RRR reload refuel repair option

[Marabekm]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Repairs that don't take hours or days are the least realistic part of RRR.

So, those folks who want realism should probably just turn the "Repair" option off.

Other than that, you might have a random chance that a repair could be completed quickly. Set the "quick repair" chance at less than 1% for realistic results, and only for light damage, fuel or oil leaks, and damage to gauges and guns.

For example, it's possible that your fuel leak isn't due to a badly ruptured fuel cell, but just a small hole in your fuel line. 10 minutes, a wrench, and a bit of hose, and your plane is fit to fly again.

Or, say that your gun damage isn't actually a bullet through the body of the gun, but just a bullet through the links that hold the belt of bullets together. Remove the gun cover, remove the bad link and your gun is back in action.

If quick repair isn't an option, then its time to respawn/get a new plane.

A quick repair is a relative term. Remember first you have to diagnose the problem, then fix it, then test it. And its not all about just patching a bullet hole. Its not what you see is broke now, its what got knocked loose or damaged such that it will fail in the future. (Think working on your car - Sure an oil change can be done in 15 - 20 minutes, but to fix something that is broke, that can take much longer and still be considered quick)
Add the issue of parts. So your plane is damaged - The part you need to fix it is at the main supply base 1 to 2 hours away(or worse yet- the part is back in home country and must travel by ship to a main distribution area, then aircraft). Do you really want to sit there for an hour or so while somebody gets in a transport aircraft, flies the part out to the forward base (better hope no one shoots him down), then the ground crew has to perform the maintenance and put plane back together. (Time frame of hours to days depending on the amount of damage) - But still considered quick.

So would it be realistic - absolutely not. An interesting option to have? - sure.

Perhaps as an alternative:
1. Set plane limit (which you can already do) So we have 20 Bf-109Fs at Tobruk.
2. Someone takes off and gets damaged but can make it back to base. Upon returning to base, taxi's and parks at designated repair area. Player hits refly
3. Now that plane at the moment is un-flyable so plane limit goes down to 19 available at Tobruk. Player is in another 109 and goes back into the virtual skies.
4. Upon completion of repairs (time limit would be set by mission builder) that plane would be flyable again increasing limit back to 20.

[Tolwyn]

I just realized we're basically talking about Sprint Cars (Nascar) making a pitstop, getting fuel, a windshield cleaning, banging out the dents... and away you go again.
Hmmm.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Marabekm

A quick repair is a relative term. Remember first you have to diagnose the problem, then fix it, then test it.

Again, agreed. That's why, realistically, the chance of being able to make a quick repair should be minimal (like 1% or less).

But, there were a VERY few cases where aircraft were able to be quickly repaired in the manner I described. The mechanic was able to instantly diagnose the problem, then very quickly fix it with sufficient confidence in his work that he didn't have to test it.

So, not the norm, but the stuff that legends are made of.

If you want a deeper degree of realism in mechanical repair options, the game should keep track of degree of damage to an aircraft and then assign a "damage category" to it after the mission.

Category 0 - Undamaged - Only routine maintenance needed.

Category 1 - Light Damage - Aircraft can be repaired on site - repairs take hours to days to complete. In most campaigns, the aircraft can be returned to action. In game, this might represent light damage to one or a few areas of the plane, or a well-done belly landing.

Category 2 - Heavy Damage - Aircraft beyond repair in field - repairs take weeks or months to complete. In most campaigns, the airplane is out of action. On an aircraft carrier, the deck crew might just tip the plane over the side. In game, this might represent heavy damage to several areas of the plane, or light damage to most areas of the plane. It could also represent a belly landing which cracks the plane up, or damage due to overspeed/ excessive G forces.

Category 3 - Fatal Damage - Aircraft is "beyond economical means of repair" and is a write-off. It is no longer flyable, although it might still be useful for parts, ground training, etc. Repairs take years to complete, and are mostly funded by eccentric millionaires who drag decaying wrecks out of deserts, lakes, and jungles 60 years after the aircraft was lost. In game terms, this represents heavy damage to many parts of the plane, or damage to planes which catch on fire, explode, or crash at high speed.

The same categories could also be used for kill claims. Damaged = Category 1 damage, Probable = Category 2 damage, Kill = Category 3 damage (plus "other stuff" like seeing the airplane crash/crew bail out).

Note that the categories above are simplifications of RAF and USAAF aircraft damage categories, which were a bit more complex.

[P-38L]

On August 20, 2010 a MOD was published, in which the pilot could get off the plane, walk and go back to the plane.

This routine could be implemented taking advantage several alternatives.

1. The pilot manages to reach the airport or aircraft carrier, his plane is so damaged that can not be repaired quickly. The pilot off the plane, walk or run to another aircraft available and flies again. This instead of using the Refly option.

2. A pilot managed to land his plane in a remote area from an airport. He asked to be rescued. The civil aircraft controlled by another pilot, will fly to his or her location to be rescued. The civil airplane lands in that remote area and recue the pilot. They fly to the nearest airport. The rescued pilot gets off the civil plane, walk up a warplane available and fly again.

Imagine the possibilities.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygdbLbeM1c

[KG26_Alpha]

It was never produced just done to show a Java possibility,
control of the pilot was difficult and took a lot to get him to move,
it wasnt a case of using few keys to go forwards backwards left and right.

IIRC

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

It was never produced just done to show a Java possibility,
control of the pilot was difficult and took a lot to get him to move,
it wasnt a case of using few keys to go forwards backwards left and right.

Also, really crude animation just using the "dead in the parachute" and "running pilot" poses.

While there's something to be said for letting aircrew run to their planes (simulating "alarm start"/"scramble" missions), or run from one plane to another, or just run to get cover on the ground if they're near a live bomb or being strafed, IL2 just doesn't look that good at "human" scale. It's an airplane sim, not a FPS.

[dimlee]

Examples of quick repairs under one hour: change of broken gunsight (small but annoying damage on some aircrafts) or of gauges on instrument panel.

And I like idea of fuel and ammunition types limitations. Makes online play more interesting in tactical terms. Let's say I fly my Henschel and there are trucks and tanks in target area. Normally I press all buttons at once. But if 30mm AP ammo is in short supply, I'll be more selective and will use Mk103 cannon only against tanks. Etc, etc...

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by dimlee

Examples of quick repairs under one hour: change of broken gunsight (small but annoying damage on some aircrafts) or of gauges on instrument panel.

Not a good example. Broken gunsights must be calibrated. And this alone might take more than an hour.

Rearm Repair and Refuel, should be limited to Rear and Refuel. IF (with capital letters) some kind of realism is intended.
Rearming some planes is far slower than others.
The only type or repair that could be done that fast, is parching some holes, and to the limit, changing a canopy... if it is available in stock...
Even changing a spinner is a difficult process that needs balancing it, without computer assistance, and made just by trial and error iterations on that period.

And I like idea of fuel and ammunition types limitations. Makes online play more interesting in tactical terms. Let's say I fly my Henschel and there are trucks and tanks in target area. Normally I press all buttons at once. But if 30mm AP ammo is in short supply, I'll be more selective and will use Mk103 cannon only against tanks. Etc, etc...

When you build a strategic game, and you start calculating the costs and logistics needed to move just the fuel for a single schwarm flight, you learn that blowing a fuel tank on some places is equivalent to blowing up 20 planes with one shot. Those flying machines were thirsty! 400L would be consumed in just one single flight by a single engined plane.
A destroyed truck convoy could imply the loss of much more than a single fighter.
It is really nice for the flying game, targets become real. Dogfights are avoided as useless activities, ground attack becomes primary tasks, and so on.

One thing that is not well represented in game is plane stability and maneuverability at low altitude.
Hitting a mudmover using boom and zoom tactics generally ended with the fighter pilot participating in a gourmette conference with the worms, he being the first dish.

Those minor details can made this a better game than just a new badly implemented plane.

[Tolwyn]

Guys you aren't ever going to agree.

Just flag the difficulty:

Allow rearm yes/no
Allow repair yes/no
Allow full repair yes/no (becomes unavailable if Allow repair is no)
Allow refuel yes/no

And control the time in the *.mis file if the Radias object is placed.

[P-38L]

All people who oppose this great option, should think that if we are talking about realism, neither is turn the engine on, as simply pressing the "I" key.

Nobody has complained how to start an engine (It would be a breakthrough, having to perform the procedure for starting an engine and the difference it has between the different planes).

The solution to this is simple. If you do not like the R/R/R option, then do not use it.

In FS2004 and FSX have the option that if you approach the plane enough to a gas station, the fuel tank of your aircraft will start automatically filled. Even, you can see the needle move fuel level while the tank is filled.

On the other hand, Prepar3D in its new version 3.5, you have the option of using a human and walk or run. This simulator has been improved by Lockheed Martin. It's an airplane sim too, not a FPS.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2S0mB3t_o8