I Refuse To Fly WW2 CoD German Aircraft. Why?

[MB_Avro_UK]

Hi all,

I regard myself as educated. I have a good university degree, I went to what is regarded as a 'good' school and I enjoy all periods and aspects of history. I value reasoned and at times unreasoned debate!

As regards Cliffs of Dover, I cannot bring myself to 'fly' German aircraft. I used to fly German aircraft in il2 1946 against Russian aircraft online without a problem. Maybe this was a Cold War hang-over??

Perhaps the problem is caused by an 'enemy' attacking my home?? Yes, I realise that it's not real and it all comprises digital ones and noughts etc. But overflying Dover, Brighton and Manston with such good maps does bring it home to me.

How would our German members here feel about an RAF Bomber Command and US 8th bomber assault on their country as a simulator? Would a few German members fly Lancasters and B-17s?

What are the opinions of today's Neutrals?

And as I have mentioned in a previous thread, this post is in no way a condemnation of today's Germany. Germany is my second home. Britain and Germany lost their way in 1914 because of politicians and again in 1939. And our beer tastes the same And we have the same Royal Family

And many of us have similar DNA

How's the Euro at the moment



Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[6S.Manu]

I fly anything except Italian planes...

[MB_Avro_UK]

[Bewolf]

I've flown bombers attacking Germany or german troops in IL2 all the time, espeically the P47 was a favorite ride. Used the Blen here also a couple times. But then again, carpet bombing missions never were on the cards to begin with.

It's a game, if you take it "too" seriously, I suggest getting out and travelling a bit more.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Have you lost your mind?

England (including all other countries, Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland, as was appropriate at this time to refer to them simply as England) and France declared war on Germany.

Dispite numerous peace offers of Germany (or the 3rd Reich if you prefer), we the English (British) declined, even when Hitler offered to step down... These peace offering and nogotiations even encluded Rudolf Hess (2nd deputy of Germany) flying to Scotland to reason with the Duke of Hamilton.... In short NSDAP Germany went to great lengths not to war with England. Through the situation England which found the situation of events distasteful - waged war on Germany upon the will of only one man - Winston Spencer Churchill - Lord of the Admiralty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MRfcYZNS9Y

"Victory, Victory at all costs!" A victory that cost the English (yes Im English but I was not there) an Empire! An Empire that was put up as collatoral for the massive and extorsionate loans from the USA and other countries. An Empire which granted some states independance in exchange for service to the British Realm in exchange if they fought for Britian! - Indian Regiments for example! An Empire WS Churchill was trying to save!

Winston Spencer Churchill, syphilis sufferer, was a Veteran of the colonial wars (he had to do the exam 3 times at sandhurst to become an officer because he failed it twice!) in India and Africa. He was fighting for Englands (Britians) sake, for an Empire he "cashed in" to fight the Germans! Only Great Britain was to rule the world - having the largest empire in the world EVER! It was Mutually Assured Destruction before the cold war!

What ever you believe (and I am not pro NSDAP or anything else but a human being!) you must consder the historical importance from before and after this time!


I'd also like to point out Germany finally repaid its War reperations a few years ago:

Wikipedia (unreliable)

World War II
Europe
Further information: German reparations for World War II

After World War II, according to the Potsdam conference held between July 17 and August 2, 1945, Germany was to pay the Allies US$23 billion mainly in machinery and manufacturing plants. Reparations to the Soviet Union stopped in 1953. In addition, in accordance with the agreed-upon policy of de-industrialisation and pastoralization of Germany, large numbers of civilian factories were dismantled for transport to France and the UK, or simply destroyed.[citation needed] Dismantling in the west stopped in 1950.

In the end, war victims in many countries were compensated by the property of Germans that were expelled after World War II. Beginning even before the German surrender and continuing for the next two years, the United States pursued a vigorous program to harvest all technological and scientific know-how as well as all patents and many leading scientists in Germany (known as Operation Paperclip). Historian John Gimbel, in his book Science Technology and Reparations: Exploitation and Plunder in Postwar Germany, states that the "intellectual reparations" taken by the U.S. and the UK amounted to close to $10 billion.[5] German reparations were partly to be in the form of forced labor. By 1947, approximately 4,000,000 German POWs and civilians were used as forced labor (under various headings, such as "reparations labor" or "enforced labor") in the Soviet Union, France, the UK, Belgium and in Germany in U.S run "Military Labor Service Units".
See also: Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union, POW labor in the Soviet Union, and World War II reparations towards Yugoslavia

Germany paid Israel 450 million DM in Holocaust reparations, and paid 3 billion DM to the World Jewish Congress to compensate survivors in other countries. No reparations were paid to the Romanies who were killed during the Holocaust.[6]

According to the Paris Peace Treaties, 1947, Italy agreed to pay reparations of about US$125 million to Yugoslavia, US$105 million to Greece, US$100 million to the Soviet Union, US$25 million to Ethiopia, and US$5 million to Albania. Finland agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union; Finland also was the only country which fully paid its war reparations. Hungary agreed to pay reparations of US$200 million to the Soviet Union, US$100 million to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Romania agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union. Bulgaria agreed to pay reparations of $50 million to Greece and $25 million to Yugoslavia. According to the articles of these treaties, the value of US$ was prescribed as 35 US dollars to one troy ounce of pure gold.
Japan

According to the Treaty of Peace with Japan and the bilateral agreements, Japan agreed to pay around ¥1.03 trillion.[citation needed] For countries that renounced any reparations from Japan, it agreed to pay indemnity and/or grants in accordance with bilateral agreements.

The government of the United States officially apologized for the Japanese American internment during World War II in the 1980s and paid reparations.

Wheras England and the USA never paid any reperations for the crimes against humanity for Dresden, Hamburg, Nagasaki or Hiroshima! The VICTORS write the rules...

In short patriotism is for C****!

[MB_Avro_UK]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

I've flown bombers attacking Germany or german troops in IL2 all the time, espeically the P47 was a favorite ride. Used the Blen here also a couple times. But then again, carpet bombing missions never were on the cards to begin with.

It's a game, if you take it "too" seriously, I suggest getting out and travelling a bit more.

Thanks. I'll go back to Germany again and therefore travel a bit more

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[Hood]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Have you lost your mind?

England (including all other countries, Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland, as was appropriate at this time to refer to them simply as England) and France declared war on Germany.

Dispite numerous peace offers of Germany (or the 3rd Reich if you prefer), we the English (British) declined, even when Hitler offered to step down... These peace offering and nogotiations even encluded Rudolf Hess (2nd deputy of Germany) flying to Scotland to reason with the Duke of Hamilton.... In short NSDAP Germany went to great lengths not to war with England. Through the situation England which found the situation of events distasteful - waged war on Germany upon the will of only one man - Winston Spencer Churchill - Lord of the Admiralty.

...

"Victory, Victory at all costs!" A victory that cost the English (yes Im English but I was not there) an Empire! An Empire that was put up as collatoral for the massive and extorsionate loans from the USA and other countries.

Winston Spencer Churchill, syphilis sufferer, was a Veteran of the colonial wars (he had to do the exam 3 times at sandhurst to become an officer because he failed it twice!) in India and Africa. He was fighting for Englands (Britians) sake, for an Empire he "cashed in" to fight the Germans! Only Great Britain was to rule the world - having the largest empire in the world EVER!

What ever you believe (and I am not pro NSDAP or anything else but a human being!) you must consder the historical importance from before and after this time!


In short patriotism is for C****!

My considered but non-medical opinion is that you're either completely mad or a complete fool. WW2 may very well have had its roots in WW1 but ultimately it was started by Germany's invasion of Poland and Britain doing what she said she'd do for Poland and thereafter France. I believe it was Chamberlainthat declared war with the support of Parliament but I can't be bothered to research it.

Now of course we could have had an armistice with Germany, and left most of Europe in German hands until they'd finished with Russia before starting on us, but I can't quite bring myself to believe that any pact with Germany would have been honoured.

But anyway I have no idea what this has to do with the original post. Avro, as a Brit I'm happy to fly Luftwaffe planes and through it now have some great German and Austrian friends. In fact I prefer Luftwaffe aircraft to RAF aircraft though the Spit is the most beautiful plane ever.

Hood



BBC

1939: Britain and France declare war on Germany
Britain and France are at war with Germany following the invasion of Poland two days ago.
At 1115 BST the Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, announced the British deadline for the withdrawal of German troops from Poland had expired.

He said the British ambassador to Berlin had handed a final note to the German government this morning saying unless it announced plans to withdraw from Poland by 1100, a state of war would exist between the two countries.

Mr Chamberlain continued: "I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received and consequently this country is at war with Germany."

Similarly the French issued an ultimatum, which was presented in Berlin at 1230, saying France would be at war unless a 1700 deadline for the troops' withdrawal was adhered to.

King George has called upon "my people at home and my peoples across the seas". He continued: "I ask them to stand calm, firm and united in this time of trial. The task will be hard. There may be dark days ahead and war can no longer be confined to the battlefield. But we can only do the right as we see the right and reverently commit our cause to God."

A War Cabinet of nine members has been set up with two new ministers, including Winston Churchill as First Lord of the Admiralty, the post he held at the outbreak of World War I. Lord Hankey becomes Minister without Portfolio.

Anthony Eden will take over as Dominions Secretary with special access to the War Cabinet. Mr Eden resigned from the post of Secretary of Foreign Affairs last year because he disagreed with the policy of appeasement.

The National Service (Armed Forces) Act has been passed making all men between 18 and 41 liable for conscription. The armed forces have already been mobilized for war and in July the first Territorial Army conscripts were called up.

Latest reports from Poland say the Germans have bombed a number of towns and cities, some with little or no strategic importance. About 1,500 are reported to have been killed or injured in the attacks on Friday and Saturday.

In his broadcast to the nation, Mr Chamberlain spoke of his sadness that "the long struggle to win peace" had failed.

He continued: "I cannot believe that there is anything more or anything different that I could have done and that would have been more successful."

Yesterday there was anger in the House of Commons over the Government's apparent delay in taking action against Germany.

Labour's deputy leader Arthur Greenwood had accused the Prime Minister of vacillating when "Britain and all that Britain stands for are in peril".

Today's declaration of war was received with rousing cheers. As Mr Chamberlain informed the House Britain could not take part in a five-power conference proposed by Italy while Poland was being invaded.

It has also been received with great enthusiasm in the Polish capital, Warsaw, where crowds took to the streets outside the British and French embassies cheering and singing.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Hood

My considered but non-medical opinion is that you're either completely mad or a complete fool. WW2 may very well have had its roots in WW1 but ultimately it was started by Germany's invasion of Poland and Britain doing what she said she'd do for Poland ...

Yes Poland, the Polish that were good enough to fight and die for the Glorious British Empire and then whom were left under Soviet control.... BETRAYED by the English! The Soviets that exterminated the Polish officer Corps? AKA - The Katyn massacre

It might have been Chamberlain that declared war but as he resigned in the face of war it was left to the new PM to conclude the fact!

as for the BBC - forget it. They are a media organisation "independant of the government" apparently. Reporting of non facts is not a crime of news broadcasters. They can print what they like.

Originally Posted by Hood

But anyway I have no idea what this has to do with the original post

Quite allot if you care to read it again:

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

Hi all,

I regard myself as educated. I have a good university degree, I went to what is regarded as a 'good' school and I enjoy all periods and aspects of history. I value reasoned and at times unreasoned debate!

As regards Cliffs of Dover, I cannot bring myself to 'fly' German aircraft. I used to fly German aircraft in il2 1946 against Russian aircraft online without a problem. Maybe this was a Cold War hang-over??

Perhaps the problem is caused by an 'enemy' attacking my home?? Yes, I realise that it's not real and it all comprises digital ones and noughts etc. But overflying Dover, Brighton and Manston with such good maps does bring it home to me.

How would our German members here feel about an RAF Bomber Command and US 8th bomber assault on their country as a simulator? Would a few German members fly Lancasters and B-17s?

What are the opinions of today's Neutrals?

And as I have mentioned in a previous thread, this post is in no way a condemnation of today's Germany. Germany is my second home. Britain and Germany lost their way in 1914 because of politicians and again in 1939. And our beer tastes the same And we have the same Royal Family

And many of us have similar DNA

How's the Euro at the moment



Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Please dont pretend this is all cut and dry of the baddies versus the goodies.


For your records,

• my Grandmothers brother (fathers mother) was a stoker on an LCT at Dieppe - KIA
• My Grandfather was a a rating on a Royal Navy (converted trawler) minesweeper 1943+ including D-Day - survived (although its partner sister ship was blown to smitherenes with the loss of all hands whilst dragging a cable and cutter over sea mines!)
• My fathers uncle was a Bomber pilot (Jack Roberts - DFM) who worked his way from Sterlings and Hampdens to mosquito intruder squadrons. (of which I can find no trace online in any free archieves) - Survived
• My fathers mother was a WRAF plotter - Survived

Peace.

[bongodriver]

Once the Soviets decided to betray the west and take what chunk of europe it could I don't think there was much Britain could have done about it.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Have you lost your mind?

England (including all other countries, Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland, as was appropriate at this time to refer to them simply as England) and France declared war on Germany.

Dispite numerous peace offers of Germany (or the 3rd Reich if you prefer), we the English (British) declined, even when Hitler offered to step down... These peace offering and nogotiations even encluded Rudolf Hess (2nd deputy of Germany) flying to Scotland to reason with the Duke of Hamilton.... In short NSDAP Germany went to great lengths not to war with England. Through the situation England which found the situation of events distasteful - waged war on Germany upon the will of only one man - Winston Spencer Churchill - Lord of the Admiralty.

"Victory, Victory at all costs!" A victory that cost the English (yes Im English but I was not there) an Empire! An Empire that was put up as collatoral for the massive and extorsionate loans from the USA and other countries. An Empire which granted some states independance in exchange for service to the British Realm in exchange if they fought for Britian! - Indian Regiments for example! An Empire WS Churchill was trying to save!

Winston Spencer Churchill, syphilis sufferer, was a Veteran of the colonial wars (he had to do the exam 3 times at sandhurst to become an officer because he failed it twice!) in India and Africa. He was fighting for Englands (Britians) sake, for an Empire he "cashed in" to fight the Germans! Only Great Britain was to rule the world - having the largest empire in the world EVER! It was Mutually Assured Destruction before the cold war!

What ever you believe (and I am not pro NSDAP or anything else but a human being!) you must consder the historical importance from before and after this time!


I'd also like to point out Germany finally repaid its War reperations a few years ago:

Wikipedia (unreliable)



Wheras England and the USA never paid any reperations for the crimes against humanity for Dresden, Hamburg, Nagasaki or Hiroshima! The VICTORS write the rules...

In short patriotism is for C****!

Truly one of the most bizarre postings ever made on a flight sim forum.

Farber, where on earth do you get your information?
Churchill suffered from Syphilis!? Hitler offered to step down?? Roflmao!!
The war was Churchills decision alone!!? The clip you posted gives you the lie to that statement anyway. When Chamberlain stepped down as PM in May 1940 there were two choices to succeed him. Churchill or Halifax. Whoever was PM had to command the support of the Labour party to form a national government. The Labour party did not trust Halifax. They turned to Churchill because the mood of the country was defiance.

Everyone realised that to make terms with Hitler meant the end of our freedom and the end of any hopes of freedom for the rest of Europe.

You don't, by any chance get your information from some sort of....er....right wing political websites do you? Just askin'.