What is your vote for the most overpowered spell in the game?

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Um, you do realize that a lot of this is army dependant right? I mean, an army of level 5 units gets a whole lot more out of fear than one with level 3's in it.

Also, lets not compare how well a spell works against an opposing army of only melee units, since a LOT of spells will lock that particular guy down. Also take into account class.

Phantom's strength is based on two things: The leadership of the stack, and the intelligence of the hero. Since warriors have twice the leadership (roughly) of mages, their phantoms (without summoning) are twice the size, before intelligence is considered. Mage has to get a lot of int and other skills to get anywhere near what the warrior gets out of this spell.

Fear on the other hand is a control spell that will lock down a unit from attacking for most of the game. For a smaller army, this can often be more important than doing more damage. It also prevents a hero from casting, if his only stacks are feared. Also, don't compare a single phantom to a single fear, but rather a pair of fears, since a mage can cast it twice. They are both good spells to be sure.

Just because a spell worked great in one particular run-through doesn't mean it is 'overpowered' in all of them, since army makeup, items, and class changes between them.

Another mage player. Sorry, I'm not trying to bash the mage class at all, it's just that I was just commenting on what Harush mentioned, that Fear was better than Phantom for Paladin/Warrior due to mana issues.

Your comment about the level of the army is listed as one of the disadvantages that I listed for Fear. I understand your point, all spell strategies involve parallel army planning, it's just that I find Phantom has less restrictions than Fear.

You talk about locking down enemies with Fear, and I guess for a mage Fear might be better; I really don't know, I don't play mage. But as I've shown in my previous screenshot, I could "lock down" enemies with Phantom as well. I could actually lock down more of them, especially if they are melee. I could spam Phantom every round for a warrior since the Phantoms do battle and generate rage, which is converted to mana via mana accelerator.

[TemjinGold]

It really does depend on your army and hero. If you are a mage, Phantom is not nearly as strong since, starting early mid-game, your phantom does not have a chance of surviving even one round while Fear will still lock stacks down for four regardless of how big those stacks are.

For the fighter types, it won't be nearly as good since your phantoms CAN survive a lot of punishment and you can only cast 1 Fear per round.

[Elias_Maluco]

I think we can all agree that both spells are very useful. And so is target, stoneskin, time back, haste (lvl 3), magic spring, and I also love slow, specially early game.

Now I wonder what would be the most useless spell? I am personally very disappointed with all damage spells, but that' s probably because I havent played mage yet (finished with paladin, now using warrior).

[KongMysen]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

I could "lock down" enemies with Phantom as well. I could actually lock down more of them, especially if they are melee. I could spam Phantom every round for a warrior since the Phantoms do battle and generate rage, which is converted to mana via mana accelerator.

Thats a very good point. With mana accelerator and enormous rage generation warriors never have an issue with casting these 25 mana phantoms each round. Not lategame anyway. Phantom makes fear become obsolete.

I very often used the 2xfear in round 1 and 2 with my mage, and the spell was also offently used in my warrior game as well (Since phantom IS too expensive early game).
I just don't think either spell is overpowered, since none of them was urgenly "needed" in most of the battles.
More often did I cast oily mist+Fire Rain midgame and lategame it turned to Geyser lvl2+Geyserlvl3/Death Star.
The warrior mixed fear with other dissables like slow and trap

When fear isn't a favored spell mid- and lategame it's just not overpowered. It's good but not too good. Phantom was one of the the main reasons of succes in my Paladin + 4 other stack lineup in the warrior game. As mentioned, removing the abilities on phantoms would balance it a bit.

Stone Skin however.... imo it's by far THE best spell AND overpowered too. Nothing comes close, but then again... it's only my oppinion

[KongMysen]

Originally Posted by Elias_Maluco

I think we can all agree that both spells are very useful. And so is target, stoneskin, time back, haste (lvl 3), magic spring, and I also love slow, specially early game.

Now I wonder what would be the most useless spell? I am personally very disappointed with all damage spells, but that' s probably because I havent played mage yet (finished with paladin, now using warrior).

Dmg spells are for the mage. I remember playing an impossible mage game on KBTL and I rarely used dmg spells.

In KBAP you are going to love dmg spells. With Transmute, buffed concentration and the Mana Accelerator you can easily use 60-70 mana on round 1 and 2, and still manage to have plenty of mana for the rest of the battle.

I'm voting Call of Nature. Except you can use those to get an evlin.. Hmm. Lightning never comes close to Geyser bus cost nearly as much.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

Another mage player. Sorry, I'm not trying to bash the mage class at all....

So, I think there is a big difference here. I have played through the game many times, less than a third of which have been as a mage. You have ... never played as a mage at all? I don't really think you can use your own inexperience as somehow adding weight to your opinion. Sorry if that comes off as rough, but as someone who prefers warrior or Paladin, this pejorative comment followed by your admission of limited experience ticks me off.

Also, if you FEAR a stack, it prevents the enemy from casting a spell on the turn of that stack (even if they have someone to attack). This is 'locked down'. Unless you are phantoming dryads, ogres, or something else that can somehow negate a stacks turn, you are not 'locking it down'. I have used phantom a lot, especially as a warrior. I have used fear a lot, especially as a mage. I have used target and timeback and stone skin all a lot, as ANY class. Therefore I think of them as more universally better spells.

[ivra]

Originally Posted by Elias_Maluco

I am personally very disappointed with all damage spells, but that' s probably because I havent played mage yet ...

Want to try?
Check out this:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...204#post150204
It is an example of using the Armageddon spell against Moro, and it works very well

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

So, I think there is a big difference here. I have played through the game many times, less than a third of which have been as a mage. You have ... never played as a mage at all? I don't really think you can use your own inexperience as somehow adding weight to your opinion. Sorry if that comes off as rough, but as someone who prefers warrior or Paladin, this pejorative comment followed by your admission of limited experience ticks me off.

Also, if you FEAR a stack, it prevents the enemy from casting a spell on the turn of that stack (even if they have someone to attack). This is 'locked down'. Unless you are phantoming dryads, ogres, or something else that can somehow negate a stacks turn, you are not 'locking it down'. I have used phantom a lot, especially as a warrior. I have used fear a lot, especially as a mage. I have used target and timeback and stone skin all a lot, as ANY class. Therefore I think of them as more universally better spells.

My apologies for the comment, in hindsight it is quite offensive, especially directed at a player who plays and finishes the game multiple times using different classes. No need to apologize for your reactive statement, albeit admittedly a bit rough, is warranted in this case.

Going back to the topic at hand, I guess the reason why I think Phantom is the most overpowered spell is because of it's flexibility due to the fact that it doesn't have restrictions. Fear doesn't affect droids/undead/level 5 units. Target doesn't affect level 5 units. Mana Spring/Stone Skin/Turn Back Time are reactionary spells, focused on saving a single stack (though I understand how this could be powerful for single-stack strategies).

If I cast Phantom on a high-movement, high-initiative stack and land that Phantom stack in the front of enemy lines then there is no need for Target, almost all enemies would focus aggro on it, especially when you land it in front of the enemy range attackers. No need for Stone Skin or Turn Back Time since your real army would remain relatively intact. It tops Fear in that it deals damage and generates rage as well.

As for my "experience", in fairness, I do play in what I think are the most challenging parameters; for the KB series, I only play it with the goals of impossible difficulty/no-loss/fast time/high level. I played Paladin in KBTL:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=4864&page=12

In KBAP I have yet to finish my warrior game due to a stupid "quest"-related mistake:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=11137&page=4

But you are right, I guess I don't play as much as most players in this forum. I tend to play a game only once, and only play it multiple times if it poses a new challenge, and if I have the time. So take my 2-cents with a grain of salt.

[Zechnophobe]

It is definately difficult to to pin down the most important scenarios. My experience with no-loss games, is that the real point where you have to push spell selection and item selection to the limit is against Hero's, and against the final three big bosses. I'm fairly certain that you can do this with a warrior via a few different routes, and depending on the route, you will value different spells.

For instance, if you are going to make Droids your primary aggressor's, then phantom is both offensive and resurrection, which is a good combination. My play style is to use Dragons when I can, and I get a lot more out of timeback and Target in such scenario. 42 mana to remove all casualties from the first two turns is fast and efficient for that. I could also phantom a dragon stack for a second dragon stack, but as a purely aggressive move, it doesn't represent an answer against the biggest problems the army has: Big bad spells, 'halve', poison, dispel.

Black Knight-solo stack strategy doesn't really care about losses, as long as it can keep mana up, and keep replenishing with Eviln. Phantom probably isn't really worth it here, due to its mana cost, and the defensive nature of the build.

Anyhow, I think we've said all that needs saying on that regards. If we were to put up a 'best 5' spells, I'm sure most people would really only quibble on the top one or two:

1. Time Back
2. Target
3. Stone Skin
4. Phantom
5. Fear

Maybe people who actually use damage spells can weigh in on which are the truly good ones, but I really couldn't comment here.

[grimeleven]

My vote goes to Black Hole spell, 3300-5500 Astral Damage 60 mana (38int). In the battle vs Uchkuk his army vs me lvl54 mage normal was "invincible", round 1 boom he had 1/5 of his army left with 1 spell i was like "OMG" Overpowered much.

Finished off the rest in the same round lol and done it couple more times for other late game battles like those damned Black dragons.. toast