Alchemy - Neatness Part Deux

[ckdamascus]

This has been debated before, but with the new spells costing a bit more in the crystal department, I wonder if one point in alchemy is needed or more.

It has been a while since I have gone through as an Impossible Mage Nearly No Loss, but I was fairly certain that I barely had enough crystals when I had neatness level 1.

I don't mega-farm (e.g. do the triple treasure chest thing) as much. I usually only use a small set of spells, but I just don't want to get caught with my panties down so to speak.

Is Level 1 neatness enough to get every spell in the game? (Pretty sure the answer is no).

Level 3 neatness? Does that increase the crystal break down or just the runes?

Level 1 neatness and Level 1 alchemy?

[DGDobrev]

I always go for level 3 neatness and level 0 alchemy. However, it is important to note that a mage thrives on knowing what spells to use and what spells to level up.

For example, this is my usual set of spells:

1. Defensive spells.
Stone Skin
Healing
Magic Spring
God Armor
Slow
Target (it's defensive, really)
Time Back

2. Offensive spells.
Flaming Arrow
Poison Skull
Geyser
Death Star

3. Support spells.
Eviln
Resurrection
Haste
Calm Rage
Sacrifice
Trap
Phantom

4. Other not-so useful but nice to have spells:
Battle Cry
Dragon Arrows
Call Phoenix
Oil Mist
Awaken Dragon
Demon Portal or Nature Call (fresh corpses for eviln)

I rarely use more than what I put here, but I guess I will have to try out the new spells as well, so some crystals are bound to fall there as well.

[Saiko Kila]

I have Neatness Level 1 and Alchemy Level 3 since about Level 16-18 Hero, and my crystals number is nil. And I have only Order Magic maxed. The problem with Neatness is I try to destroy only cheapest items in the first half (or even two thirds) of game, because I don't know which sets I'll get. Of course, this is that way only because I have to have every spell encountered in my spellbook, but on the other hand I level up only spells I use. And I use lots of spells.

[BB Shockwave]

Don't forget that in AP, you can trade in surplus magic crystals for runes. I plan to have high level neatness and as I am playing paladin, only learn the spells I want to use (no sense in learning any Chaos magic damage spells or Sheep, Doom, Lightning etc...) - I will keep those crystals, and trade them in for runes to boost my Rune Mages.

On Normal, you have tons of crystals, even without Neatness. I remember on my first walkthrough of AP with a warrior, I learned all the spells and got them to high levels because I wanted to test them... and I was still left with lots of surplus crystals.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Saiko Kila

I have Neatness Level 1 and Alchemy Level 3 since about Level 16-18 Hero, and my crystals number is nil. And I have only Order Magic maxed. The problem with Neatness is I try to destroy only cheapest items in the first half (or even two thirds) of game, because I don't know which sets I'll get. Of course, this is that way only because I have to have every spell encountered in my spellbook, but on the other hand I level up only spells I use. And I use lots of spells.

That's a lot of crystals to use early on. I am a little surprised you've used them up all ready with just order Magic. Helplessness, dispel (level 1, maybe level 2), healing maybe, Phoenix perhaps?

I'm almost at end of game, and couldn't quite afford to learn all the new spells, but then again some look absolutely terrible (The spit one for instance, which does fixed after effect damage... maybe it was good at level 1).

[Saiko Kila]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

That's a lot of crystals to use early on. I am a little surprised you've used them up all ready with just order Magic. Helplessness, dispel (level 1, maybe level 2), healing maybe, Phoenix perhaps?

I'm almost at end of game, and couldn't quite afford to learn all the new spells, but then again some look absolutely terrible (The spit one for instance, which does fixed after effect damage... maybe it was good at level 1).

Yes, the spit is a waste now, but it's good at low level, because the poison is also fixed damage, not by percentage like all other poisons. Or to kill off severely damaged stack.

I'm surprised that I use too many crystals too, but most of the spell is on Level 1, I just scribe whatever and whenever I can. I have an artifact which gives 4 chests per battle, and have luck with spells so cannot buy them because of overfilling

My maxed Order are Call of Nature, Helplessness, Magic Pole-axe, Dispel, Healing, Avenging Angel, Peacefulness, Call Phoenix, Resurrection. I'm trying to max Lightning, Ice Thorns, Battle Cry, Bless, Dragon Slayer, Demon Slayer. I was thinking about Calm Rage, but with Lizard Gloves it's obsolete. But I also got second level of Chaos and can level to three (but won't for a moment, because I like Rune Mages too much ) These all spell are truly crystal suckers. And I found some other spells which I can't buy right now, so for me both Alchemy and Neatness are must.

[Hunkie]

This may be a little off topic, but I'd like to ask about your choice of spells. What is the best way to use Time Back? Is the spell like Teleport+Healing or what?

[Swindley]

Originally Posted by Hunkie

This may be a little off topic, but I'd like to ask about your choice of spells. What is the best way to use Time Back? Is the spell like Teleport+Healing or what?

Well, it does exactly like the name applies, it turns back time for the selected troop, along with all benefits and diadvantages that might bring

It puts the troop in the state it was at the previous turn (positioning, losses, buff etc)
Meaning you can lose alot of troops, then turn back time to restore them. However if you first healed or buffed it, then turned back time after, it would also undo that, so use it wisely
Usually people use it to restore troops that they just lost.
________
Cumshot Porn

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Saiko Kila

Yes, the spit is a waste now, but it's good at low level, because the poison is also fixed damage, not by percentage like all other poisons. Or to kill off severely damaged stack.

I'm surprised that I use too many crystals too, but most of the spell is on Level 1, I just scribe whatever and whenever I can. I have an artifact which gives 4 chests per battle, and have luck with spells so cannot buy them because of overfilling

My maxed Order are Call of Nature, Helplessness, Magic Pole-axe, Dispel, Healing, Avenging Angel, Peacefulness, Call Phoenix, Resurrection. I'm trying to max Lightning, Ice Thorns, Battle Cry, Bless, Dragon Slayer, Demon Slayer. I was thinking about Calm Rage, but with Lizard Gloves it's obsolete. But I also got second level of Chaos and can level to three (but won't for a moment, because I like Rune Mages too much ) These all spell are truly crystal suckers. And I found some other spells which I can't buy right now, so for me both Alchemy and Neatness are must.

I never scribe spells until I need them. And if the spell book is getting a bit overflow like, I sell them to a castle, so I can buy them back later.

I have like a spare 90 crystals just in case I need to level 3 a spell I get. I just got turn back time, but as it stands, I don't need it yet, so I would rather not spend the crystals. I also don't need to or want to max out sacrifice, since it is too mana intense for what I perceive as little benefit at this stage of the game for me. (4 trolls is enough for now, even though I can carry 9, but can't find the others yet).

I probably would not have picked all of those spells, but it is interesting to see how everyone has a different strategy.

Of your list, I have maxed

Healing, Call Phoenix, Resurrection.

Later on, if it turns out I can use ranged units, I might max Helplessness, but I didn't even learn it yet. I might also max Dispel, I only have one level on it.

[Saiko Kila]

Dispel is good when you have your troops buffed, I max it maybe not ASAP but quite fast. I don't like returning to castle, and I use sacrifice a lot because of leveling and leadership bonuses I don't have trolls, instead I suck from Rune Mages (buffed to max with Mind Runes).

Yes, everyone has a strategy (or couple of strategies) which suits him/her best. I noticed that of three spells I use most only Phoenix is Order Magic. Oil Mist and Flame Arrow are not, just like Trap, Fear or Stone Skin. But Phoenix should be maxed, and these other spells work almost as well at level one, IMO.