ok... who switched my B-17's armour for papier maché?

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by Xx RTEK xX

Yeah the damage numbers on this game suck. They really need to go back and fix some things.

Especially that B-17. I put a couple rounds into one online, and it went down.

its better then not being able to be shoot it down at all

[House MD 221B]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

its better then not being able to be shoot it down at all

only if you suck as a fighter pilot, there shouldn't be exceptions for people who don't know how to shoot right... LEARN.

nerfing plane armour to help idiots is not a noble cause for a destruction of a plane's stats.

learn the planes weak speaks and shoot right, you shouldn't be able to just clip a plane like that and it go down.

I suck as a fighter pilot, i get it, im ok with it, i AM however a good bomber pilot, and i should not be penalised for being a good bomber pilot and gunner, because other people aren't good at flying fighters either.

[Kirill Yudintsev]

BTW
B-17 wasn't very armoured plane, in fact.
It can take lots of damage and even land without 1\3 of wing surface, 2 from 4 engines sometimes and other outstanding things.
But the best armour of it were gunners and that B-17 most times flew in super formations with lots of planes - that means tons of lead from all their gunners.
B-17 usually flew in amounts like 50 to one enemy fighter.

So it was very good plane and very safe as a bomber.

But not more.
Common bomber had 6 flights on enemy territory during WWII (while common fighter had 50 flights, and common attacker -11).
You can find in luftwaffe pilots diaries that it was real challenge - to come close enough to attack B-17 vitals - engines, fuel tanks, pilots. And they selm did it. But when they did it - B-17 became very vulnerable. May be less then other heavy bombers, but enough.
Also Korean war showed even more - B-29 (not B-17 but even greater bombers) were very easy targets for Soviet MiG-15 (their 37mm and 2x23mm cannons are not much better then cannons of world war II) - just because MiG-15 were much faster them fighters of WWII and can get much closer and then get away.

So, even if B-17 in game are not as good as they were in damage they can take (it can be - we didn't test it enough for reasons above) the problem is deeper - game situations are not like '100 B-17 against 16 109'. Not even close to.

PS I've checked it. Yes, you right we have something incorrect in B-17 Damage model. The main thing is that b-17 have to be able to take more damage on wing and tail surfaces.
Vitals (like engines and fuels) seem to be correct.
But inaccuracies are seem to be in 30% range (have to check more). And it is much harder to shoot down B-17 by damaging it surfaces then by destroying it's engines\pilots and so on, even occasionally.
Cannot promise that will be updated in this title update (guess why.

[House MD 221B]

Thanks Kirill.

I really appreciate you taking the time to make a post.

That sounds fantastic and yes i appreciate the game ratio is VASTLY different to RL scenarios

do you have any comments on the turret issues? or perhaps an auto-feather system?

i'd love to see it worked on, but i understand it wont be in the next update, you guys must be snowed under with cockpits etc. etc.

I recognise there's hundreds if not thousands of various requests, so thank you again for taking the time to respond to this one.

[FOZ_1983]

ALOT of elements in this game sucks. For £40 im allowed to be selfish. Or to put that £40 another way.... a full days work!!

The B17 takes far to long to unlock as it is...then its ridiculously weak and some guns dont fire where they should be able to, the P51... inaccurate.

The whole thing feels shoddy and like its been rushed.

The BoB campaign flying the spitfire Mk2...... why?? really?? realistically HOW HARD can it be to just get rid of the 2 cannons and also change the camo colour? its a piece of piss. I know im sounding like a selfish arrogant nasty little twat with all this but after speaking with a few of the forum regulars (xbox live players) on live, we all agreed that some things just didnt add up at all.

I for one absolutely love the game and can look past all these huge errors, i just feel slightly let down.

Give me grief and flame me all you want, i have broad shoulders i can take it. Mayve i deserve it, but as lnog as i got my 2 cents in, then i will happily take the shit im probably about to recieve.

[MorgothNL]

Originally Posted by FOZ_1983

ALOT of elements in this game sucks. And whats more is the fact that anton and co were ever present upto the release of the game and shortly after, but not now!! granted they are having hols etc, they deserve it. But some input from someone would be nice. Anyone!! selfish of me i know, but to be quite frank i dont care. For £40 im allowed to be selfish. Or to put that £40 another way.... a full days work!!

The B17 takes far to long to unlock as it is...then its ridiculously weak and some guns dont fire where they should be able to, the P51... inaccurate.

The whole thing feels shoddy and like its been rushed.

The BoB campaign flying the spitfire Mk2...... why?? really?? realistically HOW HARD can it be to just get rid of the 2 cannons and also change the camo colour? its a piece of piss. I know im sounding like a selfish arrogant nasty little twat with all this but after speaking with a few of the forum regulars (xbox live players) on live, we all agreed that some things just didnt add up at all.

I for one absolutely love the game and can look past all these huge errors, i just feel slightly let down.

Give me grief and flame me all you want, i have broad shoulders i can take it. Mayve i deserve it, but as lnog as i got my 2 cents in, then i will happily take the shit im probably about to recieve.

not going to flame you, even though a few things are a bit over the top.
The game is not perfect no, but the title update is going to make a lot of things right. You do realise this right?

I do agree that I think it is kind of strange that anton & co were so present here untill the release...and then nothing.

We just have to wait for the title update, to get really moneys worth. I can live with it , if this game is fixed, it will be the best game ever, and I wouldnt even mind paying double for it

[FOZ_1983]

I realised some of my errors and edited my post, but you were quick to the reply lol. All credit to you.

I look forward to the title update, i know (hope) it will fix many issues that plague this game. It just seems so "odd" in some areas.

For example.... this game is part of the IL2 franchise, and we all know exactly how authentic and serious it is. Its amazing!! where as say... blazing angels.... isnt authentic and is just a bog standard arcade shooter, YET blazing angels has you flying a spitMk1 in the battle of britain, like you should be! so why not IL2? its surely not that hard to fix. And no P51 cockpit? how hard can that be to put in their really? its ok blaming limits with cash etc, if thats the case then why not just use the cockpit from the P51B (thats not a P51B), since it looks closer to the D cockpit than the current one?

It just seems "fishy" that some of these thnigs have been missed out or over looked.

All the above aside.... i do truly love the game and think its incredible. The bst flying sim on console by far.

[Marchochias]

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

Really?

I've pumped a ton of lead into a B-17 with my Hurricane's 12 machine guns and it wasn't close to falling out of the sky.

To be fair, those Hurricane guns take forever to kill anything. I tried flying perfectly straight and level in Simulator to let a friend of mine try to shoot me down with the machine guns....they took so long that he actually used a rocket instead

[Steyr_amr]

Sort of agree with this, have played games where a single B-17 ended the whole show in minutes. However also remember fighting against a team with 2 fortresses skillfully piloted in the Emil and getting 6 kills on them. I was rather impressed with this (by my own meagre standards), however they still won the game.

Also remember watching guncam footage of a Zerstorer pumping cannon fire into the engine nacelles and wingroots of a B-17 from 6oclock, massive puffs, flashes and even chunks of airfame coming off it and still it plodded along until the 110 had to duck under it to avoid a collision.

Seems as though if they up-gun and up-armour the B-17 they need to reduce it's bombload to maintain balance.

Has anyone been using 262's against them... might be a thought...

[Vulcan607]

I was playing a strike match t`other day in which i in my spit mk2 played against 2 b-17 and got torn apart by duel machine guns, yet them suffering little damage from my cannons.