Rudder to help turns???

[HauptmannMolders]

OK so I keep hearing from the aces around here that a plane will turn more quickly if you apply a little rudder which I don't quite follow... lets assume i've banked right and am now pulling back on the stick in an effort to turn as quickly to the right as possible short of stalling. Do I stick in right or left rudder and why?

[Rhah]

Personally, I only use rudder if I'm in a banking and diving, or banking and climbing (I can't think of the actual name of the manoever, sorry!). I only apply it at the top or bottom of the curve, but not when I'm at a full turn or the aircraft tends to flip.
You don't need to use much rudder, just nudge it a little to swing the nose of the aircraft around.

Then again, this could all be completely wrong, so its probably best to wait till a more skilled pilot replies!

[InfiniteStates]

Maybe because it reduces your speed? Dunno - I just find using the rudder a recipe for stalling myself...

[STINGERSIX78]

u make a u-turn if u are climbing, turn+use the rudder.

[Hrok81]

I was about to ask the same question lol
I read a few moments ago that RL pilots use rudder to counter adverse yaw (when you bank right the nose tends to go left for a moment...or something like that) and that's it.

[stealth finger]

Originally Posted by HauptmannMolders

lets assume i've banked right and am now pulling back on the stick in an effort to turn as quickly to the right as possible short of stalling. Do I stick in right or left rudder and why?

Rudder into the turn so if youve banked right rudder right, because it shifts the plane on the axis your get more turn. Its kind of like skidding in a way but you dont have to bank as far as normal and you also have to account for the extra spin the rudder will give you otherwise itll just pull you into a stall . It's a delicate balance but once you find it you can definetly get the edge on someone whos just banking even if it just gets your guns that little bit extra lead. The downside is you'll bleed off speed that much quicker so you need to keep the power up.

[Panzergranate]

There are several uses for the rudder as folows:

Note that the terms "Positive" and "Negative" refer to the employment of control surfaces into or against a turn.

(A) Rudder / Elevator turns and stunts (Retourment, Immelmann Turn, Cuban Eight, etc.) which are performed by the use of the rudder and elevators only with the aerolons held flat. The Fw-190 will out turn the Spitfire easily when it comes to rudder and elevator only turns.

Note that most of these maneuvers are possible in simulator or realistic modes due to faults in the physics engine which the patch will hopefully fix.

(B) Balancing an aircraft in a banked turn in simulator and realistic modes. For those players that fly with the contorls set to 100%, it is possible to "balance" the aircrafts and fly an aircraft right up to its limits in a turn.

A quote from a FW-190 pilot (Jane's "Battles With The Luftwaffe") describes how a lapse of concentration during a tight turn caused his Fw-190 "Loose its balance" and drop into a spin.

(C) Flying canted. This is where the rudder and elevators are set into the turn both the aerolons are opposed, causing the aircraft to fly at a squewed angle. The technical term is a "Slip Turn" and it is used by pilot to land aircraft in strong side winds (Slip Landing). Fighter aces, such as Baron Von Richtofen and Richard "Ira" Bong used the trick to point the nose of thier fighters inside a turn to take a kill shot. A lot of BOP aces do exactly the same.

(D) Using Prop Wash to force the tail round. Certain single engined aircraft with large tails and powerful engines can be made to snap their tails around with a quick blast of WEP. Whilst the Hurricane, P-47, P-51 and Fw-190 excell at this trick, the I-16, I-153 don't. The Spitfire and Bf-109 aren't so good at this as are most others.

Note that the Bf-110 C-4, like all twin engined fighters, will "power drift" the tail in a turn in simulator and realistic modes. In arcade mode there is no noticeable difference.

(E) Pulling out of dives..... certain aircraft pull out of dives better if rolled onto their sides and pulled up on the rudder. (P-51, Fw-190, La-5, La-7, etc.)

In general, if the guy in an identical aircraft to your's is out turning and running rings around you in arcade, then he's exploiting all the controls as much as he can to gain an advantage.

That's right!! I don't know about E, but I use all the rest of them. The trick is knowing where the "balance" point of your plane is. The 47 will turn pretty damn good using the rudder! I just did it today against a K-4 and was GAINING on it! It takes some practise. In stunt terms, using rudder at the top of a climb and applying full throttle is called a hammerhead. It works well in arcade mode. Applying up elevator and rudder simultainiously produces a snap roll. I haven't tried that yet. The "slipping" in a turn to get your nose ahead of your opponents works! Unfortunately, my aim is the worst of my problems and I miss all the damn time!!!!!!!!!!!

The key to getting the "balance" right is practise and flying the same mount. If you keep switching planes, you'll never get the best from any of 'em.

If you use rudder to turn tighter, the aircrafts wings will not be perpendiclar to the ground. If they are, you WILL stall. The wings are about 45 to 60 degrees to the ground, and that's where your "balance" is. Tip the wings over further, you stall. As you get in the turn, keep pulling the elevator farther and farther back, keeping the plane "balanced". It turns tighter and tighter. How tight depends on physics and gravity! And keep the throttle up! You will lose speed and get outturned anyway because your opponent is turning faster.

Go into practise in your favorite mount. Put yourself up against the best turning planes. 5 or 6 of them. Figure out how to stay with them. I don't use it all the time. It depends on the situation and what I'm in and what I'm up against.

Oh, and I'm NOT one the best aces! So I might be full of shit.

[kozzm0]

before you start relying on your rudder for that extra edge, keep in mind the benefit is minor. You'll probably be fine if you just rudder into turns, and use rudder to get your plane pointed in the right direction quicker in complex 3d turns.

Relying on ability to "outturn" the opponent is a last-resort tactic. If you're pursuing an enemy who has a faster or tighter-turning plane, you can stay in control of the situation by simply keeping the center of your turning circle behind theirs. No matter which direction they turn, they'll have to cross your guns to make you overshoot, unless they're masters of evasion, in which case they're likely to give you a chance to disengage and then re-engage to try again.

If you're being pursued by an enemy in a tighter- or faster-turning plane, chances are your plane can simply outrun them.

Whether you have a fast or slow low-radius turner, trying to shake an enemy off your 6 by picking a direction and turning invites disaster. The enemy's best chance to hit you is if you remain in their guns plane for a long strafing burst. If you just turn, they can set up their crosshairs at just before the right amount of lead, and then you have to fly through a long gauntlet of rounds. Even worse, if you're in a tight turn, they'll probably be shooting at the top of your plane which is a big target compared to the 6. But if you roll instead, the enemy can't set up in front of you cause you're refusing to fly into their crosshairs no matter where they point them. Rudder is an effective way to vary the rolls to make them harder for the enemy to predict. If the enemy flies close enough trying to aim for a snap shot, as they usually do, you can slow down and stalemate them in a Lufbery or rolling scissors.

If you find yourself in a concentric-circle chase with a fast turner, you already made serious tactical errors to end up there.

One other thing to keep in mind is turning fast and turning sharp are not the same thing. If your plane's corner speed is higher than the opponent's, don't get into a sharp turn contest. Use oblique turns and yo-yo's to maximize your turn rate by keeping your circle bigger - or disengage.

[HauptmannMolders]

Awesome thanks guys!