no-loss seems unlikely, we'll see.
So here are the other possibilities:
- Mesmer quest gives black knights. I have around 8 x eviln scroll
- use Call of death to get ancient vampires (vampires) & use their drain ability. ideally in the fight where there are no strong shooters and there is a spot with limited access.
- use ghost + stone skin in similar way
- I found a few time back scrolls. So I can wreak havoc for two turns, divert enemy fire and then get the full numbers back. Ideally with strong special skills which would be handy for recharging. Royal griffins - they're level 4, damn, or maybe goblin shamas and their astral damage? or even royal snakes
- I have not tried those owerpowered orcs yet. orc veterans with haste? can loose approx 1600htp which rune mages can heal. How about little goblins? If I can divert enemy fire to some other target, they deal tremendous damage.
- good old fear spell. since my lowest unit is level 3 droid, units lower than that can be kept at bay. Well at least at end of the fight if repairing is difficult

[Fatt_Shade]

And yes, one has to move the Bolo droid for the amulet, but since he is not a continent scroll guardian, it is ok

You`re skirting around definition of kiting very closely
Nice work so far, if you get Dersu/Uzala/Tekron with no loss, some nice quests with no battles could be found there with wings even better (have you done Hagni in so far Montero?)
Good luck my fellow KB theoretician

[Razorflame]

so how's the challenge going?

it must be really hard to get heroes down who cast massive spells

I wonder how u are going to do bosses (A)

[impy]

Challenge is going well, thanks for asking I was getting a bit frustrated, because I could see I really needed to defeat some new continent scroll guardian in order to progress, and it looked immensely difficult. I had Dersu scroll earlier, but with tactics which I am not very proud of - enemy army was mostly slower melee, so I just grabbed a few dragons and flew around burning them, fooling shooters with nature call etc. Well, it did the job and that's what matters. Bosses? they will be done at the very end of the game, although spider and frog maybe earlier. Heroes? I've done only those which I could kill comfortably regardless of their spells - Odin, Spirit of Sorrow for example.
But I'd like to share with you fight for Nameless scroll on Umkas. so here we go : first, I moved an enemy around a map a bit to have centre blocked. It's not great but at least two hexes were occupied and that's what I needed. I could not let those enemy units with speed 3-4 reach my back rank, since rune mages had no poison resistance, summons were fragile, and any unit attacked by crit from hyenas was a beyond fixing (if not killed outright). I also needed to keep Ents at the back, so they do not use their nasty distant attack. I had allowance of about 10 scrolls I think, so I grabbed few fear scrolls, demon portals (which a better than nature call - they block a hex for 2 turns), and time back scrolls (that's why I grabbed level 3 vampires, not level 4 ancient ones). Droids were obvious choice, vampires were chosen for poison res., life draining, no retaliation, but due to enemy numbers they were doing more of finishing jobs while keeping numbers high. So three centre hexes were held impregnable by 2 x rep. droids and vampires. 2 hexes at the bottom of the screen were held by summoned spiders + demon portal. I casted fear on hyenas so they just have nothing to attack behind the barrier. The only unit sent forward was sturdy droids which pulled thorns and worked on them. After initial summon rune mages just kept firing on hyeans in order to sheep them. I also needed second summon to be thorns which were kept at the back and once weak enemy stack were down, I overwhelmed the centre with summons. There you go - It is all combination of previously mentioned tactical finesses and at the end it worked.