Best General of WW2?

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

Well if it hadn't been stopped Germany would have lost much much sooner. It means something kid.

No Germany wouldn't. Lmao. Besides how hard is it 2 stop it? the offensive was out of steam.

The deaths of soviets sounds pretty good to me. I'm pretty sure the tens millions of people that suffered under Soviet occupation and communist rule would agree with that statement.

In that case, I believe you should leave this discussion. Your 2 dumb to talk about such things.

Hell countries "occupied" by Soviets post destalinization were not bad 2 live in. Most of them were already backward b4 WW2.

But even Stalinist country is far better than Nazi Germany. People like you should be beaten up imo. Unfourtenatly that isn't possible though

[FM_Von_Manstein]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

No Germany wouldn't. Lmao. Besides how hard is it 2 stop it? the offensive was out of steam.

Um no? The offensive was not out of steam. There were hundreds of Russian Divisions coming up against Manstein, had he not stopped the offensive it would have just kept rolling forwards and forced AGC and AGN to make strategic withdraws back into Poland in order to reorganize their lines.

[Crni vuk]

Hands down. Manstein did a lot to secure the frontline in the east and some of his offensives have been quite spectacular. Like the capture and fighting around Charkov. But fact is as well even if Hitler gave Manstein a free hand in all his operations Germany had no chance to win the war or its targets.

[FM_Von_Manstein]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

Hands down. Manstein did a lot to secure the frontline in the east and some of his offensives have been quite spectacular. Like the capture and fighting around Charkov. But fact is as well even if Hitler gave Manstein a free hand in all his operations Germany had no chance to win the war or its targets.

Probably not, but if Hitler didn't interfere with any strategic or tactical planning of any operation Germany would have won.

[Crni vuk]

please ... you cant believe that really. Won ? What would they have won ?

I see this many times mentioned as pseudo-historic idea without Hitlers mistakes (letz call it that) the Germans would have won.

Its a useless idea even hypotheticaly cause actualy the only way for Germany to win WW2 was ... to never start it. Or letz better say never elect Hitler. As stupid it sounds but thats how it is.

If you think about it what kind of goals Hitler had and the propaganda / targets of the Nazi Party its clear the war would have never stoped cause they would never have achied any of the targets. Killing all Jews and Communists ? Or wining against the Sovietunion, America and ... rest of the world ? You know Herman Goering had already plans for a occupation of Palestina and Israel ... When would they have stoped fighting. When would Germany have tried really to do any truce ? Fact is the financial situation would not have allowed the third Reich to exist without war. Even before 1938 the German gouvernemt was pretty much bankrupt. They would not have been able to pay all their credits back in 1939 which would have caused a major inflation. Almost everything the Nazis did was on credit. All the buildings and stuff they did for the population. Hence why war was needed. With every conquered nation one of the first things the German Bank did was to aquire all finances of the occupied nation. One example. When they had troops deployed somewhere as occuping force they would usualy pay those soldiers in the local currency. That way not the German military / gouvernemt was paying them but the population of the occupied terrirtory.

There is actualy no question if or if not Germany would have loost. The question is more about the time they would have loost. Even if Hitler would not have been involved in the military all they would have achied eventualy would been a delay in defeat.

[FM_Von_Manstein]

I think you misunderstood me... Obviously war was necessary, as Germany needed more natural resources and $. But Hitler hampered the war by making stupid decisions. The BoB for one was pointless, it accomplished nothing but killing Germany's best pilots. Sending more aid and troops to Africa would have been much more logical. Germany needed oil badly and the capture of the Middle East and Persia would have done that, and created a 2nd front for the USSR. Turkey could have also been forced into the axis powers if they were surrounded. They were already economic partners with Germany, and some Turks believed it would be wise to join the Axis powers but many feared Anglo-Soviet invasion.

[robi120]

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

The deaths of soviets sounds pretty good to me. I'm pretty sure the tens millions of people that suffered under Soviet occupation and communist rule would agree with that statement.

Today i looked at the forums and fuond this post.I simply cannot belive it.I belive FM_Von_Manstein should be banned.Insulting onather nation.I mean what horible person are you ,FM_Von_Manstein.I m not russian,but still ,I m offended too.

Just imagne that you are dead and I came at your grave and said "The death of FM_Von_Masterin sound pretty good for me."

I belive every person of this world should be respected,exept if he was a killer.

Hitler and Stalin cannot compare.Hitler will always be rememberd as a scum,while Stailn as a hero who won WW2

[Zeke Wolff]

Robi120,

I don´t believe in instants bans etc since I prefer to give everyone a second chance. However, I am keeping an eye out for any further insults towards other in this thread, no matter if they are made about other nations or other forum users and I´ve written warnings to offending forum users already. But please, in the future, when and if you feel insulted/offended by something another user has written, please contact me, or Nike_it, by PMs and tell us about it instead of writing it in the forums.

In the above case, FM_Von_Manstein has been told to behave or...

//Zeke Wolff, Moderator.

[FM_Von_Manstein]

Originally Posted by robi120

Today i looked at the forums and fuond this post.I simply cannot belive it.I belive FM_Von_Manstein should be banned.Insulting onather nation.I mean what horible person are you ,FM_Von_Manstein.I m not russian,but still ,I m offended too.

Just imagne that you are dead and I came at your grave and said "The death of FM_Von_Masterin sound pretty good for me."

I belive every person of this world should be respected,exept if he was a killer.

Hitler and Stalin cannot compare.Hitler will always be rememberd as a scum,while Stailn as a hero who won WW2

LOL! Kid Stalin murdered +30 million of his own people. They're both ridiculously evil. And Soviets doesn't necessarily mean Russian. It's like Nazis. Not all Germans believed in Nazism, not all Russians were believed in Soviet ideology. If you knew anything about the suffering of the people in the Warsaw pact countries you'd probably dislike Soviets too.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

I think you misunderstood me... Obviously war was necessary, as Germany needed more natural resources and $. But Hitler hampered the war by making stupid decisions. The BoB for one was pointless, it accomplished nothing but killing Germany's best pilots. Sending more aid and troops to Africa would have been much more logical. Germany needed oil badly and the capture of the Middle East and Persia would have done that, and created a 2nd front for the USSR. Turkey could have also been forced into the axis powers if they were surrounded. They were already economic partners with Germany, and some Turks believed it would be wise to join the Axis powers but many feared Anglo-Soviet invasion.

There is no point to debate the motivations of the war beeing needed as it was lead mainly by agressions and most of the politic was focused around confrontation. This is evident by the politics from Nazi members like Ribbentropp who was in charge regarding foreign affairs and the many different official or inofficial comments by Hitler himself and Nazi members.

War was not necessary. Only Hitler and his Nazi members made it necessary due to their stupid economical decisions and twised political ideas that the German population needed desperately "room in the east" at all cost to survive. But as said there is absolutely no way how Germany could have achieved its goals with the war and military force. Like I mentioned the only way how germany could have prevented a defeat is simply not to start the war at all and living in a peacefull coexistance with its neigbours. But that would have required sane politicans.

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

LOL! Kid Stalin murdered +30 million of his own people. They're both ridiculously evil. And Soviets doesn't necessarily mean Russian. It's like Nazis. Not all Germans believed in Nazism, not all Russians were believed in Soviet ideology. If you knew anything about the suffering of the people in the Warsaw pact countries you'd probably dislike Soviets too.

You dont really choose your words very carefully dont you?

It is very easy comparing the Nazi party with the Soviet system from outside. But historicaly there is more to it then just that. But we should leave it to that as that part alone can fill books of arguments and informations.

Fact is that the Sovietunion and its citizens have a different meaning compared to the simple Nazi for example. Hence why I think its a gross generalisation if you say something like "killing of soviets sounds good". It should also not really be that advicable to say the same for nazis. There is no black vs white. Many people which feelt as part of the Nazi or Soviet culture cant be simply idealised or classified. John Rabe or Oscar Schindler just to name some examples.