bullet types effects changed-strange results!

David198502 · #1 10-05-2012, 04:56 PM

hey guys!

it seems, that with the beta patches, now the effects of different bullet types have changed and give some strange results...and it seems to be more likely to be a unintentional bug, or mabye some details were cut out, instead of beeing improved...
yeah i know david is whining again...but
we as a squad have tested this now for two whole days(both days several hours) on a lobby server.

first of all: 109s now seem to catch fire after a birst of about 1-2 seconds every time, regardless of the type of ammunition.

b-Beobachtung doesnt have any effect at all anymore except on a 109.for testing purposes i have set the server to unlimited ammo.i put in my MGs only B-Beobachtung bullets, and tried to shoot a squadmate who was sitting first in a spit, then hurri, and then in a 109.

the spit showed no damage at all, even after 5minutes of continuous bursts.after that we gave up, and my squadmate crashed on purpose...the surprising part was, that the server stated only that he crashed, and not that i shot him....i did no damage to him whatsoever

in the hurri it was exact the same outcome...no damage whatsoever

in the 109....two seconds burst and it went up in flames, burning the pilot to death!got credit for the kill.

this definitely changed, as B-Beobachtung was very effective before the beta patches.it was not only showing where you placed your bullets, but also was very effective in shooting off elevators and ailerons, as well as it seemed to be effective to set things on fire...engines of bombers for example.
(note: im not sure with which beta it changed, but i assume, that it was with the first one already...as we as a squad noticed that we cant set spitfires on fire anymore,....or only very very rarely)

if you put only B-Beobachtung in your spitfire loadout, then it will have no effect either, not even on the 109!

then we tried to put all sorts of bullet types into the belts and tested....the strange outcome was, that all now seems to be very very random....SMKH for example can put surfaces on fire sometimes(like elevators)

it now seems really to be more important which plane your enemy flies, than what bullet type you have loaded....spits are very hard to put on fire where the pilot burns to death for example(in fact it was impossible for us in those two days to manage it once, except when we left the plane with ALT F2, and gave the AI the command of the plane...then it was still hard but possible to set the spit on fire,...and again regardless of ammunition type!)

even more strange is, that i manage it constantly when i fly offline!spits are still the most resistant planes, but they will catch fire sooner or later..

then, so many people complained, about the fuel tank bug about the 109.where the tank explodes, but the 109 goes on flying...i agree with that

but: hurris always had the same problem, and for spits its almost impossible to let the fuel tanks explode at all.....i would say its impossible but i have managed it exactly once in those one and a half years,...while steam stats claim that i have shot down 20 000 spits.

dont get me wrong please!i think its ok that after a two second birst where most of the bullets hit the 109, the plane should light up like a candle....but not every time!but certainly very often!
but this should be the case for all fighters at least, and not every single time....on hurris its a different thing...if you know where to aim, they go up in flames as well,and there it seems more reasonable, as it happens often, but not every time.the spit seems to be a tank in this regard, especially if a human pilot is in command...even if he flies straight and level.

im really confused about this,....and what im trying to reach with this thread is....well to get answers...maybe Luthier or BlackSix can enlighten us!if all this is just like its supposed to be, or if a bug made its way into the complicated DM model,... or maybe if they have dumbed down the effects for some reason...

oh and before i forget it: we also found out, that it can be the case, that if you have for example a loadout without tracers,...and shoot at the enemy,...your enemy can still see tracers sometimes....this is not every time the case, but still possible!

everything very strange...

EDIT: THERE HAS TO BE A DIFFERENT ISSUE!

notafinger! · #2 10-05-2012, 06:49 PM

Hi David,

Interesting results. I have noticed in this latest RC patch that 109 fuel tanks no longer explode but will burn with the pilot dying soon after. I think it is quite safe to say the the 109 in CloD has no pilot/fuel tank armor.

Also, Spitfires don't burn...ever. Sure sometimes you can set a fabric covered control surface on fire but it won't have any lasting effect, even on maneuverability. If you really lay into a Spitfire sometimes maybe you see some little bit of fire coming out the engine exhausts. But never once in all of the Spitfires I have shot down on ATAG, SOW, Repka, or offline shooting brainless AI flying straight and level have I seen a Spitfire have a fuel tank fire like all of the other a/c in CloD suffer from. 100's of engines knocked out and pilots killed by mg and cannon rounds and not one fuel tank fire. I know the Spitfire was a great a/c but it did not exactly have a reputation for ruggedness/durability. I can't think of any liquid cooled fighter that did.

David198502 · #3 10-05-2012, 09:32 PM

http://www.zg26.de/index.php?option=...kel&Itemid=114

according to this article, the B-Beobachtung should be very effective, in regards of explosvie and ignition effects.so the former effects seemed to be pretty accurate...

Catseye · #4 10-05-2012, 10:33 PM

Yes David,
There is something changed.

I have tested all loadouts on bombers and find that there is only damage to the elevators and rudder - never to the wings skin or fuselage.

Also, it doesn't seem to matter which loadout us used the results are the same.

109's smoke and burn with flames all along the wings but fuel tanks do not explode.

110's are almost impossible to shoot down regardless of the number of hits.

Something had changed.

Perhaps you had better post your findings in the bugs thread.

JG52Uther · #5 10-05-2012, 10:46 PM

Yes, put it in the bugs thread please.
Now I need to change my ammo belts, as it might explain why a Spit was ignoring me online yesterday...

Hellbender · #6 10-05-2012, 11:29 PM

Yesterday, my Spitfire Ia_oct started burning after having been hit by a 109 with cannon and MG rounds. There was definite fire just behind the cockpit and a long trail of smoke behind my plane near Falkstone. However, I can´t tell whether it were the MG or the Cannon rounds making me burning like a candle. Took a pretty heavy burst into my fuselage, so I had to jump from the flamming wreckage.

SlipBall · #7 10-06-2012, 06:36 AM

I think luthier said that they reworked the various planes skins/A plates. I notice a difference but not a show stopper. I don't use incendiaries so cannot make a judgment on them.

David198502 · #8 10-06-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Yes, put it in the bugs thread please.
Now I need to change my ammo belts, as it might explain why a Spit was ignoring me online yesterday...

its already in the bug thread!
i have linked a comment in the bug thread with this thread...

SlipBall · #9 10-06-2012, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David198502

its already in the bug thread!
i have linked a comment in the bug thread with this thread...

David, I really hate to disagree with you, but I just tested the b-Beobachtung round. Using just the b-Beobachtung load, and limited to very short burst. The Rotol, Spit 1, Spit 1a all three pilots bailed out all most instantly. Maybe your issue is an on-line problem that the devs could look at. I think you should test the round as I did in off-line mode, just so that you can confirm my findings.

David198502 · #10 10-06-2012, 08:10 AM

hey slipball!
no no no...no problem and good that you tested it yourself!
but,...before i posted this, i tested it offline to make sure its not only in online mode...and theres another strange thing,...offline the damage model seems to be indeed different to the online one(but that could be because of AI flying differently)

but, i shot at spits with only B-Beobachtung, and the spit didnt show no damage whatsoever, except, that the tailwheel catched fire...so the stupid AI bailed as well pretty quickly!BUT: the game didnt recognize the burning tailwheel as any damage, and when the spit went into the channel, the game message only showed that it crashed...(note: that was after i had shot a continous burst of about ~10seconds bullseye)

and this seems in fact the only visual damage the b-beobachtung is now capable off...no real damage whatsoever.you wont see any other damage.
plz try again,...im pretty confident that you come to the same conclusion!

PS: did you make sure, that you really have only B-Beobachtung in your belts??did you make your own mission for it, to garantuee not to have a wrong loadout?