water cannon

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Lixma

So they aren't much good at preventing crime.

yes they are, it just has nothing to do with criminals, since they already have firearms. What did they find on the scum that was killed by the police in London?

Arming the police and allowing the public access to firearms are separate arguments. I'll let the police decide.

I agree, and firearms are already accessible by the public, albeit in a restricted form.

[Vengeanze]

Hehe, mention firearms to an american and he screams "second amendment" and starts singing the anthem.

Gun homicide per 100,000 population:
USA 3.98
Canada 0.4
England/Wales 0.15

Have fun doing what you're doing while we here in Sweden have intercourse with bikiniteams and polarbears.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Will the UK's crime rate go up, down or be un-affected by gun ownership?

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

The crime rate won't be affected.

Originally Posted by Lixma

So they aren't much good at preventing crime.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Yes they are.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Lixma

erm,I believe you misinterpreted what I meant.. It won't affect crime because criminals already have guns.. do I seriously have to explain this bit again?

[Lixma]

You can't simultaneously hold the positions that :-

A) Gun ownership prevents crime.

and....

B) Crime rates in the UK will be unaffected by public ownership of firearms.

If gun ownership prevents crime then all things being equal the the crime rate should come down after its introduction.

But if, as you said, the crime rate will remain un-affected then in what tangible sense has gun ownership prevented crime?

[ATAG_Doc]

I never understand people who really believe that taking guns from law abiding people would make a safer place where no one will be hurt by crime. They have way too much dependency on institutions to live and eat.

Muggings without guns mean less lethal? That's hilarious. The point is less muggings not less chance of losing life due to lead poisoning.

Just ask yourself if you were very very hungry and just had to eat and you have two people and you had to roll one of the for cash to afford to eat.

One holding a gun in his right hand and foaming at the mouth, smiling, laughing in such a such a way his belly fat jiggles and he is winking at you, licking his lips, blows a kiss your way and he's holding one hundred dollars cash in his left hand and the other subject is just holding the cash, which would you choose?

Just answer that to yourself because anyone with common sense knows that answer.

[Rattlehead]

If people want to own guns, that's their business. Personally, I don't want the responsibility of owning a firearm.
Touch wood, so far I have never been in a bad situation where having one would have been convenient.

[Vengeanze]

Originally Posted by timej31

I never understand people who really believe that taking guns from law abiding people would make a safer place where no one will be hurt by crime. They have way too much dependency on institutions to live and eat.

Checking the stats I must admit there are other countries who have higher killrates by firearms than the US...like Colombia, Albania and the Phillipines.
By the way, what's the requirements to legally buy a gun in the US? Clean record or? And can I take my gun with me to the pub for a pint with friends?

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Vengeanze

Checking the stats I must admit there are other countries who have higher killrates by firearms than the US...like Colombia, Albania and the Phillipines.
By the way, what's the requirements to legally buy a gun in the US? Clean record or? And can I take my gun with me to the pub for a pint with friends?

I purchase from gun shows locally here in Texas now and then. They have them every month. When I have done so you just decide what you want and they make you fill out this paperwork and you have to have proper ID of course. Wait for about 15 minutes while you're background is being checked - usually buying ammo or reloading supplies during this wait. Then they'll call your cell phone to tell you that you're approved and give you receipt and your gun and that's it. You have to 18 or over and a clean criminal background.

Taking it into bar is not allowed. State law provides that any business can forbid carrying of a firearm on their property. They display this sign iat the entrance of the establishment.


However a business owner can pack heat all he wants to in his own business and even wear it visible. Many pawn shops have all their people working there packing heat. They never have anything happen in them bad.

I feel safest in these places.

Trust me when I tell you this because I've lived here my entire life. Everyone I know and I mean EVERYONE I know owns and or carries a gun on them all the time. Guns are not rare they're every where.

[DayGlow]

Originally Posted by unreasonable

A "we know better" attitude is hardly confined to the British!

The point is that if everyone is allowed to have a gun, then it rapidly becomes necessary for everyone to have one, as an arms race between criminals and citizens sets in. While if no-one has one, this is a common good. I agree that it makes burglary more common - but it also reduces the lethality of muggings.

There is also the accident rate to consider - I am too lazy to look it up but I would make a wager that the rate of deaths by accidental shooting in the US is higher than the UK's entire murder rate, whether inflicted with gun, knife or horrible food (eg the "Great British Sausage").

I would prefer to live in a society free of handguns and assault rifles, (although I am quite familiar with their use), but I recognize that this is not a realistic option for the USA given the NRA and the sheer number of guns in circulation.

And the death rate from automobiles is astronomically higher than either stat, so wouldn't be more prudent to get rid of cars because thy statistically kill a lot more people than any other weapon?