Singleplayer and realism

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

hmm ? Of course they where ...

HEAT was pretty rare at any time with any vehicle. Usualy the Panzer IV e would not carry more then eventualy 4 or 5. Same for the Stug with a short gun. The Sherman 75 received a few as well and probably many other tanks if they have been available.

Most guns used at least till 1940/41 simple AP penetrators which have been usualy steel. A few guns like the 2pf or was it 6pf ? used APDS or APCR.
~ It seems the 6 pounder received a few special shells:
Initially the anti-tank ammunition was represented by a basic Armour-Piercing (AP) shot, but by January 1943 an Armour-Piercing, Capped (APC) shot and an Armour-Piercing, Capped, Ballistically Capped (APCBC) shots were supplied. A HE shell was produced so that the gun could be used against unarmoured targets as well.
Thats what I could get from wikipeda. I had better pages but cant find them anymore. Anyway but I think the APCR really started to apear with the germans on the Panzer III in relation with the upguned Panzer III F or G eventualy which used the 5 cm gun now. But I am not sure. I would have to look deeper in it. But its definetly fact that HEAT shells have been always quite rare and many tanks didnt even got them ~ like the Panther. Particularly in the begining the understanding of HEAT and Shaped charges was not complet. So making them was quite difficult compared to usual AP shells. many times the HEAT shells have been used later to give guns of smaller caliber a increase in penetration that was in no relation to the used caliber as you could achieve that way much more penetration then with a usual AP shell of that size. THere have been also for example attempts to develop some kind of "rifle grenade" for weapons like the 3,7-cm Pak 35/36 to increase their power without developing a completely new weapon as with the start of the war the 37mm guns proved to be pretty useless ~ many times those weapons would have been give for example to troops of other nations which served either in the Wehrmacht or as support to the German Army like the Romanian divisions for example. But even this improvements proved to be of lidle value and served as nothing more then desperate attempts as they could not replace a larger gun like the Pak40/41,43 or even a tank.

HEAT, shaped charge whatever.

As I said, steel AP was NOT in use during WW2, at least not in serious use.

[Crni vuk]

please sources for that claim. Actualy most usual AP penetrators have been steel or aloys containing steel. For the Russians and US anyway. The quality of the shell was or is still dependant on the used material and alloy. And particularly the Soviets and US did tried not to use to many different materials to make sure the shells could be produced in large numbers so it was always available. So I say it again HEAT shells have been RARE while usual KE (kynetic energy) penetrators have been the NORM. APCB, APCBC and APCR and APDS have been known and (more or less) the common shells. For which the later APCR and APDS have been pretty rare. Only some British guns had APDS shells (from what I know), the Russians most of the time used usual AP or APC (SU100, Su85 etc.) while the Germans had the APCBC as standart and APCR in small numbers available.

~ when I am talking about "steel" I am talking about the alloys which was used for the shells.

[Nikitns]

hmm didn't know that. I thought pretty much all of them had explosives inside...

[Crni vuk]

well what was used many times as well was the APHE shell ~ but it was not orking on the principle of shaped charges or in other words HEAT they came later. At least in the begining when the velocity of anti tank guns was not that high. Expecialy the Germans made here quite good shells. It was basicaly a armor pearcing shell filed with explosives designed in a way that it should penetrate the enemy armor and explode inside not sure if they had a fuse for that but I think it started with originaly with naval guns as they needed both penetration and explosives to get a ship penetrating it alone would not always sink it. Precise methods of differentially hardening the projectile were developed in particular by the Germans for example so it could deal better with the shock of the penetration achieving much more success with their shells that way so premature explosions on impact have been less. Later they had to move toward shells with a hard core cause of increasing armor on the enemy side which required guns with high velocity and thus different materials and shapes of shells as the APHE shells did not worked so effectively with high velocity anti tank guns. So for example the APCR is a shell with some aloy on the outside and a very dense material as core or "second shell" inside increasing the penetration quality a lot (tungsten usualy) I think 3 times the size of the caliber even on long ranges compared to the usualy 2 or 1.5 times with APCBC

I wish I could get the books about it as there are many details behind it. And I am not a pro when it comes to that. So some details by me might be eventualy misleading.

[Nikitns]

heh, I checked and it turned out pretty much all AP shells had explosives inside, though often a very small amount (that's why AP rounds were called shells I guess). Problem was making efficient fuses for these explosives.

Without explosives the shells would do much less damage.

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by Zeke Wolff

Unfortunately Best Way made the very "wise" decision to have different weapon settings for SP and MP. MP works very well, whilst the SP weapons are incredible nerfed or overpowered, for example I´ve lost T34´s which has been hit frontally from extreme ranges by the short 75mm KwK37 used by the Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. F1, which in real life were extremely rare. In the SP game this happens more often than anything else.

All RPG weapons (panzerfaust, bazooka etc) also suffers from the same nerfing idioticy... however this was an easy fix.

To fix the SP values, you will need to rework all the guns available in the game, something that takes a lot of time. And I really don´t understand why most, if not all, vehicles in the game, has the correct fuel amount (more or less) in MP, whilst in SP all tanks etc has only 250 litres of fuel as maximum...

~Zeke.

Is it possible to play single player campaign with mutliplayer values? Like, just replace the SP files with the MP ones?

[Korsakov829]

Maybe. Won't know unless you try it.

[Feh]

So, nobody made a mod yet to fix the retarded penetration values for many guns in this game? I'm tired how may Pz II's I've lost to .50 cal penetrations from the front (if you wan't a laser guided weapon in this, game get the quad .50 cal AA: instantly kills infantry, and disable any tank from the side by destroying the tracks.) I'm also tired of losing Pz IV's to the 2pdr gun from the front.

[Feh]

Originally Posted by Korsakov829

Try SP on Hard, and look for any difference.

Like what?

[Zeke Wolff]

The 2pounder, were able to punch thru 56 or 57mm of armor and since the Pz4E and G only have 50mm of frontal armor, well you get the picture.

~Zeke.