UP 3.0 vs HSFX 5.0?

[EZ1]

I was using UP 2.0.1 with 4.9. Then after all the servers went to 4.10.1 I got tired of waiting for UP 3.0 and installed HSFX 5.0 mostly to get 6DOF again. HSXF 5.0 seems to have everything I need. Can someone explain the defferences or advantages of one over the other?

[Ze-Jamz]

Best thing to do mate is to do to the ultrapack website and look at the read-me then decide for yourself..on top of that if youve got the SAS mod activator you can have both installs in one place just select what version you want to play and viola!

hth

[EZ1]

Neither readme compares one to the other. One thing I have seen in UP 3 that I think is really nice is the start menu, but I'm not sure how useful it would be to me as I rarely change setings. I am really interested in what others have to say.

[TeeJay82]

I wish UP and HSFX could get together and make a baby

[Bearcat]

I have two installs... the two are not compatible.. and may never be if I am reading between the lines on the SAS/UP forums.. I will always go with what ever mod pack works with the latest official patch.. For me UP ids ok.. it has it's plusses for sure.. but I want to stick with whatever the latest patch is and if UP brances off after 4.10.1 and decides to not go with 4.11 then I will be using UP strictly to keep up with what the other world is doing.. There is some goodness there.. in 3.0.. I like it but the squad is sticking with HSFX..

[Mustang]

HSFX 5.0 is oriented to SEOW !

http://wiki-seow-en.swil.fr/index.php/Main_Page


And have Aachens Flight Models - JGSME MOD

HSFX 5.0 Readme

Aachens Flight Models

A little Background:-

Aachen is a professional Aircraft design engineer, we were not sure if we wanted to go in this direction at first, but were so impressed by how much closer to what we have read flying some of these aircraft and fighting in them has come, that it was inconceivable to go back.

We hope that you share the views of the many 'test-pilots'. You retain a choice still anyhow. Using the full work is strictly optional.

Note:-
In Stock Configuration Oleg's Flyables are all Stock (by Oleg or TD) although all new aircraft * that Aachen has worked on have his FM's also.

In 'Expert Mode' All of the aircraft below use Aachens FM's.
We have altered the Netcode and the encryption for this mode, so that players cannot use the modified ‘Stock’ FM’s on stock servers.

Those that play online require very reasonably that everybody is playing with the same.
Expert mode is to protect this desire.
List of modified aircrafts

The complete list of planes modified is as follows:
Bf109:
E1, E1B, E3, E3b, E4, E4B, E4N, E7, E7N, E7NZ
F2, F2B, F2trop, F4, F4B, F4trop, F4Z
G1, G2, G2trop, G3, G4, G4trop, G5, G6early, G6Erla, G6Late, G6Mid, G6trop, G10, G10C3, G10Erla, G14, G14early, G14AS
K4, K4C3, K6, K14

Fw190:
A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A5-165, A7, A7sturm, A8, A9
F8
D9, D9late, D11, D13

G55:
G55, G55late, G55-ss0, G55-ss0late

MC:
MC200, MC202, MC205, MC205V

P51:
P51B, P51C, P51CM, P51D20, P51D20NT, P51D25, P51D30

P40:
P40B, P40C, P40E, P40E-M-105, P40M

P38:
P38J, P38J10LO, P38J15LO, P38J25LO
P38L, P38L5LO, P38Llate

P47:
P47D10, P47D22, P47D27, P47D27late

Foreword
The modifications of flight and engine models presented in this work have started with an analytical evaluation of aircraft performances. In the following paragraphs a short description of the methodologies adopted in the analytical study can be found, specifically for the evaluation of aircraft polars.

Wing and tail polar
Are computed by adopting lift line theory (Weiselberger) using non linear section lift data (J.C. Sivells, R.H. Neely). Compressibility effects are taken into account. Normally, lift distribution, finite wing Cy and Cx computed are in very good agreement with computations performed according to DATCOM method (ref. E. Torenbeek, Synthesis of subsonic airplane design). This is due to the fact that studied aircraft configurations are un-swept and have high aspect ratios.


Figure 1 – Lift coefficient distribution on half wing span (Bf109G2 at SL 530km/h). Cyan line is result computed with iterative method (NACA Report 865) while yellow line is result computed with DATCOM method


Figure 2 – Lift coefficient distribution on half wing span (Bf109G2 at 1000m 250km/h 2g level turn). This condition illustrates the determination of stall-limited turn rate (in this case stall is incipient at 0.6 x half-wingspan). A tolerance of 0.05 g has been used to predict ultimate wing load factor for both stall-limited and power-limited turn rates.

Fuselage polar
Drag computation for fuselage has been performed by using slender body formulation (ref. E. Torenbeek, Synthesis of subsonic airplane design). Lift induced drag is accounted for in the computation. Formulation for fuselage lift induced drag is given in referenced document.

Propeller
Propeller performance computations have been performed by means of blade element theory. In the present document, since no detailed description of propeller blades was available, the blade section has been assumed to be a flat plate. Optimal propeller (i.e. blade twist) has been computed in the condition of 100% throttle at sea level. Hence the propeller has been analysed for all beta angles in the range specified in EMD (propPhiMax and propPhiMin) at maximum propeller revolutions (constant rpm propeller), thus obtaining propeller efficiency curve at full power rpms.
It should be noted that the assumption made on blade section leads to under-estimation of propeller efficiency (up to 5% at maximum speed) thus leading to a conservative estimation of aircraft performance.

Propeller slipstream
Is computed using blade element theory adopted for propeller performances estimation. It is worth mentioning that actuator disc theory produces very similar results in terms of slipstream velocity and mass flow rate. This is due to the fact that considered propellers have low loading factor. For the purpose of this study the complete fuselage, radiators (under-wing and under-fuselage), inner wing section and tail assembly are considered to be completely inside the propeller slipstream. The inner wing section area enveloped by propeller slipstream has been computed considering the propeller radius/wing span ratio. This assumption leads to a slight over estimation of wing drag since propeller slipstream tube has a contraction after the propeller (about ¼ - ½ of propeller radius downstream of propeller) to its final radius.
Small summary of modifications – Aircarft polars

dCl/dα has been evaluated according to the following formula:

Clα = f Clαth /(E+Clαth/(π AR)) [rad-1]

where Clαth is the 2D section lift coefficient derivative and E=1+(2 TR)/(AR (1+TR))

Drag coefficient second derivative has been evaluated according to the following formula:

d2Cd/dα2 = Clα2/(π AR e)

Second derivative of drag coefficient has been corrected with twist factor.

Clmax has been computed by computing Cl spanwise distribution and assuming linear spanwise variation of 2D section Clmax (ref. example figure below):



Bf109 slats
Bf109 slats has been treated as follows:
according to literature (R&M 2361 [sept. 1940]) slats open at Cl approximately 0,85-0,95. Second order Cd derivative for complete wing with slats deployed is computed at 5,3E-4. In the following figure the Cd as function of α is reported.

Since it is not possible to impose the Cd jump corresponding to slat open condition, the Cd is simulated with a second order derivative of 5,8E-4 with 0,8ｰ offset (ref. figure below).

This approximation limits the error in Cd estimation within +5% immediately before and -5% immediately after slat opening. Error tends to 0 moving away from slat openin threshold.
P51s CoG

In the models presented in this work, the P51 CoG position has been moved forward to replicate the position of the CoG in the configuration with 25 gallons in the 85 gallons fuselage fuel tank. From literature data the CoG for P51D configuration with 25 gallons in the 85 gallons fuselage fuel tank is 28.3% MAC. The P51s with full 85 gallons fuselage fuel tanks were statically unstable and the normal operating procedures for planes in such a configuration demanded to empty the 85 gallons fuselage fuel tank before all other tanks. At anything below 35 gallons, the P51s equipped with 85 gallons fuselage fuel tank were both statically and dynamically stable [America Hundred Thousands et al.]. Since the simulator does not allow for CoG movement with regards to fuel usage, and since the unstable configuration reproduced in the original models was deemed too conservative, it has been decided to adopt a statically and dynamically stable configuration as normally happened during combat operations. It is advisable to adopt a maximum fuel load of 75%.

P47D27 Late

In the models presented in this work, the P47D27Late has been modelled to reproduce (as best as technically possible) the flight characteristics and performances of P47M.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I have two installs... the two are not compatible.. and may never be if I am reading between the lines on the SAS/UP forums.. I will always go with what ever mod pack works with the latest official patch.. For me UP ids ok.. it has it's plusses for sure.. but I want to stick with whatever the latest patch is and if UP brances off after 4.10.1 and decides to not go with 4.11 then I will be using UP strictly to keep up with what the other world is doing.. There is some goodness there.. in 3.0.. I like it but the squad is sticking with HSFX..

With regards to the RED text..

Not only is UP 3.0 not compatible with HSFX 5.0

UP 3.0 is not compatible with IL-2 4.10.1!

That is to say you can not join a stock IL-2 4.10.1 server (coop or DF) with UP 3.0 enabled.. EVEN IF THE SERVER SAYS IT ALLOWS MODS!

Which leads to my comment on the ORANGE text..

UP 3.0 has already branched off, that is to say you don't have to wait an see what UP 3.0 decides to do when 4.11 comes out, UP 3.0, as noted above, is not compatible with 4.10.1. And they have already stated they have no intentions of being compatible with any future official 1C/TD updates.

Therefore if you want to use mods, say the 6DOF mod and join a IL-2 4.10.1 server your only choice is to use HSFX 5.0, in that UP 3.0 will not be able to join a 4.10.1 server. The only servers you can join with UP 3.0 is UP 3.0 servers.

And you may want to keep this info under your hat.. Especially if you have an account at the UP and or SAS forums!

Because I brought this all up a few weeks ago at the AAS forums, and it upset the leaders of UP and SAS so much that they felt the need to rename my handle and changed my aviator to something very childish, heck the leaders at SAS was so upset that they even IP banned me from their server.

Which really shows you want kind of mind set your dealing with at those two sites.

Where if you post any info about UP or SAS that they perceived to be negative and you stand the chance of them getting so upset at you that they will change your forum handle, avaitor and/or banning you for something you said in 'ANOTHER' forum!

So keep that in mind if you choose to repeat what I pointed out here.

[ElAurens]

Cheesehawk, did you miss where ACE-OF-ACES said 1C/TD updates?

Team Diadalos is in fact the official Maddox Games sanctioned producer of content for IL2 1946.

Just sayin'.

I'm also kind of wondering where SAS got that AC 47 Spooky gunship from?

*COUGH*

[EZ1]

I've been running HSFX 5.0 on Skys of Valor for several weeks. SoV is a 4.10.01 server. No problem.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

There will be no more 1C updates, there haven't been any in years. The patches from 4.08 (if I remember correctly) through current are all by TD, who were given permission to release "official" content by Maddox Games, but were not involved in the creation of the original game.

So what part of me saying 1C/TD did you not understand?

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Also, I have yet to see any servers that are on 4.101 that you can run the HSFX mod on, although I could be mistaken.

You are mistaken

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Generally, they are stock 4.101, modded 4.101, HSFX, or UP3.0.

Disagree 100%

On just about any given day, most of the servers are standard/stock 4.10.1 servers

When I say most, I mean most popular servers, and by most popular I mean with at least 5 or more people in them. In that I have not bothered to count all the servers than are up 24/7 but have no one in them.

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

All are roughly incompatible with each other. If I'm wrong, show me the server, because honestly I'm a bit going from memory, but I haven't seen any servers where I could bring a HSFX plane with mods vs some poor guy in a stock plane and no mods...

Your wrong

And to show you, try an join any standard/stock 4.10.1 server with HSFX 5.0 and you will be able to join the server

Unless

The server sets the CRT value to 2, in which case the server typically states NO MODS allowed, and last time I check there are only a couple of servers that do that.